Nicole Rajicova: Getting Up again

[moonvine]

I'm not sure that every country that has skaters has a "SafeSport" equivalent.

No, I did mean the US

 

[LiamForeman]

Agreed. If either one had actually landed a quad -- even in practice -- I have to believe the skating world would have heard about it.

As far as I can remember, the only time Tonya tried a quad was for that Texaco commercial. Per Tonya, so take it with a grain of salt.

As for Midori, she lost her 1985 season because of a broken leg when attempting 4toe in practice.

 

[LoulouVi]

I just watched Gracie's piece, I wasn't aware. My mind went to Asada, I guest it's because I had just seen her silver medal Olympic free skate, and I had thought that was probably the thinniest I had ever seen her.
Does anyone know if her rating habits were ever brought up?

 

[theblade]

Just have to pipe in here. A lot of the "nutrition experts" are still using old food-pyramid and government-lobbied sources for nutritional information. However, a *lot* of athletes have auto-immune disorders (this is a wide spectrum) and different body types. This number is, I believe, on the upswing.

For example: we still hear about grain food groups being pushed as a source of energy. Frankly, not all body types can support excess energy calories gained from grain-based foods. For me, when I was young, a protein and vegetable-based diet with fewer grains would have been a revelation. When I see my family member in the sport getting one-size-fits-all nutrition advice from people presented as experts, it's a huge problem. This advice does not work, and can make auto-immune and weight issues worse. Which doesn't help a skater that needs muscle and calories from energy sources and not nutrients that are not processed at all well in the body. So when I hear advice and make a few observations about what does and doesn't work, I can be overrided because I'm not an "expert." As if my research into optimal energy calories and lived experience doesnt matter. We have more information now - a lot of it is not promoted because it's not profitable to corporations.

GRRRRRRRR. /rant over

 

[moonvine]

Just have to pipe in here. A lot of the "nutrition experts" are still using old food-pyramid and government-lobbied sources for nutritional information. However, a *lot* of athletes have auto-immune disorders (this is a wide spectrum) and different body types. This number is, I believe, on the upswing.

For example: we still hear about grain food groups being pushed as a source of energy. Frankly, not all body types can support excess energy calories gained from grain-based foods. For me, when I was young, a protein and vegetable-based diet with fewer grains would have been a revelation. When I see my family member in the sport getting one-size-fits-all nutrition advice from people presented as experts, it's a huge problem. This advice does not work, and can make auto-immune and weight issues worse. Which doesn't help a skater that needs muscle and calories from energy sources and not nutrients that are not processed at all well in the body. So when I hear advice and make a few observations about what does and doesn't work, I can be overrided because I'm not an "expert." As if my research into optimal energy calories and lived experience doesnt matter. We have more information now - a lot of it is not promoted because it's not profitable to corporations.

GRRRRRRRR. /rant over

That’s so weird. I thought everything was high protein low carb these days. Although if you look back to Michael Phelps (swimmer) he was eating 10,000-15,000 calories per day and a lot of it was carbs. But he was special in many ways.

 

[icewhite]

Just have to pipe in here. A lot of the "nutrition experts" are still using old food-pyramid and government-lobbied sources for nutritional information. However, a *lot* of athletes have auto-immune disorders (this is a wide spectrum) and different body types. This number is, I believe, on the upswing.

For example: we still hear about grain food groups being pushed as a source of energy. Frankly, not all body types can support excess energy calories gained from grain-based foods. For me, when I was young, a protein and vegetable-based diet with fewer grains would have been a revelation. When I see my family member in the sport getting one-size-fits-all nutrition advice from people presented as experts, it's a huge problem. This advice does not work, and can make auto-immune and weight issues worse. Which doesn't help a skater that needs muscle and calories from energy sources and not nutrients that are not processed at all well in the body. So when I hear advice and make a few observations about what does and doesn't work, I can be overrided because I'm not an "expert." As if my research into optimal energy calories and lived experience doesnt matter. We have more information now - a lot of it is not promoted because it's not profitable to corporations.

GRRRRRRRR. /rant over

I don't have access to real elite skaters, so I only know what I have read in interviews etc. But what I do read in those is not exactly that many of them follow that pyramid. Actually most seem to stay away from anything other than vegetables and an occasional protein source. A lot of calories are taken in by protein shakes or other drinks with supplements.
And people might eat normally, but be bulimic, we won't see any of that.
There are so many ways of bad nutrition and eating disorders. I definitely get the feeling that real nutrition knowledge and adequate supervision is scarce and myths, believes, control for control's sake etc. are still very common.

I agree that nutrition is actually a very individual thing. How each body works and what it needs is still very much in baby shoes. People will say "this is the way to the light" and promote all kinds of trends and believes like they work for everyone. It really is complicated and we lack a lot of research. But while it is very complicated on the one hand it would be good if some basic knowledge was followed. For instance if people realized that elite skaters better leave the chocolate bar alone instead of eating that, but then shying away from the bowl of lentils or the cooked fish.

 

[RobinA]

I read the book, and I remember the apple bit very well. Not so much the elephant bit but that's probably because I don't have either a nasty or a good memory of elephants specifically (although they're interesting animals). I do remember the legend or myth of the blind people who give very different descriptions of elephants because they are touching different parts, but that is neither here nor there. Sorry, this thread is about eating disorders and that's something really horrible as @WednesdayMarch illustrates very clearly.

What is strange to me, is that in figure skating in the past we expected the women to have strong muscled legs to be able to jump (and thankfully Kaori Sakamoto still shows that) and now we expect them to have thin sticks for legs (my expression) and I really don't get how that happened. Because I think that change made the eating disorders so much more 'natural'.

The reason that they have to be slimmer now is because of the increased revolutions required to even be competitive. Distance from the axis is the death of revolutions. Hence the eating disorders and puberty blockers. Jason Brown just lost to a splatfest that included so-so skating in between splats because he doesn't do a quad. Nothing against Malinin, he's going to be great, but he was a mess in the LP.

 

[noskates]

I haven't read this entire thread for a few days so this may have already been mentioned. Where are the parents in this problem? If I remember correctly, Gracie's father is a doctor? Did he not notice his daughter was under some kind of stress? We can blame the coaches but quite frankly their job is not to "parent" their students but teach them skating techniques. Yes there are coaches who undoubtedly pressure them to lose weight but again - where are the parents? I believe I would notice if my child wasn't eating, was losing weight, was under a lot of stress, was purging, etc. And yes many of them don't live with their parents anymore but you don't just send your kid off and have no contact with them. Just a thought.

 

[chuckm]

I haven't read this entire thread for a few days so this may have already been mentioned. Where are the parents in this problem? If I remember correctly, Gracie's father is a doctor? Did he not notice his daughter was under some kind of stress? We can blame the coaches but quite frankly their job is not to "parent" their students but teach them skating techniques. Yes there are coaches who undoubtedly pressure them to lose weight but again - where are the parents? I believe I would notice if my child wasn't eating, was losing weight, was under a lot of stress, was purging, etc. And yes many of them don't live with their parents anymore but you don't just send your kid off and have no contact with them. Just a thought.

At the time Gracie was stressed out, her father (an anaesthetist) was suspended because he was accused of using the drugs he dispensed on the job. Any possibility of reinstatement would have required him to undergo inpatient rehab. Gracie's mother, an RN, had to support the family, so there were money issues. It isn't that surprising that no one noticed that Gracie was in emotional and physical distress, especially since she wasn't living at home at the time.

 

[cmk]

Tonya did land quads in practice but never attempted it in competition. She did do a quad in the Texaco commercial (I think it was a loop, they showed the rotations but not the landing).