Original Dance - Virtue/Moir and Davis/White - Round 2

[1795]

could we please, please go back to the 6.0 system please?

never!

 

[netnuts]

OD final:
1 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 65.02 34.74 30.28 7.89 7.79 7.93 8.00 8.18 0.00 #6
2 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA 61.93 33.01 28.92 7.46 7.46 7.57 7.75 7.79 0.00 #8
3 Kimberly NAVARRO / Brent BOMMENTRE USA 56.67 31.14 25.53 6.57 6.43 6.68 6.86 7.00 0.00 #5
4 Jennifer WESTER / Daniil BARANTSEV USA 55.44 30.93 24.51 6.36 6.29 6.50 6.54 6.57 0.00 #7
5 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN 54.95 31.30 23.65 6.25 6.04 6.25 6.25 6.32 0.00 #13
6 Allie HANN-MCCURDY / Michael CORENO CAN 50.53 28.65 21.88 5.75 5.54 5.86 5.79 5.86 0.00 #12
7 Cathy REED / Chris REED JPN 49.64 28.79 20.85 5.54 5.21 5.54 5.54 5.61 0.00 #11
8 Xiaoyang YU / Chen WANG CHN 45.60 27.13 18.47 5.04 4.68 4.86 4.86 4.86 0.00 #9
9 Xintong HUANG / Xun ZHENG CHN 45.35 26.55 18.80 4.96 4.79 5.07 4.93 5.00 0.00 #10
10 Danielle OBRIEN / Gregory MERRIMAN AUS 37.44 23.87 14.57 3.96 3.71 3.75 3.93 3.82 1.00 #4
11 Jiameimei GUO / Fei MENG CHN 36.80 22.94 14.86 4.00 3.68 3.96 3.96 3.96 1.00 #2
12 Maria BOROUNOV / Evgeni BOROUNOV AUS 34.93 22.60 12.33 3.39 3.04 3.32 3.36 3.18 0.00 #3
13 Sun Hye YU / Ramil SARKULOV UZB 33.78 19.76 14.02 3.79 3.46 3.64 3.75 3.79 0.00 #1

OD+CD:
1 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN
103.24 1 1
2 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA
99.29 2 2
3 Kimberly NAVARRO / Brent BOMMENTRE USA
91.03 3 3
4 Jennifer WESTER / Daniil BARANTSEV USA
86.39 4 4
5 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN
85.89 5 5
6 Allie HANN-MCCURDY / Michael CORENO CAN
80.26 6 6
7 Cathy REED / Chris REED JPN
76.70 7 7
8 Xiaoyang YU / Chen WANG CHN
71.21 8 8
9 Xintong HUANG / Xun ZHENG CHN
70.57 9 9
10 Danielle OBRIEN / Gregory MERRIMAN AUS
58.70 11 10
11 Jiameimei GUO / Fei MENG CHN
57.76 12 11
12 Sun Hye YU / Ramil SARKULOV UZB
56.24 10 13
13 Maria BOROUNOV / Evgeni BOROUNOV AUS
52.71 13 12

 

[chuckm]

The inflation is UNSTOPPABLE. I recall seeing the scores at German Nationals. S&S got sth close to 80 pts in their short program, which was almost physically impossible considering they have almost maximized all level 4 at international stage and generally scored 70+ range.

It looks to me so far everybody in ice dancing has gotten a PB!!

Scores will revert to a less stratospheric level at Worlds. Remember at the last 4CC, Emily Hughes 'rotated' all her triples in the FS and scored 111.26, and Kimmie Meissner scored 120.26 for her FS.

At Worlds, Emily had several triples downgraded and scored just 98.18 in the FS, and Kimmie scored only 115.56.

Kostner went from 114 and change at Euros to just 101 at Worlds.

Delshoes scored 199.47 at Euros and only 194.19 at Worlds.

 

[DWfan]

aren't these the same ISU judges though (well ... not the SAME same but... similar standard/etc. type of judge)? for both 4CC and worlds?

and on that note... I believe both V/M and D/W scored better at Worlds 2007 than at 4CC 2007 on their freedance (and I believe D/W improved on their score on the OD as well at Worlds)

 

[chuckm]

Seems the judges are much more lenient and generous at the Regional ISU Championships than they are in the GP and JW/Worlds. Perhaps the intention is to put all the skaters in a good frame of mind going into the main events.

and on that note... I believe both V/M and D/W scored better at Worlds 2007 than at 4CC 2007 on their freedance (and I believe D/W improved on their score on the OD as well at Worlds)

That is true, but 4CC was the first ISU Championship event for both teams, and the judges held back on their 4CC scoring because of that.

Notice this year that Hann-McCurdy/Coreno didn't get the boost that Weaver/Poje did. They were a lot closer in scores at Skate Canada, but W/P had already competed at Worlds and H-M/C were in their ISU Championship debut.

