Phil Hersh's Tweet

[gmyers]

Yes, let's do things! Let's be nasty! I'm sure that will help enormously!

After all, if we all join in and make sarcastic remarks at the skaters, I'm sure that will teach them, and they'll bother to put in an effort... (I'd put in a "rolleye" here again, except I'm afraid of getting dizzy-spells and consequently nautious... )

Seriously, gmyers, do try to make some sense, at least!

It’s about the leaders of the program! All skaters are part of a much larger program and it’s not an attack on the skaters but the whole establishment of American skating and pairs system! Or lack of one!

 

[NanaPat]

Let's face it, we haven't had a World Champion in pairs since 1979. So we shouldn't have sent any since 1979 because they didn't win?

Canada hasn't had a World gold medalist in ladies since 1973. A good thing they didn't listen to the likes of Phil Hirsch and not send Kaetlyn Osmond.

 

[LRK]

I'm not sure how to stop the pair swapping. I expect in China, Russia and comparable countries they pair people up, say "You're skating with this person period" and they aren't allowed to break up, they're told who they have to skate with. That means they have to work through stuff that pairs here don't want to work through (just my opinion).

And what is USFS's problem with Tai? She seems to be a wonderful person and she is a fabulous skater. I could just watch her stroke around the ice and be happy. I know USA Diving wouldn't use Greg Louganis for years because he was gay/HIV positive, but they finally reconciled with him after treating him like trash for many years. But the times have changed, and that's not Tai's situation anyway. I love her. She retweeted one of my tweets. But of course I loved her before that.

Actually a few years back there was a postitive rash of partner swapping in Russian pairs - it seemed as if everyone was playing musical chairs, so no, I don't think the Russian fed has that much clout (maybe they had back in the day, but not now). Also, while I don't watch ice dance, people to this day are mourning the split of Ilinykh/Katsalapov - if the fed had that much say, would they ever have been allowed to break up?

In China it may be more of the case of you skate with whom you are told to skate with. They even dictated the Peng/Jin/Yu/Zhang switcheroo.

 

[andromache]

IMO, Twitter snark against grown adults who are elites in their sport is tasteless, but ultimately harmless. There are far worse things said by writers and critics about professional athletes in sports other than figure skating every day.

And hey, if you can dish it out, you can take it! Which is why I'm also 100% in favor of the athletes and other writers and critics going after Phil for what he said. And Phil takes criticism very well.

We're all making a mountain out of a molehill, in my opinion.

 

[moonvine]

We're all making a mountain out of a molehill, in my opinion.

Not if Alexa quits over it, we aren't.

 

[sross43]

If it is so easy, please, get out there and demonstrate. I'll be happy to cheer for you. You seem to forget that we have 2 men in the top 6 after the short, we are arguably the ice dancing powerhouse in the world, we had a senior lady who got 6th at worlds in her debut senior season. Alexa came back after almost dying, not just not being able to walk. She's a bad*ss.

I never quite see the logic behind the, "If it's so easy, you go do it," argument. If you are having heart surgery and your cardiologist nicks an unclamped artery and you bleed out, the doctor does not have the right to say, "Well if it's so easy, you try it!" Because he is a professional of whom a certain level of performance is expected if he wants to be taken seriously in his field. Pointing out that lack of performance is not being overtly critical, it is highlighting what is wrong with this sport: complacency. Alexa is amazing, and she has always been the more talented skater of that pair. With a different partner, she would be competitive. If the US medaled sixth in gymnastics or swimming, no one would be cheering. Bradie is a lovely skater, but she is not the answer to US figure skating woes, and neither was Karen, and neither was Gracie. The answer will only lie in fixing a culture that is content with sixth place finishes, waving at the Russians and the Japanese as they pass us by.

 

[karne]

He was every right to be critical. American skating (though not pairs skating) used to be the most dominant in the world, and now we chear for 9th place finishes and lower? There is value in competition itself, but skaters are not putting in the necessary effort to be the best in the world. We need Michelle Kwan throwing in an extra tiple at World's, we need Nancy becoming Olympic ready a month after not being able to walk, we needs skaters to have a fire lit under them. Until then, all we're going to get are Alexa and Chris not landing any difficult sbs and Karen complaining about her boots.

You can be critical of a program without being a brainless jerk like Hersh.

Hersh asked "What's the point?" of sending pairs to finish fifteenth.

This Team Australia fan argues there's every point. You don't get better by being stopped from competing!!!

 

[AshWagsFan]

Phil needs to calm down. He’s gotten soooo critical this year, and he’s made very nasty comments in the past. I never liked him, and I think it’s time for him to find another sport or retire... like how he tells so many other skaters to...

 

[sross43]

You can be critical of a program without being a brainless jerk like Hersh.

Hersh asked "What's the point?" of sending pairs to finish fifteenth.

