My late comments:
Firstly, kudos to Hockeyfan for the element-by-element analysis of Irina's scores. HF, when it comes to the COP, you're da BOMB!
Some people have said the COP is no different than the 6.0 system, that the judges inflate the component scores for their favorite skaters and deflate them for skaters they don't like.
People are of courese entitled to their opinion, but the way I see it is that if judges were doing the above, then there would be more variation among the component scores, not less. I don't believe that all 9 to 12 judges (or whatever) "like" and "dislike" the same skaters.
However, what I do think still influences the judges is reputation. That is, a skater who has been podium-level skaters at the world level for five or more years is going to get the benefit of the doubt if they have a wobbly night that skaters who've been hovering between 5th and 10th place for years won't get. In the best of all possible worlds, this would not happen. Skaters would come to each competition without any influencue from their reputations, positive or negative.
But the subjectivity will never be removed from figure skating judging, just as it will never be removed from judging for gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, and many other sports. Of course, reputation influenced judges under the 6.0 system just as much if not more as under the COP. So arguments that some of the Euro results were due to reputation because of the COP just don't hold water, IMO. Or should I say "don't hold ice"?
My feeling is to accept subjectivity in figure skating judging as an unavoidable part of the human element and to focus instead on getting the ISU to make sure judges understand the COP, can use it at the speeds necessary at competitions, and that they put it into practice at competitions; to continue to improve the COP; and put real teeth in the punishment of judges who are either found to be cheating or whose scores are consistently and unjustifiably skewed toward certain skaters. However, the former needs a significant change in an entrenched bureaucracy, which we all know moves as slow as Alaskan molasses. Unfortunately, the latter will take a couple of years in which to gather enough data on specific judges.
Also, I think people are overestimating how much the judges can skew the outcome of an event by inflating the component scores. If all the judges give a skater high component scores, then either all the judges are cheating, which is highly unlikely, or all the judges really see the quality of the skater's ability in those areas. If half the judges give significantly higher component scores than the other half, this could be a sign of favoritism, especially if the judges giving the high scores are all either western or eastern bloc judges and the skaters who benefit correspond to the judges bloc. However, blocs are not involved, such a situation indicates to me that the judges are thinking for themselves and not scoring based on reputation.
Finally, the COP is only in its second year, it has gone through numerous changes, and judges who have been scoring under the 6.0 system for years, if not decades, are having to grow a whole new part of their brains to both absorb the COP rules and think "COP" on the spot as they're judging.
I think the judging has very little, if anything, to do with the lower ratings for figure skating competitions. The live pro shows are suffering, too, and there's no judging there. I think five things have had the biggest influence on the decrease in the figure skating audience.
1. From 1994 until about '98 or later, figure skating had an enormous boom. Although the Tonya/Nancy scandal kicked it off, it was also a period during which there were both great eligible skaters and great pro skaters. I mean, real stars and superstars in both areas. As with almost any boom, it's followed by a bust or at least a decrease in interest. I think figure skating is simply going through the inevitable downturn after the inflated audiences of the mid-'90s.
2. Televised figure skating, at least in the US, is mostly on cable, which is a disadvantage any way you cut it. Even though most people have cable, no sport is as visible on cable as it is on network TV.
3. Figure skating on TV is almost exclusively eligible competitions. That means we see the same skaters doing the same programs all season long. During the days when pro skating was of high calibre technically and featured big names such as Kurt Browning, Kristi Yamaguchi, Torvill & Dean, and G&G some of the pros were able to do different programs for different competitions. Even if they didn't vary their programs, audiences got more variety simply because they saw eligible and pro programs. As much as I love the competitive element, if I watch every Grand Prix event plus the GPF, the three ISU events, US Nats, Euros, and Worlds, that means I'll mostly be seeing the same skaters repeatedly doing the same programs.
4. I feel the music choices and choreography most of the top singles skaters have been doing the last few years have become increasingly repetitive and conservative. By conservative I mean using warhorse music and standard choreography. Not all skaters, of course; in fact, the main reason I've been so thrilled with Jeff Buttle's LP this year was its unique creativity both musically and choreographically. Of course intense fans--like us
--love to watch and analyze the details of skaters' technique, looking for improvements in things that casual fans wouldn't notice, such as jump height. edging. or any number of things.
