- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
ITA.
Plushy's Choreography
- Thread starter Linny
- Start date
Reply to dlkksk8fan - on "Pose"
When watching Plushenko, listen to the music and when he stops and "poses" continue to listen; perhaps the music is going into a different mode and his stopping is showing everyone that something new is going to happen.
Skaters do this; singers and actors do this. It's a "sign" that something else is coming.
The good news it that Plushenko is one of the only skaters who does this well.
Todd Eldredge (sp?) does this well as does MK and Paul Wylie and others.
Plushenko is a master skater. He is just the (current) best in my book.
sh
When watching Plushenko, listen to the music and when he stops and "poses" continue to listen; perhaps the music is going into a different mode and his stopping is showing everyone that something new is going to happen.
Skaters do this; singers and actors do this. It's a "sign" that something else is coming.
The good news it that Plushenko is one of the only skaters who does this well.
Todd Eldredge (sp?) does this well as does MK and Paul Wylie and others.
Plushenko is a master skater. He is just the (current) best in my book.
sh
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
2ndmark said:
Dick has not lamented about his skating last few times I watched him while Dick was commentating. I don't see the arm movements as meaningless (that's what 'flailing of the arms' suggests). There is a purpose to every movement in his program. When he stops, it is to indicate that something new is starting- like a new chapter. He is certainly one of the most talented skater who is also the most criticized. IMO it is because he has his own style, and he does not follow a traditional definition of what is good in choreography. He is involved in his choreography and he brings that conviction to the ice. If quads were the determining criteria, Cheng Jiang Li would have become world champion long ago.
Vash
Vash01 - Dick - and Plushenko
I'd just like to add a comment on "Dick" - is this D. Button?
Everyone, including "Dick" has their own opinion about skating and what it should look like, etc. They're entitled to it, absolutely.
I don't like Rock music, or hard rock, or the new, contemporary Jazz; and that only means that I don't like it. In fact, I can't stand listening to it; I mute commercials, for instance. My dear husband listens to all of it.
Yes, I'm in the art of music performance: Church Music, Organ Performance.
A lot of folks could care less about Church Music and/or Organ Performance, and that's okay. We're all different and we all are entitled to our likes and dislikes.
I, for one, look forward to Plushenko skates. He is just the best right now. He's worked hard to refine his craft as has Brian Boitano and others.
Plushenko, for me, is a treat. I love his moves and I laugh out loud at times, just as I have in the past for Philip Candelino (sp?).
sh
I'd just like to add a comment on "Dick" - is this D. Button?
Everyone, including "Dick" has their own opinion about skating and what it should look like, etc. They're entitled to it, absolutely.
I don't like Rock music, or hard rock, or the new, contemporary Jazz; and that only means that I don't like it. In fact, I can't stand listening to it; I mute commercials, for instance. My dear husband listens to all of it.
Yes, I'm in the art of music performance: Church Music, Organ Performance.
A lot of folks could care less about Church Music and/or Organ Performance, and that's okay. We're all different and we all are entitled to our likes and dislikes.
I, for one, look forward to Plushenko skates. He is just the best right now. He's worked hard to refine his craft as has Brian Boitano and others.
Plushenko, for me, is a treat. I love his moves and I laugh out loud at times, just as I have in the past for Philip Candelino (sp?).
sh
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
He does it so well because he does it so often in his programs. Skating is not singing or acting and yes other skaters stop and pose at times with the music. But with Plushenko my complaint is that he does it numerous times and it disrupts the flow of his skating. How can the judges judge poses? A skating program should be one continuous movement not start, stop, start, stop. Plushenko can pose all he wants but poseing isn't skating.
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Posing
Plus, posing isn't skating. I prefer to see skating. JMO. One pose, maybe two, besides the opening and closing pose is about the limit for me... if they aren't held too long, that's OK, too. After that, I feel like the skater is just resting.
Linny
Plus, posing isn't skating. I prefer to see skating. JMO. One pose, maybe two, besides the opening and closing pose is about the limit for me... if they aren't held too long, that's OK, too. After that, I feel like the skater is just resting.