 

[fanofskate]

Ah, I don't like this whole inflation deal. Makes placements/rankings throughout the season meaningless. Scores at events can't really be used to compare the abilities (or lack thereof) of teams. They should just set a standard track on the ice and let the skaters dance their way around it, timed and given a set of steps. There would be marks on the rink where they have to hit a certain dance step or what not. (I'm joking of course, or am I?)

And I don't like ice dance's 'wait for your turn' tradition. I'm a relatively new fan of ice dance (almost 2 seasons now). I was hoping that this discipline is on its way to carving a new path of respect and appreciation by duly recognizing a team's ability with the due COP. It shouldn't matter whether they are newcomers or oldtimers.

Ok, off my soapbox. Waiting for uploads of the ODs. Any available yet?

 

[cassieandcheetah]

And I don't like ice dance's 'wait for your turn' tradition. I'm a relatively new fan of ice dance (almost 2 seasons now). I was hoping that this discipline is on its way to carving a new path of respect and appreciation by duly recognizing a team's ability with the due COP. It shouldn't matter whether they are newcomers or oldtimers.

OH my god, it so matter how long you've been in the sport, because since ice dance is the least technically demanding sport, what makes a team shine is polish and smoothness that can only come with experience and age. Virtue and Moir are good, but I don't think they are quite as good as they can be if they got a bit older. Schoenfelder and Delobel may be slower and not as flexible, but they for sure have got that experience thing going, that enhances their every move even if you didn't think you noticed it. THAT must count in ice dance.

 

[1795]

OH my god, it so matter how long you've been in the sport, because since ice dance is the least technically demanding sport, what makes a team shine is polish and smoothness that can only come with experience and age. Virtue and Moir are good, but I don't think they are quite as good as they can be if they got a bit older. Schoenfelder and Delobel may be slower and not as flexible, but they for sure have got that experience thing going, that enhances their every move even if you didn't think you noticed it. THAT must count in ice dance.

delobel and schoenfelder are slow? inflexible?

 

[npa]

well, I don't know if I could take your comments at face value lol. I'm sure I would probably like you as a person, but you just have this thing against D/W and a huuge bias for V/M, so.....

But you have somethig against V/M

 

[oleada]

Quite frankly, anyone who says something slightly critical towards V&M has something against them according to you.

I don't think DelSchoes are slow. She's not necessarily the most flexible lady out there, but there speed seems very nice.

 

[fanofskate]

OH my god, it so matter how long you've been in the sport, because since ice dance is the least technically demanding sport, what makes a team shine is polish and smoothness that can only come with experience and age. Virtue and Moir are good, but I don't think they are quite as good as they can be if they got a bit older. Schoenfelder and Delobel may be slower and not as flexible, but they for sure have got that experience thing going, that enhances their every move even if you didn't think you noticed it. THAT must count in ice dance.

I'm talking about 'waiting your turn' scoring and huge gap scoring when in fact it should be a lot closer.

So if Del/Schoe or B/A or happen to be on a sort of 'off' night and made mistakes, would V/M or K/N or D/W or P/B or whoever else be scored their due or made to 'wait' even if they had a better performance both technically and artistically? I hope the ISU would judge fairly. While I agree that experience can enhance a team's abilities, I still think the tradition of 'waiting your turn' is not a good thing. Scoring should be based on the performance on that particular competition alone. It is not the Cumulative (over the past season/s) of Points, is it? Everybody should be on a level playing field at every competition. You are scored solely on what is observed on the ice on a specific time and day and not on what you've done from before or what you could do in the future. A true sporting event, should score this way.

BTW, I happen to like Del/Schoe. Nothing against them. I believe they too were made to 'wait' in past seasons. (Not sure about this, just going by discussions in message boards).

 

[MissIzzy]

So if Del/Schoe or B/A or happen to be on a sort of 'off' night and made mistakes, would V/M or K/N or D/W or P/B or whoever else be scored their due or made to 'wait' even if they had a better performance both technically and artistically?

Actually in such a situation I think they would pass them-because everything will go to Domnina and Shabalin up until Vancouver 2010, so such a scenario can only occur at the 2010 Worlds, where I actually am hoping for one fair competition before K&N take over, since "wait your turn" really means Russians wait their turn to win gold and other teams wait their turn to win other medals.

 

[missysays]

Yes the scores are definitely inflated but having said that.....

What a great effort by the top teams.

Virtue/Moir- they have such great performance energy. They have this great balance of being controlled yet not holding back. Yes, Scott's last twizzle in the midline was wonky but they sold the entire performance. Not quite as gypsy wild and out there as say Khokhlova and Novitski- after all they are still just a couple of kids from suburban Ontario- but their usual high quality, incredibly polished and mature skating.

