PCS inflation in the last group

[Eclair]

I would like to propose a different skating order to prevent PCS inflation in the last group (no matter whether it's mens, ladies, dance or pairs).

How about the first placed skater after the SP skated first in the LP and all the other skaters just draw lots and randomly skate in no particular order.

The idea came because there were a couple of good skaters even in the earlier groups today - 1. group: Kozuka, Mura and viewers darling MCM, 2. group: Farris, Kovtun, 3. group: Nyguen, Misha, Rippon, 4. group: ten, hanyu, fernandez.

Usually I just skip the first 3 groups or do laundry while listening half-hearted, but now I noticed how more exciting the competition went if there're top guns in each group. Also, the question of other skaters beating the first placed in the SP would just add to the excitement level. This way I assume there'd be less PCS inflation for the last group and PCS would be given out (or so I hope) for actual skating and not skating order. There'd still be reputation judging, but that's another issue I'm not addressing here.

Considering this is the first time I started a thread, please be kind to me^^ If you think this idea is stupid, I'd be interested to read why.

 

[Noolan]

It is more fun to watch when the stars athletes are evenly spread, that's for sure. But I think the problem would be TV coverage. Not every channel wants to show the entire competition that can go on for like 5 hours. With the current system they can just show the final group or two.

 

[Eclair]

TV channels could be a problem, I didn't think of that. But then again, how many tv stations actually broadcast the competition live? Nbc surely not and eurosport only occasionally. Japanese tv usually doesn't broadcast live or that has been my impression so far. Russia usually broadcasts the whole competition live, so that's no problem for them either. Actually, I don't think it would make that much of a difference in broadcastig shedule...

 

[Noolan]

But then again, how many tv stations actually broadcast the competition live?

I think Japanese channels do show live coverage of just the final groups from time to time. But yeah, I guess it's not that big of a problem.

 

[silverfoxes]

It's an interesting idea. But imagine if the random draw resulted in a bunch of mediocre skaters in the final groups and/or all of the favorites going right at the beginning - a lot of people wouldn't stick around to watch the rest. It would feel very anticlimactic. And if they're going to keep that "green room" concept, that would be excruciating, to be stuck there for a couple hours or more...

 

[shiroKJ]

It's an interesting idea. But imagine if the random draw resulted in a bunch of mediocre skaters in the final groups and/or all of the favorites going right at the beginning - a lot of people wouldn't stick around to watch the rest. It would feel very anticlimactic. And if they're going to keep that "green room" concept, that would be excruciating, to be stuck there for a couple hours or more...

That's probably the main motivation behind the drawing setup.

 

[satine]

I've always thought that a completely random draw for skaters would be best. Yes, there's the broadcasting problem & it not being very 'climatic' but I think that would make the scoring a lot more fair. Not perfect, but less of a PCS scale than we usually see hwell:

 

[StitchMonkey]

I wonder how skaters feel. I would rather skater with their peers so to speak, rather than be the let down after a big name. By keeping everyone grouped, you have more even tempo of the night, you don't see as dramatic comparisons between skills levels. It might work better from an audience reaction perspective. Better audiences often mean better skates.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I honestly don't mind the obligatory boost. I get excited everytime I see the Zamboni too

I think too it gives a little extra incentive to do well in the SP and no matter where you skate you have a chance to move up. Boxers have to work their way up the ranking system and it doesn't hold them back. One step at a time. I highly doubt the judges can continue to ignore a good skater who is skating well. While we all know there is and will always be politicking.... The most effective way will always be blade to ice IMO.

That said...I would love to see a top tier skater in every group The tv folks don't make it easy for me to watch so I don't care if it is any more difficult for them to broadcast.

 

[YesWay]

There is an assumption here that "skaters in later groups are given higher PCS simply for being in the later groups".

There may be something in that, but mostly (!) I think it is a fallacy.

I think the bigger factor is: Skaters get into the later groups because they are higher scorers

They have earned rankings from past competitions to be in the later groups of short programs, or scored highly enough in SP to be in the later groups of the FS. Skaters simply have to deliver consistently and their PCS will rise.