Linny
dlkksk8fan - Plushenko
"Skating is not singing or acting and yes other skaters stop and pose at times with the music."
Beg to differ with your opinion; except for the "resting." I agree that skaters do things to catch their breath. All of them do. All of them.
Skating is all the performing arts - acting - music - athletics, etc
One is judged on technical and artistry (interpretation of music, etc.); There are some skaters who just skate - and don't pay any attention to the music. They just get out there and skate the technicals.
Consider Briano Boitano, G&G, Ilia Kulik, Alexi Yagudin and other gold metalists who skate to the music and act and dance.
Plushenko just has his own way of doing this; I like it and you don't. That's fair; everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Society includes all types of personalities; each individual is unique.
My guess is that you don't much care for Philipe Candelero, either - or Scott Hamilton - or others in that category. A lot of people love to watch these gold/silver medalists skate.
I do hear what you're saying, by the way. We just disagree, and that's fair.
sh
"Skating is not singing or acting and yes other skaters stop and pose at times with the music."
Beg to differ with your opinion; except for the "resting." I agree that skaters do things to catch their breath. All of them do. All of them.
Skating is all the performing arts - acting - music - athletics, etc
One is judged on technical and artistry (interpretation of music, etc.); There are some skaters who just skate - and don't pay any attention to the music. They just get out there and skate the technicals.
Consider Briano Boitano, G&G, Ilia Kulik, Alexi Yagudin and other gold metalists who skate to the music and act and dance.
Plushenko just has his own way of doing this; I like it and you don't. That's fair; everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Society includes all types of personalities; each individual is unique.
My guess is that you don't much care for Philipe Candelero, either - or Scott Hamilton - or others in that category. A lot of people love to watch these gold/silver medalists skate.
I do hear what you're saying, by the way. We just disagree, and that's fair.
sh
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
shdotz-I'm enjoying these friendly debates 
First of all I want to say that I love all of the skaters (Plushenko included). Being a skater myself I have been in the sport for a long time and have loved it since I was a young girl way back when. I am currently a adult skater still out there jumping and spinning! Anyway back to our friendly debate. What is great about skating is that it is sport and artistry all rolled into one. I appreciate all of the artistry that goes into each program but you have to remember that it is also a sport. IMO leave the excessive theatrics for the exhibition programs.
I'm not sure what skaters you mean by others but I love Scott Hamilton's skating. He got better and better as a professional and is the ultimate show skater IMO.
I guess I am so hard on Plushenko because I hold him to a higher standard then the others. I want to see more then just crossovers into his quad jumps and I want to see spins that are creative and different. His footwork is excellent and he should be doing all of that great footwork straight into his jumps (like Kurt Browning for example). And stop all that posing (save it for the exhibitions)-skate, skate, skate!
First of all I want to say that I love all of the skaters (Plushenko included). Being a skater myself I have been in the sport for a long time and have loved it since I was a young girl way back when. I am currently a adult skater still out there jumping and spinning! Anyway back to our friendly debate. What is great about skating is that it is sport and artistry all rolled into one. I appreciate all of the artistry that goes into each program but you have to remember that it is also a sport. IMO leave the excessive theatrics for the exhibition programs. Well I have to admit that I don't care much for Phillippe Candeloro's skating. With all of his theatrics in his programs I think it hid his lack of good skating technique. As a professional I feel his skating technique didn't improve as others who have gone professional had. I also don't consider taking ones shirt off good skating
I'm not sure what skaters you mean by others but I love Scott Hamilton's skating. He got better and better as a professional and is the ultimate show skater IMO. I guess I am so hard on Plushenko because I hold him to a higher standard then the others. I want to see more then just crossovers into his quad jumps and I want to see spins that are creative and different. His footwork is excellent and he should be doing all of that great footwork straight into his jumps (like Kurt Browning for example). And stop all that posing (save it for the exhibitions)-skate, skate, skate!
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Plushenko has variety. He may have more footwork in his exhbitions but when it comes to competitions his goal is to win and that's what he does. He can experiment all he wants in exhibitions. I admire his focus.
