Olympics Results You Disagreed With

[#1Kerryfan]

As for Chan, that would be ironic given he made an art form out of winning medals despite wiping the ice with his butt.

There are competitions that I thought Chan didn't deserve medals in, but this thread is about the Olympics, and Hanyu's two falls should have disqualified him from the OGM. But since he is by far the most popular skater right now, many people think he deserved it. If another skater fell twice and got the OGM, people would be pissed. In fact, I may have even given Fernandez the gold over him in 2018.

 

[Ophelia]

I would have given the gold to Chan in 2014. A skater who falls twice should not get the Olympic Gold.

You're just biased against Hanyu because your arguments don't hold up. It wasn't like Chan skated cleanly. He had the door wide open and he fumbled, big time. The judges were ready to hand him that gold but he fell and popped his jumps.

Fernandez in 2018 could've gotten the OGM if he didn't mess up his jumps too.

 

[randomfan]

Reading these types of threads is oddly enjoyable, but all the similar ones we had in the past ended up turning into a bash-fest or several hilarious debates and got locked. Won't be too long until this thread also gets locked, so might as well enjoy it while it lasts .

 

[noskates]

It would be nice if in these threads we could be objective and answer the question posed - and not just root for your favorite skater.

I have a problem with anyone disparaging Patrick Chan. He was one of the very best male figure skaters for a good while. Please don't diminish his achievements because you like someone else better.

 

[seimei]

How coud you be "objective" ? when it comes to figure skating judging. It's just gonna be another bash thread. Off season with Covid19 makes people repetitive and aggresive.

 

[mrrice]

It would be nice if in these threads we could be objective and answer the question posed - and not just root for your favorite skater.

I have a problem with anyone disparaging Patrick Chan. He was one of the very best male figure skaters for a good while. Please don't diminish his achievements because you like someone else better.

Thank you for this comment. I have been a skating fan for years and I can tell you first hand that Patrick was a special skater. His edges were clean and deep and he was smooth as silk across the ice. Love Him

 

[noskates]

How coud you be "objective" ? when it comes to figure skating judging. It's just gonna be another bash thread. Off season with Covid19 makes people repetitive and aggresive.

YOU can be objective with your opinion - regardless of what the judges did. That, as I understand it, was the theme of this post. And it doesn't have to be a bash thread unless people continue to try and derail it. I thought it was a good topic.

(not worried about Covid at the moment because I'm in the middle of a tornado warning..............)

 

[Skatesocs]

Oooh yay, another thinly-veiled Sotnikova bash thread.

Hilariously, if you read my OP it's what I was trying to avoid since it was already happening in the RLT. If you don't like it, maybe just don't add fuel to it next time But I see you have nothing else to add, "unfortunately", so maybe this is a true celebration and not sarcasm? :think: The rest of us have better things than what you say and discuss, and know other Olympics happened, though.

 

[SteamedEggplant]

Funny how we’re not allowed to ‘disparage’ a skater, but on the other hand completely diminishing another skaters’ win is fair game. As far as I know, falling twice in a program doesn’t drop your score to 0 and stop you from winning :disapp: Objectively that makes no sense whatsoever. Your fave not winning, no matter how much you expected him to, doesn’t grant you the powers of objectivity.

 

[Skatesocs]

In 1968 Tim Wood lost the gold medal on a scoring mistake by one of the judges, who got confused between the scoring protocols used at the Olympics compared to the rules that applied to Worlds. From a 2014 interview with Skate Guard:



Actually, the best skater at the event was three-time World Champion Emmerich Danzer. Danzer in fact won the free skate. But he totally blew one of his figures and finished 4th in that segment and overall.

Wood did not get along well with his coach. He fired him right in the middle of skating his compulsory figures at the 1970 World Championship.

Wolfgang Schwarz won the Olympic gold medal and went on to serve substantial prison time for human sex trafficking, importing (and at least once, kidnapping) young girls from Eastern Europe to Austria.

Please close the thread it was a mistake. This and your other post is what I was going for... SOCHI is what I'm getting. Who even knew people cared about the men there?!

 

[Mathman]

I think that in both cases, the 2014 men's and women's contests, the fans were caught off guard and consequently went all over the place in reaction. Ladies' was supposed to be the child star Julia Lipnitskaia against the battle-tested champion,Yuna Kim. In men's, could the rising warrior topple the reigning king of the hill? It didn't work out that way. Lipnitskaia faded and Sotnikova was rushed in as a substitute. In men's, neither competitor skated well, both seeming like they were trying to give the gold medal away to the other.