This Team Australia fan argues there's every point. You don't get better by being stopped from competing!!!

He was harsh, but the subtlety of becoming internationally irrelevant seems to have been lost on the USFS--maybe bluntness is needed. If they want figure skating to stop losing popularity in the US, they need to make improvements. Maybe this is a weirdly American thing, but most Americans only like the sports we're good at: football, baseball, women's soccer, gymnastics. The public wants to see champions, not top 20 finishes. I'm not saying pairs skating should have no spots, but Alexa and Chris knew coming into this they were not competitive and did not increase their technical content or deliver on performance. Every American except the Shib Sibs underperformed at the Olympics. That's systematic of an association that doesn't know how to produce champions.

 

[moonvine]

He was harsh, but the subtlety of becoming internationally irrelevant seems to have been lost on the USFS--maybe bluntness is needed. If they want figure skating to stop losing popularity in the US, they need to make improvements. Maybe this is a weirdly American thing, but most Americans only like the sports we're good at: football, baseball, women's soccer, gymnastics. The public wants to see champions, not top 20 finishes. I'm not saying pairs skating should have no spots, but Alexa and Chris knew coming into this they were not competitive and did not increase their technical content or deliver on performance. Every American except the Shib Sibs underperformed at the Olympics. That's systematic of an association that doesn't know how to produce champions.

You may be too young to remember (or not) but I've been a women's gymnastics fan since 1976, when we certainly weren't producing champions. The sport was still popular. Men's gymnastics, not so much, then or now.

 

[moonvine]

I never quite see the logic behind the, "If it's so easy, you go do it," argument. If you are having heart surgery and your cardiologist nicks an unclamped artery and you bleed out, the doctor does not have the right to say, "Well if it's so easy, you try it!" Because he is a professional of whom a certain level of performance is expected if he wants to be taken seriously in his field. Pointing out that lack of performance is not being overtly critical, it is highlighting what is wrong with this sport: complacency. Alexa is amazing, and she has always been the more talented skater of that pair. With a different partner, she would be competitive. If the US medaled sixth in gymnastics or swimming, no one would be cheering. Bradie is a lovely skater, but she is not the answer to US figure skating woes, and neither was Karen, and neither was Gracie. The answer will only lie in fixing a culture that is content with sixth place finishes, waving at the Russians and the Japanese as they pass us by.

I personally think part of the problem is cost. How many potentially super talented skaters are funneled into other, cheaper sports due to lack of money? It looks like there's a thread over in the Lutz Corner about Starr Andrews only practicing 1-2 hours per day due to cost. There were ice dancers at Nationals who had in the past been forced to hold their skates together with Gorilla glue. If Chris and Alexa do retire, we're left with a pair who couldn't even make the free. That's not better.

 

[sross43]

I personally think part of the problem is cost. How many potentially super talented skaters are funneled into other, cheaper sports due to lack of money? It looks like there's a thread over in the Lutz Corner about Starr Andrews only practicing 1-2 hours per day due to cost. There were ice dancers at Nationals who had in the past been forced to hold their skates together with Gorilla glue. If Chris and Alexa do retire, we're left with a pair who couldn't even make the free. That's not better.

Cost is definitely an issue. State-sponsored sports are part of the reason why the Russians have such a wide base of talent, I'm sure. If they want to increase popularity, they need to make the sport more accessible, though. Ice network was a bad idea from the start; events should be live-streamed for free to entice new viewers, especially sports that are declining in popularity. Whenever competitions are held in the US, the USFS could give out free tickets to kids through the schools (if they don't already). Maybe provide costumes to skating clubs for skaters to borrow during the season. Skates will always be expensive, but if the cost of costumes were eliminated it might be more accessible to people. Perhaps subsidize the coaches' pay for the coaches who have shown promise. The USFS could pay part of the salaries, making ice time cheaper for the skaters.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Another example was when he compared Adam to Eddie Edwards. You know, the ski jumper who was really bad at ski jumping and got a lot of attention because of that. Because skating 3 clean but quadless programs at Olympics really invites that "novelty act" comparison. :sarcasm:

What?! He dissed Eddie the Eagle! I will fight him! Eddie is awesome! He followed all the rules and I for one salute him for learning ski-jumping! Not a sport for the faint-hearted!

Dismissing Adam and his achievements at the Olympics is even worse.

Seriously what's Phil's problem?

 

[andromache]

Not if Alexa quits over it, we aren't.

...is she at risk of quitting because of it?

If she is, then I really missed an interview or lost track of something, because I seriously had no idea

 

[TallAdultSkater]

Actual tweet text from Philip Hersh:

Other than ski jumper Eddie the Eagle Edwards and the '88 Jamaican bobsled team, who were novelty acts in dangerous sports, has anyone become more popular after being an Olympic also-ran than Adam Rippon?


also- ran means: a loser in a race or contest, especially by a large margin. an undistinguished or unsuccessful person or thing.

