Nagasu ready for senior international debut...

[feraina]

Michelle was 14 at 1995 Nationals. How she could be called a failure for not winning it is beyond my comprehension. I think people expected Caroline Zhang to win Nationals 2008, but she is not considered a failure because she didn't.

I was rooting for Michelle in 1995, and Caroline in 2008. Sure, it was a little disappointing they didn't do better, but certainly not failures to me.

Anyway, Michelle came back very strong the next season, so maybe the same will happen to Caroline. I think having the spotlight taken away for a bit was/is a good thing, I hope it motivated Caroline to work really hard on her weaknesses in the off-season. There will be no TV coverage of SC or TEB, and not even GPF if she makes it, so she should have some space to just train hard and show what she's got without having to worry too much about media spotlight and fans' expectations.

The thread is supposed to be about Mirai Nagasu, isn't it? I hope she will get her ankle rested and taken care of, and I hope she will work on getting full rotations on her jumps. She should be pleased that she debuted to relatively high PCS, and that she fought through both of her programs with heart. If she can fix her rotation problems, she's still got great potential to score really high.

 

[fairly4]

Part of the reason,I thought it was handed to her at nationals was because she skated like a 14 year old (which is what she should do). Not like a older skater like Michelle skated like an older women instead of skating like a 15 year old.
To me Mirai still skates like a teenager (15)nothing wrong with that.However if she wants to win or medal this year, she is going to have to skate "older" so to speak not younger.

 

[bekalc]

Part of the reason,I thought it was handed to her at nationals was because she skated like a 14 year old (which is what she should do). Not like a older skater like Michelle skated like an older women instead of skating like a 15 year old.
To me Mirai still skates like a teenager (15)nothing wrong with that.However if she wants to win or medal this year, she is going to have to skate "older" so to speak not younger.

I don't think the issue was that Michelle skated like a 14 year old so to speak. It's more IMO that Michelle just didn't have a lot of artistry at that time.. Mirai, artistically I think was better at 14 than Michelle was... Michelle on the other hand had stronger jumps. Plus Bobek was great that year.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Michelle didn't have stronger jumps at 14 than Mirai did. None of her technical elements were better, in fact.

 

[chuckm]

At 13, Michelle Kwan WON Junior Worlds and finished 8th at Senior Worlds. At 14, she was 4th at Senior Worlds, and she won Senior Worlds at 15. I don't see how she can be considered not as good a jumper as Mirai.

 

[bekalc]

At 13, Michelle Kwan WON Junior Worlds and finished 8th at Senior Worlds. At 14, she was 4th at Senior Worlds, and she won Senior Worlds at 15. I don't see how she can be considered not as good a jumper as Mirai.

I said that Michelle was a stronger jumper than Mirai but I like Mirai better artistically at 14. Michelle didn't have exactly tons of personality at 14 she was all about jumps then and it's a major reason why Michelle didn't win a world medal at 14 even though everyone else was falling all over the place there.

That's not a bad thing, I'll actually go with the stronger jumper when I'm placing my bets because artistry is something that can be improved as they get older... Besides it's not like Mirai had a whole lot of competition at last year's Nationals. Everyone was really young and green there. Or falling all over the place.

Michelle didn't have stronger jumps at 14 than Mirai did. None of her technical elements were better, in fact.

Well it's hard to know because cheated jumps weren't penalized under 6,0. Maybe Michelle would have had jumps downgraded. But it's hard for me to look at Mirai as this great and awesome jumper when she repeatedly gets her jumps downgraded at competition after competition.

I wouldn't call Michelle a great jumper. She wasn't and this isn't just about 3/3's. Yu-na Kim is a great jumper, Irina is a great jumper, Mao is a great jumper, so was Midori. Miki too.

Michelle was a competetent/consistent jumper. (Which is nothing to snuff at) Because a lot of the great jumpers aren't really consistent. (It's just that their jumps are spectacular when they are done right) Until Mirai gets the majority of her jumps ratififed, I can't really look at them as competent or consistent.

 

[Bennett]

Well, I am sorry that Mirai had so many URs. But it's good that she didn't get edge calls. I hope that she recovers from her injury and regain stamina to do these demanding programs. I heard that her LP has very difficult straight line steps. Hope that she does it well next times and get a better level.

