Sasha Cohen update

[Buttercup]

I think Mao is determined to become a complete skater. It seems like she cares more about mastering her weaknesses than in squeezing points out of the system. If so, good on 'er!

I'm all for skaters working to master all the elements, but so long as something is a work in progress, I think it's best to leave it for practice.

 

[MKFSfan]

I think Mao is determined to become a complete skater. It seems like she cares more about mastering her weaknesses than in squeezing points out of the system. If so, good on 'er!

That has been my feeling as well. She always seems to be focusing on the next thing to improve, and often times I wonder if that is her downfall. (ex-not mastering including merely ONE 3ax, must have two...) My feeling is we'll see her masterpiece at the Olympics next year!

 

[Kwanford Wife]

As Spun and Dee already know, I am far from a Cohen fan. And while I am a proud member of the Uber Kwan Fan army (who worships at our leader Heather's feet and sacrifice chickens and junior mints aplenty...) I would like to point out to all those who are so confident that the previous generation doesn't stand a chance against the Mao, Yuna, Miki, Caro, Rochette crowd that based on last year's worlds, current US & international national contests and 4CCs -none of these ladies has really shown up as consistent, clean, dominating skaters.

From a complete set of triples to the ability to wonky technique, each one has a major flaw and I can't think of anybody who has put out two stellar skates in the same competition this year.

I'd put my money on just about anyone through the next Olympics.

Let's not confuse facts with fandom.

 

[mycelticblessing]

Well, about these highest PCs... if Cohen comes back she will skate to Очи чёрные? (it's "Dark eyes", don't worry ) is it the best choice she can make? I don't know if it's a good thing to skate to the same piece of music at two Olys. It's a kind of... you know, bad. (ok, I'm not a champion in writing my ideas)

Kwan skated to the same music in 1998 and 2002. But I think I know what you mean. When everyone else has had 3 different short programs in between that same period, Cohen would still only have Otchi Tchernye. But we'll see. Maybe she will tailor a piece she used in her shows so that it fits the SP requirements.

 

[Dee4707]

2003 Worlds Qualifying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkHvAcve2Y

Thanks for posting that skate, how beautiful!!! Too bad the people who make their snide comments have no idea of what they are talking about. The sad part is they do it time and time and time and time again. How very sad.

 

[Particle Man]

Oh my god! Everyone in this thread who thinks Sasha could possibly come back must be a "Sasha Bot"! That's what I was called, after all!! [/biting cynicism]

Cynicism aside -- As a loyal fan of Sasha, I will say that this is not at all the ideal situation. I said before that she REALLY needed to compete in the 08/09 season to be in top form for whatever she plans to do in 09/10. If she had done that, and put in the work, then theoretically the sky would have been the limit. I'm disappointed with how things are working out, because even if she does come back, I just don't see how she can really do her best. I mean, I could list the obstacles for her:

- No experience competing in current CoP climate, this is a problem because:
- Edge mistakes and other mistakes, which may hit her more than she had realized, can't be corrected overnight
- Echo the above but apply it to the construction of her programs - she'll have to tweak after every competition (then again our other skaters are doing that)
- Over-training could likely cause injury
- She may face prejudice from US judges who might not like the fact that she, their biggest headliner disappeared for 3 years, losing their sport lots of revenue, then showed up at the last minute to try to take "someone else's Olympic/Worlds spot"
- Being untested may cause her to get nervous, which is her worst nemesis IMO
- When she had her eyes on gold, she usually ended up just short. If she has her eye on "just squeaking by" she'll probably end up short and ... not squeak by

Gee I'm such a "Sasha bot" aren't I? All of this critical, hard-line analysis. You can tell my head is just in the clouds! ...

Anyway, I hope she defies the odds and comes back strong. Also, even with the disadvantages I listed, Sasha would be contending as well as any of our other ladies. Look at '09 Nationals. She certainly has a strong chance of making the Olympic/Worlds team anyway.

