Phil Hersh's Tweet

[essence_of_soy]

As usual, Mr Hersh has reinforced his place in the sport is nothing but self - serving vitrole designed to drive hit rates, and feed his own ego.

This Edward Gorey tale sums up my thoughts, about where he fits in the scheme of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRN_cMxWXs

 

[karne]

I'm not saying pairs skating should have no spots, but Alexa and Chris knew coming into this they were not competitive and did not increase their technical content or deliver on performance.

Again: Alexa and Chris weren't the only pair there for the US. It's not their fault the other pair didn't pull their weight too.

 

[GrandmaCC]

Weren’t these guys the only pair used for the team event in Korea?
Like...nice way to treat the two people who helped enable everyone else to get the bronze? * Sheesh! What a bitter old man.
Such a contrast to the press conferences post SP and LP in Milan where everyone was treated like and behaved like, you know, sportsmanlike adults.

I can’t say I know much about US pairs or this team, so forgive me please if any details are wrong. (Above or below)

But as a fan from a country where seeing our sole skater per discipline qualify to the free is a huge YAY moment, one that has non-fans looking twice and paying attention come OG time, I must say that if USA pairs is legit so poor at the moment that they were only able to send one team (which technically isn’t much worse on paper that the gals atm, with that third spot gone), then isn’t it in the best interest of the sport to promote the heck out of these guys? If only to spark interest in pairs for the upcoming generation? Or even just to boost viewership??

C’mon Phil, even Alina the CHILD who is supposedly subsiding on air and Eteri’s kinetic glare propulsion has the brainpower to speak nicely of others, or at least know when to just say nothing incriminating!

 

[andromache]

First of all, they're not pros. Pro is when you are retired. Secondly, if Phil was so professional of a journalist himself, he wouldn't feel the need to sink to speaking the way he does on twitter or anything else. There are so many others that do the same job as him without hitting below the belt at skaters and their families. Alexa didn't exactly deal with it, she's still apologizing and sulking in thinking that it's her fault they lost a spot for their country. I am glad she did say something and so on, but really, there was no reason for Phil to start the war. YMMV

The amateur/pro lines are so blurred at this point that I consider elite senior skaters to be professionals, in the sense that this is their job, they're at the top of their field and are capable of handling the attention and expectations that go along with that.

Alexa isn't the only one responsible for losing a spot, but she is partially responsible. It sucks, but it's true. Phil doesn't need to rub salt in the wound, but it was a single tweet in which he didn't @ the athletes involved, not a nasty question during a press conference. Tasteless and unnecessary, sure.

 

[Moxiejan]

First of all, they're not pros. Pro is when you are retired. Secondly, if Phil was so professional of a journalist himself, he wouldn't feel the need to sink to speaking the way he does on twitter or anything else. There are so many others that do the same job as him without hitting below the belt at skaters and their families. Alexa didn't exactly deal with it, she's still apologizing and sulking in thinking that it's her fault they lost a spot for their country. I am glad she did say something and so on, but really, there was no reason for Phil to start the war. YMMV

They are pros because they earn prize money & appearance fees, plus are allowed to be paid for coaching & representing sponsor companies. Back in the "amateur" days, eligible skaters could be disqualified if they even skated in a local show that had a pro on the ice.

 

[miloandtock1]

Regardless of what Phil Hersh tweeted, look past that and look at the issue the US has had the past 10-15 years in pairs. And look back - I know some fans don't like to or don't remember - but the last time a US pair won an Olympic medal was Jill Watson and Peter Oppegard in 1988! Gone are the days of Starbuck-Shelley, Babilonia-Gardner, the Carruthers...and even Meno-Sand, Ina-Dungjen/Zimmerman. And yes I know a lot of other countries have a developed good pairs teams. And how skills and difficulty has changed..blah blah blah. But we're finishing out of the top 10, and behind North Korea. Even after the horrible crash of 1961, the US had top 10 pairs within a few years.
Where are we losing it? Constant partner changes (But then why is Aliona so successful)? Side by side jumping issues? Laid it out on the table. Make a good flow chart or graphic organizer and be honest about it. Who US seniors are on the rise more or less and in the mix for the next Olympic cycle (don't say Deanna-Nate or Chris-Alexa - sorry but sentimentality cannot play a part) - and let's cultivate them and encourage their partnership to stay together. Who are the top 10 US juniors and novices that need cultivation and support and encouragement - especially with their side by side jumping (seems like 3 lutz or 3 flip are going to be needed), speed and stroking, and I'll say it - a great arched-back death spiral (forward/backward inside/outside)?
Again forget the tweet, whether it was uncalled for or not nice. Forget that and get over it. Phil Hersh has seen a lot of US and world figure skating competitions for 40 years so he may been frustrated and disappointed and remember the fine US pairs of the past who've medalled in world/Olympic competition. And don't feel like you have to protect Alexa-Chris. Because that doesn't address the 800 pound gorilla in the room. US pairs and USFSA have got to do something and start now.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The amateur/pro lines are so blurred at this point that I consider elite senior skaters to be professionals, in the sense that this is their job, they're at the top of their field and are capable of handling the attention and expectations that go along with that.

