- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
https://youtu.be/FD_f_k2iQtY
Great Alexia Paganini! This girl deserves +5 GOE!!!
Great Alexia Paganini! This girl deserves +5 GOE!!!
New ISU rules for the upcoming season
- Thread starter Lunalovesskating
- Start date
In a lot of examples I've seen bashed as being "full blade" the blade is not actually on the ice, it merely drops... because they are rotating on the toe-pick and using the lower part of the blade (which is not illegal), however a lot of the times it looks like it's on the ice.
ISU keeps changing rules more frequently and drastically after Pyeongchang as if they are trying to get results they want. I'm losing interests especially in singles. Numbers for base values and GOE are 100% arbitrary with no scientific basis. Same competitions could give completely different results depending on scoring settings. Lysacek would never have won gold with his 3A that almost looked like 3S in Vancouver if the prerotation rule for next season had been applied.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
Sounds right on the intentions. :thumbsup:
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
The upper part of blade is still a blade assist.
It's very hard to prerotate a lot without blade assistance. If you freeze the screen /screenshot exactly at the quater mark on any severe prerotate (aliev, mroz) then you will at least half the blade on the ice. Sometimes more. Same with shoma uno.
Trust me, I've seen the ice Mark's where you see the toe pick then see the scratch of the blade vs a pure pick.
Again, dropping the blade close to the ice and rotating on toe pick with blade close to the ice doesn't constitute using the blade or taking off the blade with the blade on the ice. I've slow motioned Aliev's lutz, and that's what he does.
Who decided it was illegal? Who decided 180 degrees PR was illegal?
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Again, dropping the blade close to the ice and rotating on toe pick with blade close to the ice doesn't constitute using the blade or taking off the blade with the blade on the ice. I've slow motioned Aliev's lutz, and that's what he does.
Who decided it was illegal? Who decided 180 degrees PR was illegal?
But the top 1/3 of his blade actually touches the ice. Look at his toepick at the quater. The top part of his toepick is off the ice but his bottom part isnt. That's the biggest giveaway for blade assist.
I'm not even on the topic of prerotation- but essentially less is better and should get higher goe. I'm not going to argue the degrees where it becomes bad, but I do think boyang jin lutz should get a lot more than aliev
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
That is very interesting. I always assumed that it would be the toe-pick jumps where timing would be the more delicate. It seems like timing the pick-in with rotation of the upper body would require great precision with no wiggle room for error. (?)
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
It’s to do with all sorts of stuff, the tilt, the push from the bend and the landing foot being the take off foot and everything else that makes the loop a pesky little bugger to time. Plenty of skaters train double or triple loops by putting a single in front of them for timing them. They need that perfect swish to get up properly. You also can’t really cheat it because it already rotates on the ice so it’s very tricky to even get the rotations you need in if you don’t get it all perfect.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
Laybackrelaxspinfast, by how many degrees does Alyona pre-rotate her lutz according to you?
https://youtu.be/7WnNk-yl-5I
https://youtu.be/7WnNk-yl-5I
All jumps take off from one leg, though.
After all, it's not like you push yourself off your skating leg on toe jumps, you just travel across the ice on it and then use the picking leg to vault yourself up, so the upwards force comes entirely from that picking leg.Also, by your logic, Salchow would be considered more difficult as Flip and Lutz as well, since it's also an edge jump that takes of 'purely' from one leg (going by your definition of 'one leg').
For what it's worth, when I first checked out the base values for the different jumps (ranging from singles to quads), I always assumed the order was based on the amount of rotation each jump has in the air. The more rotation has to be completed in the air, the higher the BV of a jump.
Single Toe and Sal by the very nature of their take-offs usually end up having about 180° in the air, it can be more, depending on your technique. Flip and Lutz ideally would have closer to 360° (Lutz having even higher BV because of the added difficulty of its counter-rotation). The Loop is kinda in-between, since its take-off is somewhat pre-rotated similar to the Sal, but less so.
All of this was just based on my observations of these jumps and also my own experience when learning them.
Of course, that was before I saw people pre-rotate their Flips and Lutzes by so much, that they pretty much contradicted all of my assumptions (on the other side, there's also a few skaters who manage to pre-rotate their Toes by so little, that they actually manage to take off more or less backwards, so there's the other extreme as well).
This is also the reason why I always felt pre-rotation on Flip and Lutz should be penalised, because I always felt like it doesn't deserve the higher BV (which in my mind was a reward for more rotation completed in the air).
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
Not much as far as I can see from that video. Why? A lot of her tech was taught at her previous school so I’m not too surprised about it being different to a lot of the TT girls. She could go some way to working on the edge that's for sure. I mean she has been, but with that has come some pre-rotation when she doesn’t hit it right. She either seems to be doing a flat edge or correct edge with pre-rotation. I think she will get it though. But she is a very complete skater with a few niggly flaws that could be easily fixed if they were so inclined to work on them. I could be a little bias here though as she is one of my favourites. :agree:
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
She is one of my favorites too.
But still how many degrees does she pre-rotate? I see that is much less than Trusova and Shcherbakova for sure.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
Had to do a bit of searching to remember where I first saw this video. I think it illustrates the point made a few pages ago about in air rotation being sacrificed in the toe jumps which makes them easier. I really do hope the ISU judges apply the new rules because the difference is insane.
https://youtu.be/JJeWqOoHgl8
https://youtu.be/JJeWqOoHgl8
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
She actually came with a different technique on the lutz, it can be seen in her first year with Eteri. It was fixed into her current one in her current team. Her edge has also has improved significantly during her time with her current team.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
She is one of my favorites too.
But still how many degrees does she pre-rotate? I see that is much less than Trusova and Shcherbakova for sure.
Just from this video I would take a guess at saying she leaves the ice at about 90 degrees because she is sideways when both feet are up. I do think they are going to need some good quality slow motion cameras to check this if they want to commit to it though.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
Yes they have done quite a bit of work on her edge compared to how it use to be. Still room for improvement but we can definitely see progress! :agree:
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
Which upcoming season are we talking about?!
sad joke I know.
I miss skating so much
Maybe next year we are going to see Paganini receiving +5 GOE on her lutz.
I have to correct you. anna will not got -3 but if the new full blade rule applied correctly 0, or +1 Goe. Why? she gets +1 goe for hard transition,
+1 for arms, +1 for lenght/hight, +1 for eforttless throughout. so its +4 - 3 = +1.
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