 

[camion]

I'm with Pikachuusb in that I would love to see any new program from the veteran skaters. I dunno how Sasha would pan out in the new system. Her inconsistency in competitions have been her vice in the sport, but her skating quality is by far still one of the most beautiful.

 

[tarotx]

Particle Man you're an Alissabot now

 

[AdamFan]

On the contrary, spending this season to get back up to snuff slowly and gradually (and she really started last summer)---Sasha may be avoiding serious injury. She was battered from 2004-2006. Sasha might just be making a smart decision to save her body until she needs to push. Physically, she is in great shape, strong. She hasn't been loafing around off the ice. Gordeeva and Grinkov got back into form rather easily and Boitano was looking good (he had a nagging knee injury that hampered him all year---injured the spring before).

By not competing this season, Sasha can watch the competition, work with the guys on her jumps, see what is scoring well, avoid injury and time the comeback perfectly. She didn't train long programs on tour during the summer for COI. She is skating more now than she ever would during a spring/summer COI tour (on the ice 6-7 times).

Mentally, the pressure will be off of her because there won't be any expectations.

The USFSA can't blame Sasha for falling ratings. They have had Johnny and Evan, Tanith and Ben, etc and could've created pro-am events to entice Sasha to perform at if they were concerned with ratings. She stuck around for two Olympic cycles---she wasn't a flash in the pan like Lipinski and/or to some extent Hughes. Sasha also stuck around skating and her recognizability and star power could be responsible for some of the popularity that the sport still has. Cohen is one of the last truly 'famous' skaters. Weir is when he is mentioned on PerezHilton, but the general public has a way of forgetting who the stars are when they haven't seen them for a while.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Or she could skate a kick-***-out-of-this-universe SP that would allow her to have enough points to keep a lead. It has been done by some skaters these past years.

You CAN"T have a better SP than she had at the olympics in 2006 and she found herself in the lead by only a few hundredths of a point, even though Slutskya nor Arakawa landed 3/3 combos or did anything special in their SPs.

 

[tarotx]

2006 olympic short Sasha skidded the 2a and got a little bit of negative goe. She can or could hit real beauties worthy of postive goe. Sasha also got negative goe on her combo even though not across the board like she would now if she did the lutz. She also had a level 3 on her sit spin that I'm pretty sure got a level 4 at worlds.

 

[Eurofan]

Thanks for posting that skate, how beautiful!!! Too bad the people who make their snide comments have no idea of what they are talking about. The sad part is they do it time and time and time and time again. How very sad.

Even sadder is the fact that Sasha did not skate her LPs in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 like this. All those silver medals would probably have been gold.

 

[Buttercup]

Even sadder is the fact that Sasha did not skate her LPs in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 like this. All those silver medals would probably have been gold.

I'm not sure she could have beaten Slutskaya in 2005 regardless of how well she skated. Other than that, possibly. But really, so few skaters manage to get through their LPs with no mistakes and all the planned content that I just don't see the point of focusing on Sasha in this respect.

 

[Particle Man]

Particle Man you're an Alissabot now

LOLOL. Nice. Actually I was down on Alissa for a long time, there was a time when I might have said mean or dismissive things about her, I forget exactly what. I always liked her artistry but kind of gave up on her actually standing up. But now it seems like I'm one of the few defending her and giving her at least a chance to prove that she has really improved this season. All comes down to Worlds really. It's great that she won Nebelhorn and did so well at Nationals, 4CC doesn't really matter either way, now it's crunch time. Either she can step up and deliver, or not. Pressure much?

 

[antmanb]

That call definitely cost her the title. I'm not sure it was dubious per se, just seemed a bit unfair as it's rarely applied. You're right that she gets good marks even when making mistakes - the question is, should her successful elements be marked lower? Caro is an interesting case study in this regard because she does some things very well but those endless setup times for the jumps... I don't know. I still like her . I don't think she's gifted in the PCS. I see it as a misconception due to PCS being equated with artistry, but that's not what they are.