I never cared for Candeloro. The only time I liked him was at the 1998 Olympics LP (it was a heartbreak to see Todd lose the bronze though), and may be the 1994 Oly LP (though I got sick of the Godfather number). I don't care for Hamilton's skating either. He is not skating anymore, just acting.
I would not compare Plushenko with these two. Scott belongs to another generation- the figures generation. Candeloro was never technically good. Plushenko is rock solid technically and he is a performer. He really has it all.
It does not mean he cannot get better, but everything takes time. The most important thing is he is still winning.
Vash
I never cared for Candeloro. The only time I liked him was at the 1998 Olympics LP (it was a heartbreak to see Todd lose the bronze though), and may be the 1994 Oly LP (though I got sick of the Godfather number). I don't care for Hamilton's skating either. He is not skating anymore, just acting.
I would not compare Plushenko with these two. Scott belongs to another generation- the figures generation. Candeloro was never technically good. Plushenko is rock solid technically and he is a performer. He really has it all.
It does not mean he cannot get better, but everything takes time. The most important thing is he is still winning.
Vash
dlkksk8fan - Plushenko
Just learned that I don't know how to spell Candeloro"s name; sorry.
Well, I see that we do agree on some things.
(what is "IMO")
The quads are done to obtain points. I think quads are somewhat of a mistake because they have caused far too many injuries on skaters who can no longer skate as a result of trauma to their hips. That's not entirely true because some have turned pro and are doing well; they're just not doing quads anymore.
Certainly I can understand your frustration because of what you're not "seeing" when Plushenko skates.
I just love to watch him skate - and maybe if he did do more creative spinning, etc., I would want that, too. He is just superior compared to his competition in the men's league.
Alexi is my other favorite skater, even though he turned pro; and I like the skaters I've already mentioned as well as Todd Eldredge.
It's just really great to see great skating. I listen to the music and watch movements to feel the expressions of the skaters. For me, it's soothing and relaxing.
What I don't like are skaters who just get on the ice and skate. Well, you know what I mean.
G&G are my all-time favorites; since they are no more, I like the Chinese couple (can't spell their names, but they are No. 1 right now) and Sale and Pelltier (sp?); used to be I liked the Russian couple who are now with SOI, but they're past their prime.
I agree with you about them taking their shirts off, etc. I don't particularly like that either, but that's "show Biz."
sh
Just learned that I don't know how to spell Candeloro"s name; sorry.
Well, I see that we do agree on some things.
(what is "IMO")
The quads are done to obtain points. I think quads are somewhat of a mistake because they have caused far too many injuries on skaters who can no longer skate as a result of trauma to their hips. That's not entirely true because some have turned pro and are doing well; they're just not doing quads anymore.
Certainly I can understand your frustration because of what you're not "seeing" when Plushenko skates.
I just love to watch him skate - and maybe if he did do more creative spinning, etc., I would want that, too. He is just superior compared to his competition in the men's league.
Alexi is my other favorite skater, even though he turned pro; and I like the skaters I've already mentioned as well as Todd Eldredge.
It's just really great to see great skating. I listen to the music and watch movements to feel the expressions of the skaters. For me, it's soothing and relaxing.
What I don't like are skaters who just get on the ice and skate. Well, you know what I mean.
G&G are my all-time favorites; since they are no more, I like the Chinese couple (can't spell their names, but they are No. 1 right now) and Sale and Pelltier (sp?); used to be I liked the Russian couple who are now with SOI, but they're past their prime.
I agree with you about them taking their shirts off, etc. I don't particularly like that either, but that's "show Biz."
sh
ceg15 said:I agree- His choreography didn't seem to make much sense to me either. Who is his choreographer? He's a very talented, amazing skater though. (Not a fan of the hair.
His choreographers for this season are Sergei Petukhov who is D&S and Pet&Tik choreographer and Edward Smirnov who has worked for many years for Mishin. If you look back in competitions from 98-99 he used to sit in the K&C with Mishin and Plush. He is the one who did Plush programs until 2000, then he did Carmen.