Look at Rika Hongo. First year in seniors and she has been steadily climbing the ladder, by delivering consistent results, making incremental improvements to her performance, and some smart choices in her program playing to her strengths and avoiding her current weaknesses. She is by no means the only example.

 

[satine]

If skaters aren't affected by any PCS boost, then (gradual climatic-building of the event aside) what would be the downside of having them skate in a more random order? Also, if a skater came in first in the SP with a 5 point lead & was selected to skate 10th (in a hypothetical random draw) instead of 19-24th(as is the norm) in the FS, do you think they would get the same PCS in both situations? I'm asking for general thoughts here

 

[Eclair]

It's an interesting idea. But imagine if the random draw resulted in a bunch of mediocre skaters in the final groups and/or all of the favorites going right at the beginning - a lot of people wouldn't stick around to watch the rest. It would feel very anticlimactic. And if they're going to keep that "green room" concept, that would be excruciating, to be stuck there for a couple hours or more...

Hmm, I don't wish for anticlimatic competitions of course How about this: the 1st after the sp skates 1st in the LP. the 2nd after the sp skates in the 4nd group. the 3rd. in the sp in the 3rd group. and the 4th after the sp skates in the 2nd group. All the other skaters draw lots randomly. This way we have an guaranteed excitement buildup because everyone is wondering if the top 5 can top the score of the first after the sp.

I wonder how skaters feel. I would rather skater with their peers so to speak, rather than be the let down after a big name. By keeping everyone grouped, you have more even tempo of the night, you don't see as dramatic comparisons between skills levels. It might work better from an audience reaction perspective. Better audiences often mean better skates.

I think more evenly spread top guns keeps the audience awake But that's a personal preferance, I guess.
But, I'm pretty sure if this really reduces the last group pcs inflation, then skaters would like the idea. Everyone wants to be judged by what they do and if they work harder and skate better be judged accordingly.

There is an assumption here that "skaters in later groups are given higher PCS simply for being in the later groups".

There may be something in that, but mostly (!) I think it is a fallacy.

I think the bigger factor is: Skaters get into the later groups because they are higher scorers

They have earned rankings from past competitions to be in the later groups of short programs, or scored highly enough in SP to be in the later groups of the FS. Skaters simply have to deliver consistently and their PCS will rise.

Look at Rika Hongo. First year in seniors and she has been steadily climbing the ladder, by delivering consistent results, making incremental improvements to her performance, and some smart choices in her program playing to her strengths and avoiding her current weaknesses. She is by no means the only example.

The new skating order woudn't take away the repuation judging, that's coming from delivering consistent results. It would only prevent good skaters who had a bad short program to be judged more fairly according the way they skated that night.
Had Rika Hongo skated a bad sp and earlier in the FS, but performed the same amazing FS as she did yesterday, her PCS in the FS wouldn't be the same even though objectivly she skated the FS just as good!
Another example: Kozuka skated a bad sp but his FS PCS would be way higher had he skated let's say in the third group.
The new skating order would prevent the judges thinking: the later the night, the better the skaters, no matter how they actually skate at that night. Now, they would have to look at what the skaters has done on the ice and judge it accordingly.

 

[YesWay]

The new skating order woudn't take away the repuation judging, that's coming from delivering consistent results.

That's a key point, I think. In my opinion, what people refer to as "reputation" scoring/judging is usually (though not always) "consistency" instead.

Judging in theory should be based only on what the judges see "on the night".
"Consistency" (their previous recent performances) shouldn't influence PCS.
But I think it does - to a certain extent.

And I'm not entirely sure that's such a bad thing. I mean, if someone consistently delivers good performances, doesn't that show a higher level of skating skill? Than someone who mostly does poorly and only has occasional flashes of brilliance? I don't know.

I'm sure there are many factors at play, but one in particular I'd throw into the mix: the Skating Skills component "seems" to correlate with the range of scores given to the other PCS components. And if "consistency" helps to drive up the Skating Skills component... well, it may help to drive up the other components and the overall PCS as well?