I would disagree - she skates fast and that seems to give her high marks across the board in the PCS. I find her lacking in choreography and interpretation. I have to say though I haven't been a big fan of her programs for a few seasons and think there should be a lot of marks lost in choreo and interp because she's constantly breaking in both to set up elements and to do cross overs.

I also think her skating skills shouldn't necessarily be so high because of the speed, because i think skaters should have both speed and control. This season especially i find her to have reverted to old habbits where she would fly around the rink at top speed flailing slightly because of the speed. Maybe it's her programs but this season i see her looking out of control and little too loose.

Wouldn't it be really cool if that skater ends up being someone you really wouldn't expect? Say, a veteran who's gotten good results over the years, but never won the big events? I like Yu-Na and Carolina but I think it would be really nice to see a skater like Sarah Meier or Fumie winning a medal. :agree:

To be honest the most likely scenario I can see is something along the lines of Mao bombing the SP and lying in 5th or 6th but then coming back with the best free skate of all time. However, i would love it if one of the veterans could pull off two programs of a lifetime and pinch the gold medal with a truly stunning performance - like a Sarah Hughes type moment rather than an Arakawa one.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Well, about these highest PCs... if Cohen comes back she will skate to Очи чёрные? (it's "Dark eyes", don't worry ) is it the best choice she can make? I don't know if it's a good thing to skate to the same piece of music at two Olys. It's a kind of... you know, bad. (ok, I'm not a champion in writing my ideas)

I don't know - Michelle won two Olympic SPs with the same program...of course we know how the LPs went.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

That would be interesting! I always wondered why Mao didn't go that route...

At this point I think Mao should be doing 3F/3T, 3Lp, 2A as her SP jumps. I don't think she's a had a single 3F/3Lp ratified this year in either SP or LP, and seems to be better with the 3T in combination. She has a great triple loop which she could do from consecutive three turns.

Ant

 

[Particle Man]

I don't think Sasha is going back to Dark Eyes again. She's been doing what looks like a pared-down competition program to Moonlight Sonata in Stars on Ice this season. I (and others) think it will be shortened and increased in difficulty to be her new SP, if she returns.

 

[MKFSfan]

You CAN"T have a better SP than she had at the olympics in 2006 and she found herself in the lead by only a few hundredths of a point, even though Slutskya nor Arakawa landed 3/3 combos or did anything special in their SPs.

Sasha had negative GOE's on two jumps (combo and axle), 2 level 3's (FW and FSS), 3 level 4's..

Irina landed a 3lz/2t, and had all level 4's except 1 level 3 on FW. No negative GOE's on anything.

Shiz landed a 3lz/2t, and had all level 4's except 1 level 3 on FW. Negative GOE on 3 flip.

Content was about the same for all 3 skaters. Sasha a bit ahead of both in PCS, and then a bit behind both in TES. Still, they had roughly the same content, landed/completed everything pretty much similar so scores reflected that. I def think that was by far Sasha's best performance, so agree with you there, not much more she could've done better, aside a level 4 FSSpin. I doubt a 3/3 was in the cards then (or next year!)

edited to add...I read your post wrog-I thought you wrote "...even though Slutskya AND Arakawa landed 3/3..."

 

[Hikaru]

You CAN"T have a better SP than she had at the olympics in 2006 and she found herself in the lead by only a few hundredths of a point, even though Slutskya nor Arakawa landed 3/3 combos or did anything special in their SPs.

Excuse me, I love Sasha and all, but I wouldn't call her Oly SP her best short programme she has done; there were very minor things going on there, so I actually think she can do better than that. She has always done great in the short program, so I don't think it is a strech to think that she could put everything into it to, theoretically, accumulate enough points to keep a great lead from other skaters. That is if the Michael Weiss' reports of her doing 3-3 are true... she cold put one in the short; I think that is the area were she would need to work, on the short program