Sasha Cohen - Premature Crowning?

[SkateFan4Life]

I don't think she'll have a performance quite like that, although I can "guarantee" two things:

1) She'll make the world team and
2) She WON'T win.

What'll have to happen for the U.S. to "lose" a spot on the World team?

I also expect Sasha Cohen to make the US World Team, but not as National Champion. In order for her to fail to make the World Team, she will have to deliver a performance as poor as Marshalls, and at least three other of the US women will have to skate significantly better than her.

 

[Fossi]

You're right. Sasha did burst onto the scene with confidence in 2000, almost too much confidence. Someone should've reminded her that it was a 5/4 split in the LP between Sasha and Sarah, and Sarah should've been 2nd.

 

[mzheng]

Just heard from MS that Sasha is back to Cal and has been officially trainning under John Nick, her old coach.

 

[R.D.]

Just heard from MS that Sasha is back to Cal and has been officially trainning under John Nick, her old coach.

Forgive me, but what/who's MS?

 

[mzheng]

Forgive me, but what/who's MS?

My Source. Sorry, or I should put it as MSS would be less confusing?

 

[R.D.]

My Source. Sorry, or I should put it as MSS would be less confusing?

I wasn't sure whether "MS" was supposed to be an initial or the name of something, etc. I guess you could just put "my source" or "my secret source" if you wish.

If this rumour is true though, it's certainly an interesting choice she has made. Maybe she wants confirmation on her jumps? I mean, if you ignore the falls and stumbles her Marshall's performance really wasn't all that bad (although IMO I think otherwise her program is very empty and boring. I like hers the least of everyone's this year).

 

[lavender]

Yes, I agree. Sasha is easy on the eyes; she's very pretty, but Michelle is only so-so, and because she's Asian too.

OMG what kind of comment is 'because she's Asian too'

 

[mzheng]

I mean, if you ignore the falls and stumbles her Marshall's performance really wasn't all that bad.

I agree compared with the rest of the field there. Actually I found there are quite a few places I liked it.

 

[nymkfan51]

I agree about Sasha ... in fact, most of her programs are lovely. Unfortunately though, she is going to have to figure out a way to stay on her feet. It's really frustrating ... she can do the jumps, she has shown that. I really don't know anymore if it's a mental thing or something with her technique. I don't have enough technical knowledge of skating to make that determination. Maybe some of the skaters amongst us have an opinion on that?

 

[chuckm]

Last year at Nationals, Sasha got a 6.0, a 5.9 and a string of 5.8s in presentation plus a string of technical 5.7s and 5.8s, despite making TWO mistakes in her FS (a fall and a near-fall). My feeling was the judges gave Sasha those inflated marks because they were highly inclined to award the championship to Sasha, who'd had a landmark GP season. Moreover, based on Kwan's stumble in the SP, they expected Kwan, yet to skate, to perform a less-than-perfect FS.

Of course, Kwan delivered a clean, intense and vibrant FS, forcing the judges to give her a string of presentation 6.0s plus a bunch of technical 5.9s.

Somehow I don't think the judges will be quite that generous to either skater this year.

 

[attyfan]

chuckm -- given that this is the last year that the 6.0 system will be used at U.S. Nationals, why do you think that the judges won't be generous? IIRC, at Dortmund (last appearance of 6.0 at Worlds), there were an awful lot of 6.0s given.

 

[Mathman]

OMG what kind of comment is 'because she's Asian too'

Lavender, Shanila was responding to speculation by Soogar that Michelle did not get as many high fashion endorsement opportunities as she ought to, because the American advertising ideal leans toward white models.

Or, as Chris Rock puts it, "Put a blond wig on a rat's behind and you've got the next teen model sensation."

Shanila was not expressing anti-Asian feelings in her post.

Mathman

 

[chuckm]

chuckm -- given that this is the last year that the 6.0 system will be used at U.S. Nationals, why do you think that the judges won't be generous? IIRC, at Dortmund (last appearance of 6.0 at Worlds), there were an awful lot of 6.0s given.

I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that the judges will not be rushing to crown either Kwan or Cohen. After the SP last year, Cohen was in perfect position to unseat Kwan as US champion, and the judges were ready to give her the nod. Given her poor performances this season, they aren't going to be so eager. So you won't see a Sasha program with errors getting 6.0s, and if Kwan doesn't skate completely cleanly, she won't get a row of 6.0s either.

 

[lavender]

Or, as Chris Rock puts it, "Put a blond wig on a rat's behind and you've got the next teen model sensation."


Mathman

Thanks Mathman.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Last year at Nationals, Sasha got a 6.0, a 5.9 and a string of 5.8s in presentation plus a string of technical 5.7s and 5.8s, despite making TWO mistakes in her FS (a fall and a near-fall). My feeling was the judges gave Sasha those inflated marks because they were highly inclined to award the championship to Sasha, who'd had a landmark GP season. Moreover, based on Kwan's stumble in the SP, they expected Kwan, yet to skate, to perform a less-than-perfect FS.

