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- Feb 23, 2014
Russia Doping Report
- Thread starter cruzceleste
- Start date
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- Feb 10, 2014
Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions regarding steroid use and growth inhibitors.
The reason I asked about steroids is because they do have some medical uses - among other things they can reduce inflammation. So for example, I once got a horrid case of poison ivy after volunteering on a project to clean up a park in the Bronx. It was so severe that I had to take several rounds of steroids. I absolutely hated it because my temper became very short. But the medicine did help. Similarly, I believe they are sometimes used to treat people with colitis or related issues. That's really all I know about them, and I have no idea how similar they are to steroids that might be used to help a muscle tear heal, or that might be abused by an athlete for performance reasons.
As to a growth inhibitor, as someone who is only about 5' tall, the idea makes me laugh (because being short can be inconvenient). But I can see that delayed growth might theoretically be advantageous to a female pairs skater, for example. But I wasn't able to imagine a scenario where it would benefit a male skater.
In case I was unclear, I'm not advocating for the use of these drugs, just wondering about them.
The reason I asked about steroids is because they do have some medical uses - among other things they can reduce inflammation. So for example, I once got a horrid case of poison ivy after volunteering on a project to clean up a park in the Bronx. It was so severe that I had to take several rounds of steroids. I absolutely hated it because my temper became very short. But the medicine did help. Similarly, I believe they are sometimes used to treat people with colitis or related issues. That's really all I know about them, and I have no idea how similar they are to steroids that might be used to help a muscle tear heal, or that might be abused by an athlete for performance reasons.
As to a growth inhibitor, as someone who is only about 5' tall, the idea makes me laugh (because being short can be inconvenient). But I can see that delayed growth might theoretically be advantageous to a female pairs skater, for example. But I wasn't able to imagine a scenario where it would benefit a male skater.
In case I was unclear, I'm not advocating for the use of these drugs, just wondering about them.
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- Aug 1, 2011
I'm surprised to have been a silent member for so long only to have this as my first post. I competed in athletics from childhood through university so doping in sport is a topic I take very seriously, having seen it in action, and I wanted to voice my opinion on the subject.
Before I go further, I need to say something; when I read posts where Russians are referred to in extremes such as "scary" it makes me sad. I recall how ALL Canadians have to put up with Ben Johnson remarks decades later when athletes from all over the world have since done similar, or much worse, than Johnson did in his day. I realize the current controversy concerns Russia but Russian athletes, and Russians in general, don't deserve to be labelled a nation of outrageous cheaters in comparison to everyone else. If the latest WADA investigation holds truth - and I expect it does - then Russia is simply the country that got caught this time. While there are differing degrees of corruption, don't be naive enough to assume they're alone in widespread or even state-sponsored doping.
Many athletes, and those in the know concerning performance enhancing drugs (PEDs), often casually refer to doping controls as an IQ test. Only the dumb and lazy get caught. It's actually a bit more complicated than that; an effective doping program requires funding and professional overseers - doctors, trainers, etc - to slip by unnoticed at elite levels. Also remember that testing can only catch what is known to be in use and has been studied to discover screening methods for. Doping developments are always at least two steps ahead of testing capabilities, hence why so many cases come to light only years later, if ever. When testing facilities are compromised, be that by intimidation, payoff or questionable integrity, and when friends/family hide evidence by lies or deliberate omission, then it gets even harder to know who is using what and why.
Elite, well-funded athletes have 'programs' which encompass different PED schedules timed to competition and peak performance at key events. Freelancers, those who try to run such a program without close supervision, and athletes representing small or poorly funded federations are usually the ones getting caught and they often find themselves used as examples of anti-doping effectiveness when the stars at the top of the chain are the bigger offenders, sometimes (though rarely nowadays) without total knowledge of the pharmaceutical power behind them or clear understanding of potential consequences.
It starts young, younger than most people want to believe. Promising junior, or even younger, athletes are often encouraged by people in authority positions to begin doping in order to reach their potential - the "You have to, because everyone else will" talk.
