Repeating Programs - Pros and Cons

[mrfarmer]

My two cents in this is that I would like for new programs each year. I've always admired Yuna Kim for showing up with two new programs every year, even though some of them didn't "click" as much as they would. But I'm also not opposed to skaters re-using a previous program and revamping it.

I just learned here that Shoma Uno is reusing his Turandot. I thought his FS last season to Piazolla was several kinds of amazing, although the community was divided in their opinions with it. I liked it, and it made me a fan. I enjoyed his skating the year before, but Piazolla and that screaming lady did it for me. (Give me a well-skated tango, and I'm gonna be your fan lol) Going back to Turandot is understandable, as this kind of music can be magic on a stage like the Olympics. But in my heart, I want him to do a Saint Saents, or another tango.

Yuzu doing his Chopin for the third time, is, well... I hope he revamps it a way that no one will see coming, but I'm not holding my breath for that. I liked his intensity in Seimei and vulnerability in Hope and Legacy and I'm thinking he should continue doing Japanese pieces. Something traditional - intense beats, and airy strings, maybe?

Ashley doing Hip Hip Chin Chin, I kind of expected. Good for her and I still think it should have won the SP in Worlds that year. Or in the top 2.

Who else are reusing their old music this year?

 

[Barb]

But La La Land is new; give it time. At best, it will be overused for a year or two then fade into obscurity. At worst, well....

Exactly, give it time. I have no doubts that it will be an overused music, but right now people are acting like if it was already overused.

 

[moriel]

Exactly, give it time. I have no doubts that it will be an overused music, but right now people are acting like if it was already overused.

Its not that its overused already... What we mean is that it is not different and standing out.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I don't believe a general rule really factors into my view on this topic. Some programs may not reach their potential and be received well a season or two later. I'm sure the opposite is true and some programs may seem recycled. Nothing new here. I'd like to see where the skater could effective use the SP as a cliffhanger somehow that makes you want to see the how the FS, which shares the same theme or concept, finishes. Not sure I have ideas how this would be successful but it sounds cool. Any ideas?

 

[moriel]

I don't believe a general rule really factors into my view on this topic. Some programs may not reach their potential and be received well a season or two later. I'm sure the opposite is true and some programs may seem recycled. Nothing new here. I'd like to see where the skater could effective use the SP as a cliffhanger somehow that makes you want to see the how the FS, which shares the same theme or concept, finishes. Not sure I have ideas how this would be successful but it sounds cool. Any ideas?

This sounds very tricky, specially because on major competitions we have 20+ skaters. Which means the SP must be memorable enough so we remember it when it comes to FS. Very few skaters could actually pull that. Also, that probably requires consistency as major mistakes in one program would mess it up.

 

[Sugarpova]

I feel like its too much LaLaLand already after I read some prog announcements (& I actually like some songs there)

 

[gkelly]

I don't believe a general rule really factors into my view on this topic. Some programs may not reach their potential and be received well a season or two later. I'm sure the opposite is true and some programs may seem recycled. Nothing new here. I'd like to see where the skater could effective use the SP as a cliffhanger somehow that makes you want to see the how the FS, which shares the same theme or concept, finishes. Not sure I have ideas how this would be successful but it sounds cool. Any ideas?

Like Philippe Candeloro's young Godfather SP and Godfather FS in 1994, followed by old Godfather in 1995?

 

[Ender]

I don't believe a general rule really factors into my view on this topic. Some programs may not reach their potential and be received well a season or two later. I'm sure the opposite is true and some programs may seem recycled. Nothing new here. I'd like to see where the skater could effective use the SP as a cliffhanger somehow that makes you want to see the how the FS, which shares the same theme or concept, finishes. Not sure I have ideas how this would be successful but it sounds cool. Any ideas?

Like what Asada did last season?

 

[NanaPat]

I think Zhiganshina / Gazsi did some programs where the SD and FD were linked. Maybe 2014? I believe they portrayed the same characters in both dances.

 

[LRK]

Denis' The Artist?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

People have done it for sure...I'm just maybe saying I'd like to see more and maybe even find ways to alter the choreography to alter the ending from event to event. Maybe I'm stretching here a bit but if we're going to see repeats there is nothing that says a skater who endures tragedy in one event couldn't change the FS to end in triumph. Guess I'm just thinking out loud :

 

[gkelly]

Most skaters are more interested in repeating the program as close to technically perfect as they can get in every runthrough and every performance, to built muscle memory that will serve them well under pressure. They'll make changes over the course of a season, or from one season to another if repeating a program, to try to make the program work better for them technically or to showcase new skills or to try to make it build more effectively in pursuit of better PCS. Those would be intentional changes decided on and then practiced the same way for weeks or months leading up to the next competition.

