All the talk about spelling bees make me want to watch Spellbound this weekend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellbound_(2002_film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellbound_(2002_film)
:agree:
The mental aspect is a big part of all sport, this one especially. There are certain skaters who always skate well under relatively little pressure but never skate well under immense pressure. You can't describe that skater without describing the mental component. I don't think that I am a "hater", but the term "headcase" seems to apply to at least a few of them. Trying to figure out the mental aspect is an integral part of accurately understanding the sport. The mental aspect is a fact of the sport. Are we just supposed to ignore the reality of it?
Even the best and highest-winning skaters occasionally get mental blow-outs. Some skaters, we all know, get them more frequently. (We each have our own list and I am not going to give you mine. ) It does not mean that they are bad skaters, but it does mean that they have mental issues affecting their competitive standing (at least at a particular time). I can't imagine anyone on this board, when making predictions about who is going to win which event, not taking into account the mental state of the skater based on their past performances. And if there actually is, I would love to wager a few bets with them.
Regarding the term headcase, whether it is used properly or improperly, nicely or in hate, it depends on the nature and motive of the user. It can be appropriate and it can be used without mal-intent. I don't think that I have ever used it (although I may have), but I sure have thought it. There are "haters", very true, and they over-use terms like "headcase", but I don't think that they would be slowed down without the term being there. As well, the term can be used in contexts of fair objectivity (or at least in a way that is as objective as an opinion or perception can be).
This is a competitive sport. People judge the competitors and they can't help but assess the mental aspect, as best as possible, of the skaters over time based on performance. It is part of the way we rank the skaters. Anyone who cannot handle that should not compete as a skater and maybe not even in sports. I respect the compassion and kindness of the contrary opinion, but I cannot agree with it. Sorry.
It must be genetic. People of Indian origin tend to dominate in IT and law too ... all require some kind of logical thinking skills? And oops.. memory too.Off topic, but speaking of spelling bees, why are Indian children better spellers than anyone else in the U.S.?
The last six winners of the National Spelling Bee are Sameer Mishra, Kavya Shivashankar, Anamika Veeramani, Sukanya Roy, Snigdha Nandipati, and Arvind Mahankali (edging out Vismaya Kharkar (6th), Vanya Shivashankar (sister of Kavya, 5th), Nikitha Chandran, Amber Born (!!!, 4th), Sriram Hathwar (bronze), and Pranav Sivakumar (silver).
Me, I'm too much of a head case to watch the National Spelling Bee on TV. It makes me too nervous. :yes:
I THINK 'Pakistan' was part of the India until they broke away to form a different state to cater for the majority Muslims?golden said:And I would add that of the spellers whom you listed, I'm pretty sure that one or more actually is of Pakistani -- as opposed to Indian -- descent
Off topic, but speaking of spelling bees, why are Indian children better spellers than anyone else in the U.S.?
The last six winners of the National Spelling Bee are Sameer Mishra, Kavya Shivashankar, Anamika Veeramani, Sukanya Roy, Snigdha Nandipati, and Arvind Mahankali (edging out Vismaya Kharkar (6th), Vanya Shivashankar (sister of Kavya, 5th), Nikitha Chandran, Amber Born (!!!, 4th), Sriram Hathwar (bronze), and Pranav Sivakumar (silver)
Not sure that is the best word choice. In the U.S., the phrase "mental issues" typically refers to actual mental illness. Performance anxiety is not a mental illness.
I don't think of it that way. I think of "issues" simply as problems in a certain area. There are a lot of human experiences or traits that I'd call "mental/emotional/psychological issues" that wouldn't qualify someone for some mental disorder diagnosis. What other term could one use to refer to a problem that has to do with the mind? (Honest question. If there's a term that doesn't make people think "mentally ill" it'd be useful to know what it is.)
As for the original topic, guess I agree with phaeljones that I don't really think there's anything wrong with talking about the mental side of competing. It's a major factor, after all. However, it does go too far when people act as if being a "tough competitor" or a "headcase" is some fixed trait that doesn't change, rather than just a reflection of where the skater is at right now. A skater known for being a "tough competitor" might begin to struggle when circumstances change (they become a defending world champion, for example, and deal with being "the hunted"), or a "headcase" skater might gain confidence and experience and become more consistent. There are also different factors that people might struggle with: one skater might be skate well at nationals but have trouble on the world stage, while another would feel more pressure at home. One might be consistent for years and crumble at the Olympics; another might be erratic for years and have the skate of their life at the Olympics. So I do think labeling one as tough/fragile can be problematic.
I wonder sometimes about the most artistic yet notoriously inconsistent skaters. Do they have an artistic temperament that makes it hard for them to coach or be consistent?
... I THINK 'Pakistan' was part of the India until they broke away to form a different state to cater for the majority Muslims?
I think sometimes it's hard to understand why you can watch a skater do beautiful jumps during warm ups... and then they go out and bomb their jumps in the program. I think skating is just frustrating because the audience naturally wants an explanation for why someone isn't performing well, and the idea that they are folding under pressure is the simplest explanation that most people jump to. If you're more knowledgable about skating, then maybe you look at other issues and take time to listen to what skaters are saying in their interviews. .... Maybe Max Aaron is doing too many quads, maybe he's doing too many jumps too late in his program. ...
... What must also be recognized, IMO, is that there are very few public events, whether they be skating, or dance, or baseball, or spelling bees, which do not incorporate some communal notions of what is good or bad, better or worse, what wins or loses.
The vast majority of the audience do not spend time savoring, in even a local spelling bee, the creative ways in which a word can be (mis)spelled, except, perhaps, the parents of the offender, and maybe her third-grade boyfriend. ...
