New ISU rule changes: "Flutzing" addressed

[Zuranthium]

Well an awful lot of true lutz jumpers going into the jump on a shallow inside edge, check the arms and lean into a strong back outside edge in preparation for the pick in...would you call that starting out ont he wrong edge?

Ant

Of course not, because they are actually on the outside edge when they jump. Starting on an inside edge and trying to switch over to the outside, but only getting to a flat, would be a Flutz to me.

Sasha Cohen basically does what you're describing on her Flips (just the other way around)...she enters on a slight outside edge and then switches over to an inside as she jumps. It's basically achieving the same thing as people who Lip...rolling from one edge to another to generate extra momentum (or too steady yourself from the curve). However, since she IS on the inside edge when she jumps you can't knock it.

~Z

 

[carolinefan177]

That's not really a lip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-uTQhYdNUA

 

[Mathman]

Hi, Carolinefan177, welcome to Golden Skate, and thanks for posting. :agree:

 

[satorare]

I just watched Mao's exhibition at Chukyo University.
Her "flutz" is getting very close to a lutz.
Someone will upload to Youtube. Please check.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Make it legal with a base value of 2. That's the only answer. It aint going away.

True 3lutzes should get a base value of 9 and + GoEs accordingly

Skaters who are flutzers and also point conscious would get busy and come back with a proper lutz next season

It's not a difficult jump, but it does take effort.Most flutzers are just plain lazy

Joe

 

[Zuranthium]

LOL, you really are crazy.

~Z

 

[Gorgeous Skater]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-uTQhYdNUA

thanks,nope,Yu Na KIM is a really LIP skater.

 

[Zuranthium]

Did you not see the video posted by muzabee? Yu-Na can clearly do a proper Flip. Perhaps sometimes she switches over to the flat or a VERY slight outside edge. Who cares. Her "LIP" gets more height, distance, rotation, and flow-out than everyone else's Flip. It's gorgeous.

The whole Flutz/Lip thing seems like such a fuss over nothing unless you can see the skater really pressing onto the opposing edge or drastically shifting their body weight.

EDIT: Also, should we now start becoming mad about the Toeloop as well? It's supposed to be from an outside edge but people sometimes do it from the flat or a very slight inside edge.

~Z

 

[springgarden]

It is very interesting.
I think Kim's flip is a really "LIP",not FLIP.
A lot of skaters belong to one of Flutz or Lip.


Lip

Shizuka Arakawa,Miki Ando,Kimmie Meissner,Yu Na Kim,Sarah Meier,Alissa Czisny...



Flutz

Sasha Cohen,Michelle Kwan,Mao Asada,Sarah Hughes,Fumie Suguri,Caroline Zhang...



Lutz and Flip both okay.

Carolina Kostner and Joannie Rochette.

 

[Justlooking]

I just watched Mao's exhibition at Chukyo University.
Her "flutz" is getting very close to a lutz.
Someone will upload to Youtube. Please check.

Some excerpts :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FKdKaY4z4

 

[kerklandas]

It is very interesting.
I think Kim's flip is a really "LIP",not FLIP.
A lot of skaters belong to one of Flutz or Lip.


Lip

Shizuka Arakawa,Miki Ando,Kimmie Meissner,Yu Na Kim,Sarah Meier,Alissa Czisny...



Flutz

Sasha Cohen,Michelle Kwan,Mao Asada,Sarah Hughes,Fumie Suguri,Caroline Zhang...



Lutz and Flip both okay.

Carolina Kostner and Joannie Rochette.

Excuse me? Are you blind? Kim got the highest GOE for her 3Flip-3Toeloop combo at the Tokyo world which is +2 twice (short and free each). Also in short program, Kim's 3lutz got +1.71 GOE besides Kostner got +0.71 and Rochette got -1.00 for their 3lutz indeed.
Check the statistic before say something.

 

[springgarden]

Excuse me? Are you blind? Kim got the highest GOE for her 3Flip-3Toeloop combo at the Tokyo world which is +2 twice (short and free each). Also in short program, Kim's 3lutz got +1.71 GOE besides Kostner got +0.71 and Rochette got -1.00 for their 3lutz indeed.
Check the statistic before say something.

Of course, it is a fixed race.

Her point is too high!
Because the reason is because a sponsor had Korea companies.

Her jumps 3"LIP"-3T combo,no 3Flip-3T combo.
Kimmie should have become the third place.

Are you ok?
You are a good-natured person

 

[kerklandas]

Of course, it is a fixed race.

Her point is too high!
Because the reason is because a sponsor had Korea companies.

Her jumps 3"LIP"-3T combo,no 3Flip-3T combo.
Kimmie should have become the third place.

Are you ok?
You are a good-natured person

Holy crap!
You just live in lala land alone.

 

[boggartlaura]

Emily Hughes also has both a true flip and lutz.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Emily Hughes also has both a true flip and lutz.

Yes, but unfortunately, fans who dislike Emily will she underrotates, but they will say that about every skater they dislike. Won't they?

Joe

 

[springgarden]

Holy crap!
You just live in lala land alone.

Hi!How are you a good-LIPed person.
How much was used?
Did you satisfy the third place?

I am looking forward to 2a of three times in her FP
Does she turn back to the junior?

Emily Hughes also has both a true flip and lutz.

Exactly!
I forgot her name.
Emily has both a really flip and lutz,too!

 

[Zuranthium]

Hi, welcome to the boards. Your English is a little shaky.

I am looking forward to 2a of three times in her FP

Me too! She has a beautiful Double Axel.

~Z

 

[Zuranthium]

Also, this is the exact rule about the Flutz/Lip:

"In obvious cases of starting from the wrong edge the Technical Panel will indicate this error to the Judges who must reduce their GOE accordingly."

Yu-Na is definiely not going to take any deductions on her Flip.

I don't like the rule itself, however, as someone who falls on a Flutz will receive the same amount of points as someone who falls on a true Lutz. The tech caller should make the deduction and the the GOEs should be all about the quality of the jump itself.

~Z

 

[gio]

Julia "Granny" Sebestyen has both a true 3lutz and 3flip. Hasn't she?
I'm sure Caro Kostner, Emily Hughes and Joannie Rochette have too. Sarah Meir does lip? I think she has both the jumps.
Vikka and Sokolova lip, Slutskaya flutzes. On the other hand Butyrskaya had a true flip and lutz.
About Michelle Kwan she didn't always flutz. Sometimes she did true lutzes, a light outside edge though.

 

[gio]

Some excerpts :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FKdKaY4z4

Seems she is one of those skaters who are working hard trying to fix her Lutz. :agree: The flutz came in really in the last fraction of the second and it was on the flat edge. Hope I did see well. She is improving.
I won't be surprised if next season or in about two seasons she will hit a true Lutz.