But skaters who frequently change their programs from week to week or from one performance to the next will often be skaters who have a harder time performing consistently in competition -- because they haven't been practicing the same program consistently.

Skating well in competition, while attempting the highest level of difficulty they're realistically capable of, usually means trying to skate the same every time. With high difficulty, the technical elements are always the risk factor that may lead to differences from one event to the next.

Intentionally aiming to do something different each time as a reward for regular viewers who watch the skater perform their program at multiple competitions over the year, and rewatch some of the same competitions every year, is not a good recipe for consistent results.

Bringing something new to every performance is more appropriate for show situations -- and even then, only for shows that expect a large number of repeat audience members. A performer who's doing 8 shows a week on Broadway or on a cross-country or around-the-world tour is nto going to change the show on a regular basis just for the benefit of a few spectators who might keep coming back or rewtching videos of the show..

 

[bevybean]

Bringing something new to every performance is more appropriate for show situations -- and even then, only for shows that expect a large number of repeat audience members. A performer who's doing 8 shows a week on Broadway or on a cross-country or around-the-world tour is not going to change the show on a regular basis just for the benefit of a few spectators who might keep coming back or rewatching videos of the show..

Not very likely to be done in a show situation either, because of the technical aspect (technical meaning that of the show not the skater's ability). A change in the program could mean a change in the lighting for each show. And no Lighting Designer or Master Electrician is going to be happy about doing that. Depending on the tour, there might not be time to put the new cues into place anyway. Which is not even considering the extra money it could potentially cost to do it.

 

[Skater Boy]

The scoring system actually suggests, in my opinion, doing the same program is really not good or bad. It is marked according to that performance. Of course, in ice dance there are rules on the OD so reusing programs is unlikely ie. a tango and hip hop - can't really use the smae program. When you look at even great skaters like Kwan most reruse their program so to speak in respect to same spiral, spins, jumps footwork and sadly most programs look kind of the same. I mean Javier and Candelero are going to be the rogue or character piece, Chan is the sensitive artist or sublime artist, hanyu is the more extrinsic mad artist, you can count on the Boitano stares, the Kwan, Cohen or Kerrigan spiral. Very few can transcend themselves into truly different styles and programs.
Virtue and Moir are exceptions perhaps. But most have a rather generic or rather patterned looke - you have a style and whether it be tango or ballet it is still you. The key advantage of reusing programs is knowing it well to get smoother elements and really selling the program because you know it well.

 

[SleepyShawn]

Yuzu doing his Chopin for the third time, is, well... I hope he revamps it a way that no one will see coming, but I'm not holding my breath for that. I liked his intensity in Seimei and vulnerability in Hope and Legacy and I'm thinking he should continue doing Japanese pieces. Something traditional - intense beats, and airy strings, maybe?

Never been a fan of his Chopin sp. Not because of him. It's the awkward music cut that gets me every time. Chopin is in my everyday playlist and I just cannot stand his music being treated that way, especially his ballade (which is supposed to be theatrical and narrative imo, but the weird cut ruined everything for me). Yes I understand there's a time restriction, but I really hope he could use a better cut/edition next time if he chooses to reuse and revamp that program.

Traditional string music would be a good choice for him, because it actually resonates with the meaning of his name "Yuzuru"!

 

[mrfarmer]

Never been a fan of his Chopin sp. Not because of him. It's the awkward music cut that gets me every time. Chopin is in my everyday playlist and I just cannot stand his music being treated that way, especially his ballade (which is supposed to be theatrical and narrative imo, but the weird cut ruined everything for me). Yes I understand there's a time restriction, but I really hope he could use a better cut/edition next time if he chooses to reuse and revamp that program.

Traditional string music would be a good choice for him, because it actually resonates with the meaning of his name "Yuzuru"!

Oh, what does his name mean?

 

[SleepyShawn]

Oh, what does his name mean?

結 means to connect or tie, and 弦 means bowstring or string of some sort (like on a violin). So the whole meaning would be something like a formed, tight-pulled string. It might sound weird in English because the translation doesn't do it justice, but from the perspective of a Japanese/Chinese speaker, his name actually sounds quite elegant and unique. For me it also gives an ancient feeling because there are certain traditional instruments made of strings and wood.

That's why it would be so cool if he actually skates to some kind of traditional instrumental (string) music

 

[karne]

So Hanyu is recycling both programs?

Okay then...

 

[Ender]

So Hanyu is recycling both programs?

Okay then...

The movie has a long list of songs for new music cuts.

 

[nocturnalis]

So Hanyu is recycling both programs?

Okay then...

The mistake isn't repeating Seimei, it was not waiting to use Seimei for the Olympic year. I don't know what he thought could surpass Seimei thematically.