He called the Jamaican Bobsled Team and Eddie Novelty acts and basically losers- booooo and then dissed Adam. Oh no he didn't!!!! Maybe Phil's jealous? The book Eddie the Eagle is awesome by the way.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

IMO, Twitter snark against grown adults who are elites in their sport is tasteless, but ultimately harmless. There are far worse things said by writers and critics about professional athletes in sports other than figure skating every day.

And hey, if you can dish it out, you can take it! Which is why I'm also 100% in favor of the athletes and other writers and critics going after Phil for what he said. And Phil takes criticism very well.

We're all making a mountain out of a molehill, in my opinion.

It's not harmless whatsoever when the skaters and their families are seeing these tweets. He's supposed to be a professional and this is anything but, he's closer at this point to a spoiled punk on the playground not getting his way or being jealous of others and reducing to name calling and hair pulling.

He's a creep.

 

[TallAdultSkater]

Some people, but not Phil. He called Adam an "Olympic also ran" or some kinda stuff. I was like really?

I edited my original post for clarity: Some people (NOT PHIL), but other media, fans etc..

Actual tweet text from Philip Hersh:

Other than ski jumper Eddie the Eagle Edwards and the '88 Jamaican bobsled team, who were novelty acts in dangerous sports, has anyone become more popular after being an Olympic also-ran than Adam Rippon?


also- ran means: a loser in a race or contest, especially by a large margin. an undistinguished or unsuccessful person or thing.

 

[andromache]

It's not harmless whatsoever when the skaters and their families are seeing these tweets. He's supposed to be a professional and this is anything but, he's closer at this point to a spoiled punk on the playground not getting his way or being jealous of others and reducing to name calling and hair pulling.

He's a creep.

He's not tweeting at kids or adult skaters pursuing their hobby. He's a professional tweeting about professionals. And, well, like it or not, journalists and other people in the sports world have created and are generally comfortable in the harsh culture they've established on Twitter. It's fair to dislike it and block or ignore it, whether you're a fan or an athlete. But elite skaters who are also adults should all be tough enough to deal with whatever crappy people on the internet have to say, or ignore it entirely. Alexa dealt with it. She's a tough, awesome lady. It's not like Phil is tweeting directly at her or DMing her hate, at least from what I saw earlier.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

He's not tweeting at kids or adult skaters pursuing their hobby. He's a professional tweeting about professionals. And, well, like it or not, journalists and other people in the sports world have created and are generally comfortable in the harsh culture they've established on Twitter. It's fair to dislike it and block or ignore it, whether you're a fan or an athlete. But elite skaters who are also adults should all be tough enough to deal with whatever crappy people on the internet have to say, or ignore it entirely. Alexa dealt with it. She's a tough, awesome lady. It's not like Phil is tweeting directly at her or DMing her hate, at least from what I saw earlier.

First of all, they're not pros. Pro is when you are retired. Secondly, if Phil was so professional of a journalist himself, he wouldn't feel the need to sink to speaking the way he does on twitter or anything else. There are so many others that do the same job as him without hitting below the belt at skaters and their families. Alexa didn't exactly deal with it, she's still apologizing and sulking in thinking that it's her fault they lost a spot for their country. I am glad she did say something and so on, but really, there was no reason for Phil to start the war. YMMV

 

[TallAdultSkater]

Did you actually read Phil's tweet that I linked to in my post? Here it is, copypasted for your convenience:

Since when have "novelty act" and "also-ran" been simply compliments and synonymous with "having a big, fun personality"? And how are Adam's competitive performances and results at Olys (i.e. technically solid and aesthetically pleasing skates resulting in a team medal as well as a top 10 placement in the individual competition) comparable to how the Jamaican bobsled team and Eddie Edwards performed in their respective Olympic events? In other words, how do you manage to interpret Phil's portrayal of Adam as comparable to "novelty acts in dangerous sports" as being totally complimentary and in no way dismissive towards Adam as a skater and competitor?

Had he wanted to simply say that Adam has a fun personality and other qualities that got him disproportionate media attention compared to other athletes with similar results, he could've said something along those lines. Instead, he decided to used those words he used. And as a writer, he knows that words and connotations matter.

Ok, You totally misunderstand my original post and extrapolated things I never remotely said

Yes, I read the original tweet.

Definition of an also-ran: a loser in a race or contest, especially by a large margin. An undistinguished or unsuccessful person or thing.

Phil crapped on the Jamaican Bobsled team, Eddie and Adam all at once. He insulted all of them. Eddie and the Jamaicans were not novelty acts. They worked very hard to get there. Read the book Eddie the Eagle, he wasn't a terrible jumper, he started that sport at 22.

Other people (I clarified my original post on who are the other people, NOT PHIL) have made the Adam-Eddie comparison as a compliment because of their hard work and awesome personalities!