Sure, I can appreciate those who did not win but demonstrated excellence in some way, but I believe that we need to give "winning" its pride of place, not least because the skaters themselves do.
... I think it's more about consistency and mental toughness-- to me that means being a good competitor. I know what people mean by headcase but how about finding another, more appropriate word for it. Why not just say "She's inconsistent".
All "inconsistencies" stem from lack of training and/or lack of physical talent to a degree. ...
... I think we ask a lot of these kids, in a way. To be a successful competitor at this sport, you'd have to be an extreme extrovert, feeling no nervousness at being judged or having no performance anxiety being in front of a crowd. But you'd also have to be an extreme introvert to give up most of your teenage social life to spend time in a rink with adults working on which way your foot is leaning on your lutz. It's a rare person who can be both.
There is a term. I gave it to you: performance anxiety. It is a natural phenomenon caused by adrenaline in a high stress situation before any type of public performance--dramatic, musical, sports, public speaking, etc...I also gave you an example of how that anxiety can be worse in one situation than another--my perfect play cast performing in front of family and friends that turns into an error riddled bundle of nerves in front of competition judges.
I don't think of it that way. I think of "issues" simply as problems in a certain area. There are a lot of human experiences or traits that I'd call "mental/emotional/psychological issues" that wouldn't qualify someone for some mental disorder diagnosis. What other term could one use to refer to a problem that has to do with the mind? (Honest question. If there's a term that doesn't make people think "mentally ill" it'd be useful to know what it is.) ...
Not sure that is the best word choice. In the U.S., the phrase "mental issues" typically refers to actual mental illness. Performance anxiety is not a mental illness.
.
Am not criticizing Rachmaninoff for her/his choice of words.
That said, I would propose "factors," the word that I used above, as an alternative to placate those who insist that "issues" could have no interpretation other than "pathological issues." (Like Rachmaninoff, I myself consider "issues" to be a more neutral term. :confused2
I really, really hate the word "headcase." So diminishing, dismissive, and many times inaccurate, but it's used with alarming frequency to describe figure skaters. I wish it would stop.
.... In the U.S., the phrase "mental issues" typically refers to actual mental illness.
When I said mental issues, I did not mean "mental illness". Sorry if the context was not understood or misunderstood. I was not aware that the terms were used in the United States as interchangeable and identical. I am not an American. The two terms "mental illness" and "mental issues" are not necessarily identical, to my knowledge, in Canada. (I actually made some phone calls to check on this with people I know who work in the medical field.) Mental issue is a broader term and encompasses more than mental illness, and I hope that it would be clear from the context of what I wrote that I was not saying that performance anxiety is a mental illness. For here on in, I shall use the term "psychological issues" or (as ICD wonderfully used) "psychological aspect" so that there may be peace between the nations and the contributors from within them.
... Really, I've been interacting with U.S.-based posters online pretty much since the internet became popular, and of course here in Canada we get a lot of American media (TV shows, magazines, etc.) and this the first I've heard that "issues" equals "mentally ill." I mean, I know people sometimes might refer to someone who may be mentally ill as having "issues" if they want to be delicate and indirect, but that isn't the real meaning of the term.
Off topic, but speaking of spelling bees, why are Indian children better spellers than anyone else in the U.S.?
The last six winners of the National Spelling Bee are Sameer Mishra, Kavya Shivashankar, Anamika Veeramani, Sukanya Roy, Snigdha Nandipati, and Arvind Mahankali (edging out Vismaya Kharkar (6th), Vanya Shivashankar (sister of Kavya, 5th), Nikitha Chandran, Amber Born (!!!, 4th), Sriram Hathwar (bronze), and Pranav Sivakumar (silver).
Me, I'm too much of a head case to watch the National Spelling Bee on TV. It makes me too nervous. :yes:
I disagree that you can't necessarily tell what is in a skater's mind. If you sit there and watch practice after pratice and the person does beautiful jumps and wonderful flowing run-throughs, and then that person shows up for the competition stiff as a board, splating throughout, I think it's fair to say they have a problem with nerves.
Plus, the people commentating have been there.
As spectators of sports, we speculate on what is going on. The speculation can go over the top, but when it doesn't, it's part of the fun of spectating.
:agree:
The mental aspect is a big part of all sport, this one especially. There are certain skaters who always skate well under relatively little pressure but never skate well under immense pressure. You can't describe that skater without describing the mental component. I don't think that I am a "hater", but the term "headcase" seems to apply to at least a few of them. Trying to figure out the mental aspect is an integral part of accurately understanding the sport. The mental aspect is a fact of the sport. Are we just supposed to ignore the reality of it?
Even the best and highest-winning skaters occasionally get mental blow-outs. Some skaters, we all know, get them more frequently. (We each have our own list and I am not going to give you mine. ) It does not mean that they are bad skaters, but it does mean that they have mental issues affecting their competitive standing (at least at a particular time). I can't imagine anyone on this board, when making predictions about who is going to win which event, not taking into account the mental state of the skater based on their past performances. And if there actually is, I would love to wager a few bets with them.
Regarding the term headcase, whether it is used properly or improperly, nicely or in hate, it depends on the nature and motive of the user. It can be appropriate and it can be used without mal-intent. I don't think that I have ever used it (although I may have), but I sure have thought it. There are "haters", very true, and they over-use terms like "headcase", but I don't think that they would be slowed down without the term being there. As well, the term can be used in contexts of fair objectivity (or at least in a way that is as objective as an opinion or perception can be).
This is a competitive sport. People judge the competitors and they can't help but assess the mental aspect, as best as possible, of the skaters over time based on performance. It is part of the way we rank the skaters. Anyone who cannot handle that should not compete as a skater and maybe not even in sports. I respect the compassion and kindness of the contrary opinion, but I cannot agree with it. Sorry.