 

[AwesomeIce]

Well, I guess little miss Mirai wasn't as "ready" as she thought she was. She really should have sat out her exhibitions and unimportant competitions this summer/fall and rested her ankle if it really was that bad. I'm seeing shades of Bobek and the Nutcracker tour here.

 

[feraina]

Michelle was a competetent/consistent jumper. (Which is nothing to snuff at) Because a lot of the great jumpers aren't really consistent. (It's just that their jumps are spectacular when they are done right)

Oh, yes, how about Julia's Sebestyen's 3Z and 3F? Especially 3Z. A thing of beauty! If only she could land the easier jumps more consistently...

 

[Andalusia]

Michelle didn't have stronger jumps at 14 than Mirai did. None of her technical elements were better, in fact.

I'll echo what others have said. There's no way Mirai has/had better jumps than Michelle, this year or last. Even when she was on a winning streak last season, Mirai was susceptible to URs and her landings were shaky every now and then.

And I've always thought Michelle was a great jumper. Sure, she never did the hardest 3-3s and she didn't get the most height but her jumps always took off and landed as smooth as butter. I've hardly ever noticed her underrotating, she always got the rotations just right. Everything about her technique was just right (there are differing camps as to whether she flutzed or not). When she was younger, she used to jump even higher.

Strangely enough, Rachael Flatt's jumps remind me a bit of Michelle's. No noticeable flaws (aside from Rachael's possible flutz) and everything is just about right, no more, no less.

 

[fairly4]

I think Mirai, news media and the fans are using Mirais (so-called injury) as an excuse of why she didn't skate so well and got so many urs called.
Why I think it is a so-called excuse -1 She commented she got a Sore ankle after skating in a Show IN JULY. Mirai pulled out of Goldwest due to that same sore ankle. However, She Could Skated in A Show in October (first week) now it is Skate America and she didn't skate well. Well maybe it its because her Underrotations was Overlooked at Nationals And In the Juniors ranks.
Mirai to me would be better off stating her puberty is affecting her skating. Why it is the truth and the most natural thing in the world.

 

[demarinis5]

At 13, Michelle Kwan WON Junior Worlds and finished 8th at Senior Worlds. At 14, she was 4th at Senior Worlds, and she won Senior Worlds at 15. I don't see how she can be considered not as good a jumper as Mirai.

Thank you. I don't know how Michelle got dragged into yet another thread. The Kween's record speaks for itself, nuff said.

 

[Blades of Passion]

At 13, Michelle Kwan WON Junior Worlds and finished 8th at Senior Worlds. At 14, she was 4th at Senior Worlds, and she won Senior Worlds at 15. I don't see how she can be considered not as good a jumper as Mirai.

I'm not sure how this speaks specifically to the case of who was the better jumper at 14 years old.

When I said that Mirai was just as good or better than Michelle on every technical element at 14, that's exactly what I meant. Only comparing them at 14 years old.

If you compare Mirai's best (2008 Nationals) to Michelle's best (1995 Worlds) when they were 14, Mirai had more distance on her jumps and the Triple-Triple. Someone said Michelle's landings were better, but I don't think it's too much of a difference there - I'd say Michelle was only a little better at best in that area. When she was 14 most of her landings didn't have any great amount of flow.

On the other tech elements outside of the jumps, Mirai is clearly stronger. The spins are no contest and Michelle's Spiral at that age hadn't reached its full potential. For footwork I think you have to put Mirai ahead too (although this partially may be because of how CoP makes skaters focus more on that element now).

The thing about Michelle is that she had a literally MAGIC transformation her next season. I've never seen anyone improve so much in 1 year. That was really stunning.

Sadly, I don't think Mirai is going to improve this season from where she was last year. That's not really bad, though, because she was excellent last year and has plenty of time to grow.

 

[ChrisH]

Performing to a medley of Charlie Chaplin tunes, U.S. champion Mirai Nagasu proved she could think on her feet when she improvised a triple flip-double toe loop combination after a flawed landing on her opening triple Lutz cut her planned combo short.