When big names - individuals, organizations or even countries - get caught it's usually one of two scenarios; a former insider scapegoated or shortchanged along the way talks or success leads to arrogance spawning incredulity. Going for increasingly ridiculous records, openly flaunting inexplicable success, lax secrecy and forgetting the rules have to at least appear to apply to everyone is how investigations like the one currently happening start.
PED use is everywhere. There are no 100% clean sports so long as money and prestige are part of the reward. Individuals are motivated to dope for fame and fortune, out of competitive drive to win at all costs or simply because they don't believe it to be wrong.* Teams do it for money and rankings. Nations do it for patriotic propaganda. Sports are big business, including at the semi-pro and Olympic levels, and there's a LOT of money to be made in performance enhancement.
Every sport has different physical attributes that correlate with success. Is there doping in skating? Almost certainly. Endurance, suppressed/delayed physical maturation, strength, explosive power for jumps and throws, recovery aids and over-training injury prevention...there are all kinds of directions researchers can explore. How far developments have progressed is something most can only guess at and those who know the answer are unlikely to willingly share their knowledge.
* And they aren't alone. The percentage of spectators who willingly accept PED use in exchange for bigger, stronger and faster results, who see doping as just one more training method, is increasing. Society is starting to take an "everyone is doing it, so why fight scientific progress" attitude.
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Sorry for the lengthy ramble. It's just that, as I began with, I care about this topic. I want clean and fair sport - and, unlike many, I advocate for no exceptions, strict enforcement of the anti-doping rules (sorry, Caro) - but personal experience has shown me that we may be past the point where such can ever be restored. That hasn't changed my love of competition, and I still enjoy watching records fall and new milestones achieved, but I know why some of it is happening and have to accept that.
I'll go back to quietly lurking now. Carry on conversing, folks.
It's a helluva first post.
You should venture into the playing field more often! 
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^plus a great username 
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- Aug 1, 2011
^plus a great username
Thank you! I like it!
Oh wait, you're not talking about me. Uh. Never mind.
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The percentage of spectators who willingly accept PED use in exchange for bigger, stronger and faster results, who see doping as just one more training method, is increasing. Society is starting to take an "everyone is doing it, so why fight scientific progress" attitude.
Sadly, I have to agree with you. I am not one of those spectators but I am old. If an athlete engages in dog fighting, or is convicted of beating a spouse, or cheating, or a judge is found guilty of cheating for that matter, there is no mercy in my book....they are out forever. Why? Because we are raising generations of kids who look up to some of these athletes as role models...do we want a generation of spectators who want drugged up competitors? Lance Armstrong got exactly what he deserved. And if it can be shown that there is state sponsored PED cheating, let the axe fall. If we dont believe in right and wrong,then what do we stand for? For instance, Child porn is bad. Very Bad. And so is sexting....Are there any parents left out there? Anyone teaching children right from wrong? Do we even have a right and wrong anymore? There is a certain Canadian figure skater turned coach who was banned in Canada for soliciting young girls. So what does he do? He comes to the US and coaches. And we let him. Just like we let cheating Oly judges still judge. What have we become? I can let some things slide....animal cruelty, beating significant others, and chasing under aged kids I can not. And willful and knowing cheating.
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- Apr 14, 2014
Can someone tl;dr this? I want to know more, but with exams coming up, I really just wanna know the gist of it
Key Points plus 60 second video
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- Apr 14, 2014
Huh?!
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- Aug 8, 2009
The YOU is not you, TheGrandSophy. Only the poster who I refer to as YOU knows what I'm talking about. Long Live Free Speech! Am I allowed to say that here, I wonder?