5. Sheer competition in terms of sports and entertainment, including the Internet. Ten years ago, most people had 20 or 30 TV stations if they had cable, and most of them were pretty bad. Today people have at least 100 or hundreds of cable channels and the quality has much improved, meaning that at least the shows don't look as if they were shot in somebody's garage. Again, it's not the loyal fans who are going elsewhere, but if you're a casual fan of figure skating, you simply have so many more choices of what to watch or do.
I might add a 5a saying that figure skating either doesn't really have a star that appeals to both fans and non-fans of figure skating. Michelle Kwan is, of course, a superstar for FS fans and she's achieved iconic status being on "The Simpsons," not to mention her incredible accumulation of championships, medals, and athletic awards. The latter, however, are mostly important to FS fans. But as far as the general public goes, I think Michelle's Q rating may not be as high as fans who love her like crazy might assume it is. (NOTE: This is NOT a knock on Michelle. I think she's absolutely wonderful and SHOULD be a national superstar.) For example, a couple of years ago Michelle had, IIRC, two nationally televised commercials, one for Ford and one for something else. Since then, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Michelle hasn't done any national ad campaigns. We know that advertising agencies measure the response to commercials with statistics that rival NASA's, and perhaps figure skating's biggest star for FS fans, and many, many casual and non-fans for sure, Michelle Kwan, isn't as big a star to the general public. Without a superstar, one that crosses the boundaries between fans and nonfans, second-tier sports such as figure skating, gymnastics, swimming, etc. lose fans.
However, my point is that I don't think judging has been the main cause of the loss of interest in figure skating. IMO, I don't give a hoot if it looks like the "best" skater won or not to the casual viewer. Most casual viewers can't tell the difference between a 3Lutz and a 3toe, or even between a double and triple jump, not to mention all the other elements that go into assessing a skater's performance. Of course I want to see the COP continue to improve and the judges' ability to use it correctly and fairly improve as well. But even if the ISU came up with the "perfect" judging system (nothing perfect when humans are involved), I don't think a single casual fan would return to watching figure skating unless a lot of other things changed in the sport, some of which I mentioned previously.
For me, the placements at Euros were right. As someone else said, it was about bad skating rather than bad judging. The judges and the judging system are easy scapegoats, and I say that being fully aware that cheating does occur. But if you really look at the COP, as many posters have, there are too many safety checks in place that make it almost impossible for judges to skew the scores so a very undeserving skater will win. In Hockeyfan's superb analysis, traveling on spins was noted as something that did not receive a deduction, which HF would have given. However, either traveling on spins is something the ISU needs to reinforce with judges as something that requires a deduction or else the judges who did not deduct for Irina's traveing were looking at the total spin, i.e., the speed, the position, the transition between positions, the creativity of the spin, etc. and felt that the positive aspects of these elements of the spin canceled out the traveling. It may not be everyone's opinion, but IMO, the judges could make an argument to justify their scoring.
I think that as time goes on, the judges' scores will reflect more of the things that posters like eagle-eyed Hockeyfan see--that's a compliment
--because the judges will think more "COP" and less "6.0." For me, the best thing about the COP compared to the 6.0 system is that with the COP, at least we can break it down and see where we disagree with the judges. With 6.0, if a skater we thought deserved an average of 5.5 got an average of 5.8 for technical or presentation, all we could do was scratch our heads or blame it on cheating.
So, if some/many people are upset at the way the COP worked on its first non-GP outing, I say better the COP have a bumpy ride during its "first time" than at the '06 Olympics. Yes, fans need to ride the ISU to keep improving all aspects of judging, but IMO, we also need to give the ISU a chance to work the bugs out and the judges a chance to keep all the requirements of the COP in their heads and compute them at the speed of figure skating.
Rgirl
P.S. I think Joe's question about the difference between a skater who skates with great speed as well as control versus someone who skates with equal speed but a lack of control is a very interesting one that addresses some of the issues in the COP. I hope he or someone uses the subject to start a thread on "The Edge."
is the only one of the U.S. ladies that has a fine one, IMHO.