Davis/White- I think what I love about Meryl and Charlie is that you can literally see them grow and change from one competition to the next. This was just 2 weeks after Nationals and in that time this dance is ever so slightly different- they've added small touches and expressions- it's even more playful. They did this new cool move where Charlie gets down on one knee and spins around supporting Meryl as she has her leg thrown over his other leg. They did stop a touch after the music ended but I found myself grinning after watching their performance. I have no idea if this is so- but I get the impression that Meryl has started to come into herself- all of a sudden I feel that she wants to win and she doesn't want to be the 3rd place team at the Arctic Edge anymore. There's a quiet resolve about the way she's throwing herself into these programs. I don't think Charlie's necessarily the one in charge in that skating partnership.

I haven't seen Nav/Bom yet.

But I saw Wester/Barantsev- they did a good job. A bit out of synch in twizzles but they looked like they were satisfied with their outing. You can kind of tell that something inside of Daniel is starting to awaken again- he's been looking kind of sluggish in past performances. I think he's remembering what it's like to be a world class competitor again. I wish them many more international competitions to come.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

But you have somethig against V/M

who said that? I just like them a little less than D/w.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

delobel and schoenfelder are slow? inflexible?

oh dear 1795. You know how much I love them! I'm just talking about stuff that V/M are a bit better at than they.

 

[all that]

Davis/White- I have no idea if this is so- but I get the impression that Meryl has started to come into herself- all of a sudden I feel that she wants to win and she doesn't want to be the 3rd place team at the Arctic Edge anymore. There's a quiet resolve about the way she's throwing herself into these programs.

You know, I got that same feeling when I saw them in the K&C after the OD. When they got their second place scores, Marina seemed to turn to them and say "Second -- well, that's good, isn't it?", and Charlie seemed to be happy with it, but it looked like Meryl really wasn't. Perhaps either she felt that they could have done better, or perhaps scored higher, or perhaps both?

 

[fanofskate]

Just finished watching the ODs. I truly like Scott Moir. He has wonderful carriage and flair, a really good dancer. Those flamenco type moves, the flick of the wrist, the snappy kick of the leg up, the head moves with the chin up...I just wish though that Tessa was the one highlighted in this dance. In a gypsy dance, isn't it the woman's movements especially with the shawl, that drives the character of the dance? Maybe even swishing that shawl skirt a bit or something. I know teams have to be careful with their props as they can get a deduction if they fall.

I did notice the nice changes that D/W (my favs) had in their OD. Did Meryl miss a turn in their twizzles (she 2, he 3?) in the earlier section? I think their OD is closer to the playful, fun, flirty character that Kalinka requires (guessing here). Losing the hat and handkerchief, in this case, didn't hurt the dance. B/A using the hat (US Nat'ls) in the OD was a risky move but it does add to the character of their dance.

Re Meryl. I did hear her say "ouch" in TEB when their free dance PCS was shown. Also in Nationals K&C (FD), look at the dynamics there. Marina looks like she is taking special care to get Meryl to agree that they did well. So, Meryl may be feeling those low scores more than Charlie.

 

[dorispulaski]

I'm wondering whether the scores at 4CC's are bait by the ISU to get skaters to go to it, so they can up their lifetime personal best scores

V&M's previous personal best was 62.04 at last year's NHK..

D&W's previous personal best was 55.82 at last year's worlds. And now they're at 61.93, 6 points better

That would have put V&M over DelSchoes at Europeans and D&W in 3rd place behind DomShabs.

I think nearly all the skaters got personal bests here.

Those scores can't possibly hold up at Worlds unless the skaters who suffered by being at Europeans score higher yet.

What's even scarier is that both V&M and D&W could have skated a bit better. Meryl had a slight stumble and so did Scott.

I am so liking that Meryl & Charlie are interacting a lot more with each other, rather than just with the audience, and I find I am watching Meryl at least half the time instead of all Charlie, all the time.

V&M -I wish they would take their scarf back from Weaver & Poje and skate the version of their OD they showed at the Canadian Test Skate. The dance is so much better and much more "gypsy" with the scarf. They don't have to do the risky throw the scarf move at the end, just incorporate it back into the dance. I thought this was better than their outing at the GPF, though.

D&W-I wish they would do a different straight line lift than that one where Charlie's lunging on his knee and Meryl's got her arms crossed.

 

[dwiggin3]

You know, I got that same feeling when I saw them in the K&C after the OD. When they got their second place scores, Marina seemed to turn to them and say "Second -- well, that's good, isn't it?", and Charlie seemed to be happy with it, but it looked like Meryl really wasn't. Perhaps either she felt that they could have done better, or perhaps scored higher, or perhaps both?

I would have put D/W in first at Nationals after the CD.

 

[dwiggin3]

Am I the only one that finds V/M a bit boring...esp. when directly comparing them to D/W? Hmmm....