Thank goodness for ice dance. Davis and White were way better than Virtue and Moir. Everyone agrees with that, right? Right?

 

[seimei]

OP choose word "wrong". Denying someone's achievement at biggest sports competition and don't expect bash thread? how irony. I think "my ideal podium or OGM" is better choice.

 

[Skatesocs]

how irony.

Like this post!

 

[cohen-esque]

I’ve never seen anyone else who agrees, but I would have given Pang/Tong the bronze in Sochi. They were rightfully behind Savchenko/Szolkowy by a fairly big margin after the SP, and had an easier planned FS layout with one mistake. They deserved higher PCS than they got in the FS. Meanwhile S/S had a very bad skate with falls on two of their biggest elements, including a really disruptive one as the very last thing in the program, and should have been scored much more harshly than they were on PCS—low enough for P/T to make up the deficit. (In real life they basically tied in the FS.)

I think Javier Fernandez should have won silver over Shoma Uno in 2018.

I also would have given Tim Goebel silver in 2002. Also, maybe predictability based on my user name, would have flipped 3rd and 4th place to give Sasha Cohen bronze in the ladies event.

 

[Skatesocs]

Thank goodness for ice dance. Davis and White were way better than Virtue and Moir. Everyone agrees with that, right? Right?

OK. I just want to register my confusion about one thing. I thought D/W's 2010 OD was masterful, while V/M's 2014 SD was masterful. Everyone thinks that (...Right? Right?! ) so would anyone swap their titles knowing this?

 

[Mista Ekko]

Not like everyone else. Some of us had no problem with the result.

As for Chan, that would be ironic given he made an art form out of winning medals despite wiping the ice with his butt.

Oooh yay, another thinly-veiled Sotnikova bash thread.

No need to bash Sotnikova, She competed extremely well

It's the panel who gave a poor performance

 

[Skatesocs]

Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze were generally regarded as the more accomplished team...

I love how detailed your post is! I actually thought B/S being gold was correct, though.

To go back along way I dont think Plushenko deserved silver at 2002.
If went clean, of course I'd argue for a silver/gold, but he fell in the short program whilst Timothy Goebels had a good short, and then went on to do 3 quad programs. Back then, if you fell in Sp generally speaking you shouldn't even make the podium. However, I think PlushenkosFS redeemed him to the bronze medal. I would have given Tim the silver though.

I agree, and also Goebel had a really nice LP in terms of choreography.

2006 mens - nothing wrong here imo. I maybe disagree with scoring for certain skaters, but the placement was completely correct.

I thought gold and silver were correct. But I don't see why Buttle landed on the podium.

I’ve never seen anyone else who agrees, but I would have given Pang/Tong the bronze in Sochi. They were rightfully behind Savchenko/Szolkowy by a fairly big margin after the SP, and had an easier planned FS layout with one mistake. They deserved higher PCS than they got in the FS. Meanwhile S/S had a very bad skate with falls on two of their biggest elements, including a really disruptive one as the very last thing in the program, and should have been scored much more harshly than they were on PCS—low enough for P/T to make up the deficit. (In real life they basically tied in the FS.)

YES!

 

[Blades of Passion]

I don't think there's ever been an Olympics where I agree with all the medals in more than 2 disciplines. My biggest discrepancies of wrong placement are:

01. Midori Ito 1988 (should have easily won SP + LP, the difference in ability over the entire field is so clear and undeniable)
02. Wendy Burge 1976 (marked 9th in the LP and I think she was the best! Much of the judging in this Ladies event was horrific, the figures era accentuated judging problems, Elena Vodorezova was my #3 for the LP and got totally robbed in the SP)
03. Men's event 2010 (Daisuke Takahashi and Takahiko Kozuka should have finished 1st + 2nd, Weir should have been 3rd in the LP, and overall between Plushenko and Lysacek, I give Plushenko the edge)
04. Punsalan/Swallow 1998, and the ice dance judging in general (I think they should have won, their Free Dance was the best to me and they were undermarked in every other segment too. Although to be fair, the top 5 teams are all quite close to me, it's just small points separating the placements. I did a post in the past with my ordinals in each segment for all the top teams, really wish there was a way to search the Goldenskate Archives, anyone have a tool for doing this?)
05. Matt Savoie 2006 (should have won the Bronze, only placed 7th, PCS judging exposed as awful)
06. Elvis Stojko 1992 + 1994 (was placed a measly 7th in 1992 when I feel he deserved 3rd, and then famously lost in 1994 when most people feel he deserved to win)
07. Scott Hamilton 1984 (just deserved 3rd in the SP and 6th in the LP, easily giving the Gold to Orser)
08. Anett Potzsch 1980 (I move her down to 7th in the SP and 3rd overall, and while this is supposed to just be about Olympics, her placements at Worlds in all of 1977-1980 is a huge joke, I don't think she should have even won a single medal in terms of looking at the non-figures portion of the competitions! She wasn't a bad skater at all, but always made big mistakes and lacked special qualities. Her showing at 1980 Worlds should have put her off the podium even with figures counting...and she won the competition instead)
09. Tiffany Chin 1984 (should have won SP + LP, and was possibly held down in figures, meaning she might have deserved to win the whole thing)
10. Pairs event 2002 (the order of the top 6 is all wrong to me, my podium is 1. Sale/Pelletier, 2. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, 3. Ina/Zimmerman)