Of course, Kwan delivered a clean, intense and vibrant FS, forcing the judges to give her a string of presentation 6.0s plus a bunch of technical 5.9s.

Somehow I don't think the judges will be quite that generous to either skater this year.

I agree with your assessment of the judges' mindset at last year's US Nationals.
They were more than ready and prepared to crown Cohen the new US champion, and had she skated a clean program, she probably would have won the title, Michelle Kwan notwithstanding.

This year I suspect the judges won't be quite so ready to crown Sasha the champion before the competition - no "premature crowning"! Sasha can win the title, but in order to do so, she has to skate two strong, clean, vibrant programs - something she has yet to do in major competitions.

Can Sasha win at Nationals next month? I'm not betting the ranch on it. :sheesh:

 

[R.D.]

I agree with your assessment of the judges' mindset at last year's US Nationals.
They were more than ready and prepared to crown Cohen the new US champion, and had she skated a clean program, she probably would have won the title, Michelle Kwan notwithstanding.

This year I suspect the judges won't be quite so ready to crown Sasha the champion before the competition - no "premature crowning"! Sasha can win the title, but in order to do so, she has to skate two strong, clean, vibrant programs - something she has yet to do in major competitions.

Can Sasha win at Nationals next month? I'm not betting the ranch on it. :sheesh:

I somewhat disagree with this. Kwan skated lights out in the last minute of her 2004 Nats FS. IMO, it wouldn't have mattered what Cohen did. Kwan would have or should have won anyway. If Cohen skated the same but landed all her jumps and Kwan skated the way she did, and they gave Cohen the title there would have been an outcry that Kwan "wuz robbed" of her 8th US title. I would have certainly thought so.

I think the question, rather than "Can Sasha win Nationals next month?" would be "Can Kwan NOT win Nationals next month?"

 

[Kuchana]

I agree with your assessment of the judges' mindset at last year's US Nationals.
They were more than ready and prepared to crown Cohen the new US champion, and had she skated a clean program, she probably would have won the title, Michelle Kwan notwithstanding.

This year I suspect the judges won't be quite so ready to crown Sasha the champion before the competition - no "premature crowning"! Sasha can win the title, but in order to do so, she has to skate two strong, clean, vibrant programs - something she has yet to do in major competitions.

I agree about last year and the previous years before that if Michele hadn't wowed the judges but as to say that they're not so willing to crown Sasha this year well...I don't know. It never ceases to amaze me how the judges seem so willing to want to crown Sasha even if she makes mistakes. In fact it's just mindboggling to me. But who knows? It may be different this time around since she hasn't competed much this season and poorly at that. I guess you could say I'm just rather cynical of the judging process, the U.S. no less when it comes to giving marks that are undeserved with mistakes to boot.

I think the question, rather than "Can Sasha win Nationals next month?" would be "Can Kwan NOT win Nationals next month?"

Not unless she has another '97 Nationals repeat. As much as the truth may hurt, Michelle has proven time and time again she can meet the challenge. I have yet to see that from Sasha thus far.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Not unless she has another '97 Nationals repeat. As much as the truth may hurt, Michelle has proven time and time again she can meet the challenge. I have yet to see that from Sasha thus far.

Michelle would probably have to fall at least three times to be denied the National title, assuming that she came into the long program at least in third place, which I'm assuming will be the case. IMHO, Kwan will continue to win the National title until she retires - she owns the title, plain and simple. In order for her to be defeated, one of the following scenarios must occur:

Kwan falls three times in the long program.
Another skater (Cohen most likely) skates the long program of her life, nails seven triples and blows the roof off the arena.
All of the top women fall at least once in the long program, and the judges mark Kwan's performance as "the least worst" of the bunch.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Fossi]

I'll disagree. Since Sasha came on the senior scene in '00 the judges have been itching to crown her National champion. She just blows it big time in the LP. If Sasha skates a clean LP, or if she falls once and Kwan falls once, they'll give it to Cohen. They've been waiting a LONG time for Cohen to get it right.

 

[R.D.]

Michelle would probably have to fall at least three times to be denied the National title, assuming that she came into the long program at least in third place, which I'm assuming will be the case. IMHO, Kwan will continue to win the National title until she retires - she owns the title, plain and simple. In order for her to be defeated, one of the following scenarios must occur:

Kwan falls three times in the long program.
Another skater (Cohen most likely) skates the long program of her life, nails seven triples and blows the roof off the arena.
All of the top women fall at least once in the long program, and the judges mark Kwan's performance as "the least worst" of the bunch.

IMHO, of course.

Right on.

I don't know what all this is about "wanting to give Cohen the title". Sure, they hold her up over some of the other skaters (she shouldn't be IMO) but I don't think they would give her the title over Kwan if she isn't perfect.