Alexa isn't the only one responsible for losing a spot, but she is partially responsible. It sucks, but it's true. Phil doesn't need to rub salt in the wound, but it was a single tweet in which he didn't @ the athletes involved, not a nasty question during a press conference. Tasteless and unnecessary, sure.

Just because you qualify them that way doesn’t make it so.

They are pros because they earn prize money & appearance fees, plus are allowed to be paid for coaching & representing sponsor companies. Back in the "amateur" days, eligible skaters could be disqualified if they even skated in a local show that had a pro on the ice.

You might want to let them know that then. And FWIW-pairs skaters aren’t making much of anything since they rep no one and aren’t invited to paying shows such as SOI like their skating counterparts. Like it or not. YMMV.

 

[andromache]

Just because you qualify them that way doesn’t make it so.


You might want to let them know that then. And FWIW-pairs skaters aren’t making much of anything since they rep no one and aren’t invited to paying shows such as SOI like their skating counterparts. Like it or not. YMMV.

If you've trained or studied something for a number of years and that thing is your full-time job, you're a "professional" in that field, regardless of the pro/amateur standards of sports that don't really apply anymore.

I'm not really interested in debating semantics, honestly. Elite skaters aren't in the sport just for fun and personal growth. They're public figures, especially in Olympic years. No one expects them to put up with abuse, harrassment, or personal insults and attacks, but some classless Twitter snark after a bad performance isn't going to make them lose sleep at night. Classless twitter snark is part of being an elite athlete.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If you've trained or studied something for a number of years and that thing is your full-time job, you're a "professional" in that field, regardless of the pro/amateur standards of sports that don't really apply anymore.

I'm not really interested in debating semantics, honestly. Elite skaters aren't in the sport just for fun and personal growth. They're public figures, especially in Olympic years. No one expects them to put up with abuse, harrassment, or personal insults and attacks, but some classless Twitter snark after a bad performance isn't going to make them lose sleep at night. Classless twitter snark is part of being an elite athlete.

If you’ve trained for something and are at the level they are, you’re an elite. I know because I used to skate at that level too. I retired and am a PRO now. It (classification) means something to those who are in it. And I never said Phil was right, I was against him, but just because one gets to elite level doesn’t make it right to be abusive toward them. YMMV.

 

[Moxiejan]

Just because you qualify them that way doesn’t make it so.
You might want to let them know that then. And FWIW-pairs skaters aren’t making much of anything since they rep no one and aren’t invited to paying shows such as SOI like their skating counterparts. Like it or not. YMMV.

Pairs skaters get prize money (in thousands of dollars) at international events. And while U.S. pairs don't get show money, that wouldn't be the case with top European pairs in shows there.

This was not the case before the ISU changed its rules on amateur/professional. It is not my definition; it is theirs.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Pairs skaters get prize money (in thousands of dollars) at international events. And while U.S. pairs don't get show money, that wouldn't be the case with top European pairs in show there.

This was not the case before the ISU changed its rules on amateur/professional. It is not my definition; it is theirs.

I never said they don’t get prize money at times, they are still considered amateur though.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It’s about the leaders of the program! All skaters are part of a much larger program and it’s not an attack on the skaters but the whole establishment of American skating and pairs system! Or lack of one!

If you recall - since the Olympics were ages ago - the Knierims did well in PC in team pairs - better than expected - which helped the US hold off Italy for bronze.

I suppose you think China deserves zero spots in men? Because I'm sure that's Hersh's next tweet....

 

[el henry]

Again: Alexa and Chris weren't the only pair there for the US. It's not their fault the other pair didn't pull their weight too.

Alexa and Chris are not the only reps of the US at this comp, it’s true, but Deanna and Nate definitely “pulled their weight” and scored as well as they could with the elements they had. I’m proud of both our pairs teams here.

ETA: and Alexa and Deanna are quite the mutual admiration society, they have great respect for each other.