Speaking more about the Pairs event in 2002, it wasn't only the one step-out from Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze that was the issue. It was also their throws and twist all being inferior to Sale/Pelletier, and their performance and musical interpretation being worse. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were no doubt the better skaters and most artistically talented, but they weren't inspired by that LP and it had too many movements that were too superficial for the music. They were beautiful movements of course, but it wasn't a deep interpretation, it was just things that looked good on their own, placed on top of "serious, beautiful" music. Even if Sale/Pelletier's program was not as good choreographically, what they were doing reflected the music better and told a better story.

 

[Skatesocs]

01. Midori Ito 1988 (should have easily won SP + LP, the difference in ability over the entire field is so clear and undeniable)
03. Men's event 2010 (Daisuke Takahashi and Takahiko Kozuka should have finished 1st + 2nd, Weir should have been 3rd in the LP, and overall between Plushenko and Lysacek, I give Plushenko the edge)

05. Matt Savoie 2006 (should have won the Bronze, only placed 7th, PCS judging exposed as awful)

Agree here!

06. Elvis Stojko 1992 + 1994 (was placed a measly 7th in 1992 when I feel he deserved 3rd, and then famously lost in 1994 when most people feel he deserved to win)

What's your podium for 1992? I put it in my OP: 1. Wylie 2. Barna 3. Petrenko. I thought Barna did a nice SP, at least...

10. Pairs event 2002 (the order of the top 6 is all wrong to me, my podium is 1. Sale/Pelletier, 2. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, 3. Ina/Zimmerman)
Speaking more about the Pairs event in 2002, it wasn't only the one step-out from Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze that was the issue. It was also their throws and twist all being inferior to Sale/Pelletier, and their performance and musical interpretation being worse. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were no doubt the better skaters and most artistically talented, but they weren't inspired by that LP and it had too many movements that were too superficial for the music. They were beautiful movements of course, but it wasn't a deep interpretation, it was just things that looked good on their own, placed on top of "serious, beautiful" music. Even if Sale/Pelletier's program was not as good choreographically, what they were doing reflected the music better and told a better story.

I thought the result was fine, but admittedly feel a lot less strongly about this event than others... Maybe I should rewatch! Haven't in a while. I actually agree that neither had particularly good programs. B/S had meh interpretation, S/P had meh choreography. I'm not a fan of most pairs who don't come from China Really only like G/G.

ETA: Oh, and I didn't watch anybody apart from Wendy Burge in your other post, but I love how intentional her movement was!

 

[SmallAminal]

I'm really confused as to how anyone can argue about whether the results were "wrong" without bringing out the score sheets and debating whether elements were given high enough/low enough GOE, etc.

If you think someone should have won over another, wouldn't you need to back this up with some analysis of how the numbers would have worked out if the elements had been scored as you think they should? Vaguely saying "so and so skated better than so and so" isn't very compelling to me unless you go and look at the numbers. Especially under IJS, you have to look at the data and consider how (at the time) it either rewarded or punished certain things (e.g. if you fully rotate a quad but fall). My personal feeling (as a spectator only) is that falls are extremely disrupting to the overall program, so during the era when you were rewarded for trying a quad and rotating it (even if you fell), I found myself disagreeing with the scoring convention and wishing that falls could be penalized with larger deductions. But that's just my opinion - you would have to consider the particular IJS or scoring system in place at the time - sometimes the system rewarded things that we disagreed with, but it doesn't make the results "wrong" in and of itself (although it certainly could raise questions about the scoring system itself).