His two programs are for what I understand Petukhov programs but Smirnov had made some adjustments to them.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Yagudini and Eldredge are two of my favorite male skaters too! :yes:
G&G one of my favorites too, sadly no more
Shen & Zhao by far one of the best pairs team ever. :agree:
(IMO-in my opinion)
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2003
I agree that what Plushenko does works for him. Although as many have also said he is so much better than this program.
However I would love to see hi9m experiment with more different styles. It should be interesting to sewe his programs later if he ever turns pro.
However I would love to see hi9m experiment with more different styles. It should be interesting to sewe his programs later if he ever turns pro.
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Vash01 - on B & S
I say, "past their prime" with great reluctance.
They are beautiful to watch, even from the beginning when they first skated together; I have them on a lot of tapes because I do so love to view their beauty.
Are they now professionals? I think so. Past their Prime? They'd have to put a lot of energy for a lot of months to compete with eligibles again. I think they've done their thing and are happy where they're at. Everytime I see them skate in pro-competition there's an error or two, and that's been even before the Olympics. Something's missing.
I remember when Boitano and several others were invited to again skate in Olympics. Of all the former gold medalists, only G&G recieved a medal and of course it was GOLD. They were the best of the best.
So it would be fair to also say that Boitano is past his prime even though he skates beautifully even now.
My comment was not meant to be demeaning, rather to accept that B&S will never again skate for a medal. S&P beat them on all fo the pro skates - at least all the ones I've seen, and I do try to tape them all.
Skating is one of my passions.
sh
I say, "past their prime" with great reluctance.
They are beautiful to watch, even from the beginning when they first skated together; I have them on a lot of tapes because I do so love to view their beauty.
Are they now professionals? I think so. Past their Prime? They'd have to put a lot of energy for a lot of months to compete with eligibles again. I think they've done their thing and are happy where they're at. Everytime I see them skate in pro-competition there's an error or two, and that's been even before the Olympics. Something's missing.
I remember when Boitano and several others were invited to again skate in Olympics. Of all the former gold medalists, only G&G recieved a medal and of course it was GOLD. They were the best of the best.
So it would be fair to also say that Boitano is past his prime even though he skates beautifully even now.
My comment was not meant to be demeaning, rather to accept that B&S will never again skate for a medal. S&P beat them on all fo the pro skates - at least all the ones I've seen, and I do try to tape them all.
Skating is one of my passions.
sh
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
shdotz said:
What's missing is just what is missing for all the pros- serious competiton that rewards the right thing. The pro competitions they were in were a joke! S&P's wins were a joke when they could not even do a simple sbs jump and B&S nailed them. In the most recent competitions B&S actually skated great and S&P had a couple of mistakes but they were given equal marks. Note that 2 out of the 4 competitions were in Canada. About mistakes- B&S were never known for perfection every time but what they did often overcame those mistakes. Just because you saw them make mistakes is not an indication of their being past the prime (and I have all the tapes too!).
Of course they would need to put several months of practice if they wanted to compete against the eligibles. That is true of all pros- no exceptions there. Again, that does not indicate that they are past their prime. It is just that they have chosen a different life style and a different direction for their skating, and they have evolved in a different direction.
About G&G's gold medal also an argument can be made. As much as I love them and they really skated great- better than in 1988 when they were perfect-, but M&D were just a bit better and cleaner. However, nobody complained about G&G's gold medal after an imperfect skate.
It is totally wrong to compare Boitano's being past his prime with B&S who are definitely not past theirs. Boitano has had many injuries over the years and he has been skating much longer. It is understandable if his body cannot handle the pounding to compete against the current eligibles but we are talking of 1988 vs. 2005 now! B&S have been pro just a couple of years and they have evolved as pros. Even after turning pro they were able to do the difficult pairs elements like sbs tripel jumps. If they are not in the eligibles it is by choice and not because they cannot. I can't say the same about S&P who were overhyped in the first place.
Boitano really lost the opportunity for a gold in 94 because of a freak fall on a triple axel- something he did not miss once in practices. In 1994 he was definitely competitive and one of the favorites to win.
You sound extremely prejudiced against B&S when you single them out as 'being past their prime'.
Vash