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- Feb 24, 2012
I read this and though wow this is terrible. And then I read the article and I thought "wow this is terrible". Oksana's situation was not the malice situation they were talking about and to suggest it and suggest "it must include figure skaters" with the reference to Russia is dangerous. If we want to talk about cheating then maybe and I am not suggesting we should look at what is amateur sport. Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Michelle Kwan making millions while "amateur" or Olympic eligible. Cheating can happen anywhere to anyone. I don't think the mis taking of a medication given by doctor is what we are talking about in "real" cheating and then to label it as rampant or a real issue with Russian figure skating or any skating. That is dangerous. Of course we want a clean sport but sadly clean is often in the eye of the beholder. I think it is important though not to jump the gun and start pointing fingers. Can you imagine if our world took this approach to one another - what a horrible world and there would be no hurrah. There may be some drug issues in Russia and probably other coutnries too but let's wait before we jump the gun and say it is "rampant" or a real issue in skating.
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Since you both are not the only ones in the thread, it would be best if all the rest of us have a clue what is going on or it isn't unlikely that we will think you are speaking to the last person who posted. Opaque call outs are not really appropriate in a group discussion, IMO.
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- Aug 8, 2009
So the German documentary talks about how athletes who are caught doping are discarded by the regime and are simply replaced by new bodies whose records are clean, and then they are provided with drugs.
So I'm just wondering, what happened to Oksana Nagalati? Is she still being trained as an athlete to represent Russia? Or has she disappeared?
Cause if it were an honest medical mistake, then there would be no reason for Oksana to not continue to be trained, right?
P.S. And the German documentary also says that 99% of Russian athletes who make it to the top are doped, which is, I think, basically like saying all Russian athletes who make it to the top are doped.
Of course, the documentary does not explicitly state that '99% of Russian athletes' includes Russian figure skaters who represent the nation at international sporting events such as Worlds and Olympics Games. And it would be great if this space would allow that question to be raised, i.e., does '99% of Russian athletes' include figure skaters?, but I suppose to even raise this as a point of discussion would be to jump the gun on this forum.
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- Aug 8, 2009
Sorry. I didn't know you had posted when I made the 'YOU are part of the problem' comment. Anyway, I couldn't quote anything because there was no post to quote, so to speak, which is the problem.
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- Mar 26, 2014
I cannot agree with that based on the following info:
The Washington Post, citing unidentified sources with knowledge of drug results from the USA Track and Field Championships in Indianapolis, IN, reported that on June 23, 2006, an "A" sample of Marion Jones' urine tested positive for Erythropoietin (EPO), a banned performance enhancer. Jones withdrew from the Weltklasse Golden League meet in Switzerland, citing "personal reasons", and once more denied using performance-enhancing drugs. She retained lawyer Howard Jacobs, who has represented many athletes in doping cases, including Tim Montgomery and cyclist Floyd Landis. On September 6, 2006, Jones' lawyers announced that her "B" sample had tested negative, which cleared her from the doping allegations. On October 5, 2007, Jones admitted to lying to federal agents under oath about her use of steroids prior to the 2000 Summer Olympics.
I guess she just cracked under the pressure without being actually caught. Others keep denying. I just hope that Bolt is clean: he is such a phenomenon.
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- Jun 21, 2003
No really. That's considered speculation which creates rumors and gossip. Unless there is factual based info on a specific skater that is made public, it's actually considered defamation/slander. The article is vague so it would be in bad taste to assume which sport or athletes are part of the supposed 99%
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- Aug 8, 2009
No really. That's considered speculation which creates rumors and gossip. Unless there is factual based info on a specific skater that is made public, it's actually considered defamation/slander. The article is vague so it would be in bad taste to assume which sport or athletes are part of the supposed 99%
So why is it okay to speculate that Usain Bolt may be doping, and not okay to speculate that Russian figure skaters may be doping?
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- Nov 19, 2010
No really. That's considered speculation which creates rumors and gossip. Unless there is factual based info on a specific skater that is made public, it's actually considered defamation/slander. The article is vague so it would be in bad taste to assume which sport or athletes are part of the supposed 99%
Well, if the dirty rate is 99%, the speculation should be on who could be clean.
99% is 100% with a smidgen of wiggle room for the alleging person. Wholesale slander IMO.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I am merely saying that athletes (as a whole) should not be named as unless it is fact-based.
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