"The mistake cost me points, and I wanted to get them back," the 15-year-old said. "I started thinking about how to get [the combination] with my second jump, and after I landed the flip, I just did it."

Nagasu's coach, Charlene Wong, revealed yesterday that the skater has been coping with an injury.

"Mirai and her parents consulted a doctor, and it was decided she would stay on the ice as much as possible but abstain from moves that aggravate her right ankle," Wong said. "This week, it hasn't been a big problem."

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081026&content_id=54227&vkey=ice_news

U.S. champion Mirai Nagasu, who entered Skate America troubled by both a growth spurt and a sore right ankle, placed seventh in the long program and fifth overall, after several of the jumps in her free skate were judged under rotated.

"I'm really disappointed a lot of my jumps were downgraded," the 15-year-old said. "Still, I couldn't do my jumps before I got here, and I was excited to do them in the [competition] practices. I think maybe I did too many. Hopefully, I can get that under control. I want to redeem myself at NHK Trophy."

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081026&content_id=54428&vkey=ice_news

 

[lcd]

I'm more an optimist on her ability to mature and progress... health is essential.

Rachael's jumping actually kind of reminds me of ... Elaine Zayak... including the tilt lean of some of the landings and sometimes not fully engaged knee with the free leg on landings. The similarity of smiles may be fooling me a bit...

 

[AdamFan]

I may be wrong, but from what I've read, it sounds like Mirai is injured and puberty has played a role. However, I believe Mirai injured her ankle in June/July and skated in her shows thinking that her ankle would get better. It sounds like she has been going to doctors recently and was really just going for her triples at Skate America for the first time in a while. At this point, I think Mirai's ankle is far more than a simple 'sprain.' I believe it is either a much more severe sprain (a level 2 or 3...a Kerri Strug type sprain) or perhaps a stress fracture. Mirai and her coach have not said that the injury was 'just a sprain' in any interviews. Perhaps it started as something that seemed like shin splits or a sprain, but is now worse. Mirai didn't have her usual confidence when she skated. It didn't look like she was worried about underrotating. She wasn't prepared for the competition and was really trying to concentrate.

Going forward, I think Mirai needs to make a bunch of crucial decisions.

1. I think she should withdraw from the NHK Trophy. Yes, she's very popular in Japan and she could potentially gain endorsements over there, but she won't if she doesn't skate well. She needs to do a lot of work between now and then, but she also needs to rest her ankle. If Mirai wants to go to Worlds, she should take time off the ice. With a few weeks off she could stay in shape, work on conditioning, rest and do intense physical therapy on her ankle. She is not going to make the GPF at this point. Mirai could take up to a month off the ice and then prepare for Nationals and at least be healthy when she works on making corrections.

2. I'm not sure what off-ice training Mirai does, but she's never mentioned a personal trainer in her interviews. Mirai appears flexible and agile, but not necessarily strong in her lower back, core, thighs and arms. If she does more off-ice like Caroline is doing, it may be easier to get more height and rotation on her jumps.

3. She needs to work with a jump specialist. Charlene Wong admitted in her interview with ManleyWoman that she never solidified her double technique at a young age and thus struggled with triples. Her other main student, Amber Corwin, also was known for consistently underrotating her jumps. Spending some time with a Rafael Artunian, Scott Williams, Audrey Weissiger or Kathy Casey could be extremely helpful to Mirai.

That is what I would do if I was Mirai's coach.

 

[AwesomeIce]

Or maybe the ankle thing was just an excuse for a poor performance. It is easier to say that you are injured than it is to admit that your jumps aren't so easy once you've grown and that your technique isn't so great.

 

[Wrlmy]

That's little harsh. Mirai and Wong have mentioned having to readjust to new height, and it was already known prior to SA that she was injured.

 

[rosee]

3. She needs to work with a jump specialist. Charlene Wong admitted in her interview with ManleyWoman that she never solidified her double technique at a young age and thus struggled with triples.

Didn't she also said that she's not really the one helping Mirai with her jumps?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I never argue over a fan's personal taste, but I do raise an eyebrow if I believe a skater got what he deserved.

Did anyone check out Mirai's prerotations on her loop jumps?