None of which detracts from the fact (and this is jumping off and not directed at your post) that Phil’s tweets were not “tough”, they were not “hard hitting commentary”, they were not some sort of reasoned criticism of the US pairs program, they were just stupid and there are a lot of stupid tweets out there, which I can go read if I want, but not from someone who claims to be a journalist.

Oh wellhwell:

 

[moonvine]

...is she at risk of quitting because of it?

If she is, then I really missed an interview or lost track of something, because I seriously had no idea

She posted something on her IG story yesterday. It's white on white so hard to read but something along the lines of "time to face reality" and thanks to all the fans who have been behind them all these years, time to move on to the next chapter, etc. Not so much because of the tweet, but because she feels single handedly responsible for losing the 2nd spot. Which to me is absolutely ridiculous because our number 2 team did not even make the free.

If I could talk to her I'd tell her: reality is you are 2x National Champions. Reality is you are a GP medalist and 4CCs medalist AND an Olympic bronze medalist. It's not like there's someone behind them ready to take their place. It's been a long season and MANY pairs made errors.

IG stories only last 24 hours and there's been no official announcement anywhere. But to this diehard fan, it sounds bad. If I lose them and Gracie in the same year I fear my head will explode.

 

[moonvine]

I never quite see the logic behind the, "If it's so easy, you go do it," argument. If you are having heart surgery and your cardiologist nicks an unclamped artery and you bleed out, the doctor does not have the right to say, "Well if it's so easy, you try it!" Because he is a professional of whom a certain level of performance is expected if he wants to be taken seriously in his field. Pointing out that lack of performance is not being overtly critical, it is highlighting what is wrong with this sport: complacency. Alexa is amazing, and she has always been the more talented skater of that pair. With a different partner, she would be competitive. If the US medaled sixth in gymnastics or swimming, no one would be cheering. Bradie is a lovely skater, but she is not the answer to US figure skating woes, and neither was Karen, and neither was Gracie. The answer will only lie in fixing a culture that is content with sixth place finishes, waving at the Russians and the Japanese as they pass us by.

See, I see that a different way. To me, it's like having a bunch of med students up in the gallery hollering at the surgeon while he's working, then going and blogging about what a horrible surgeon he is, how he doesn't deserve to be a surgeon, and he just shouldn't bother. Alexa will never change partners, obviously. I'm tweeting cat pictures at her in a desperate attempt to cheer her up so she doesn't quit. Let's face it, our #2 team did not even make the free skate. Even though I'm told they skated as well as they could (not that I've seen it yet since NBCSN didn't deign to show it), the best they can skate is evidently not good enough to make the free. As far as Hersh's assertion that one space is "too many" - it was nice to have 2 places so at least there was more international experience gained. Clearly you want to have as many slots as possible. For example, the men, it probably doesn't matter who they sent in the 3rd spot because Nathan and Vincent are very likely to maintain the 3 spots. (I know it's already happened, I am pretending I don't know because I wasn't going to get up at 5 am and watch it. That's what my DVR is for).

 

[onyxrose81]

Haha, Max Aaron just proved it's absolutely important who gets a spot.

 

[NanaPat]

In Phil's zeal to totally abandon US pairs, has he considered the team event at the next Olympics? If they "don't deserve a spot", who does he think is going to skate in the 2022 team event? Or maybe the doesn't think the US deserves to be in the team event? I'm sure Australia would be happy to take their spot.

 

[moonvine]

Weren’t these guys the only pair used for the team event in Korea?
Like...nice way to treat the two people who helped enable everyone else to get the bronze? * Sheesh! What a bitter old man.
Such a contrast to the press conferences post SP and LP in Milan where everyone was treated like and behaved like, you know, sportsmanlike adults.

Yes, they were the only US pair in Korea. They skated the short and long in the team event and of course the short and long in their regular event. They then went to Worlds and, while they did not skate well, they made the free, which our other pairs team did not. And after having seen the splatfest that was the men's event, we lost a spot in men's a spot in ladies, they are not the only people who made a mistake. In fact they fell less than Vincent Zhou.

 

[moonvine]

I never said they don’t get prize money at times, they are still considered amateur though.

I think older people (like me!) may be thinking of the days when you could not skate at the Olympics if you had a sponsor, or coached, or made any money off the sport at all, even a $100. Amateur was make/take no money from your sport in any way. Pro was make/take money from your sport. I don't know how the heck people possibly afforded to skate back then.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think older people (like me!) may be thinking of the days when you could not skate at the Olympics if you had a sponsor, or coached, or made any money off the sport at all, even a $100. I don't know how the heck people possibly afforded to skate back then.

I grew up skating during this time. So yes I know.