Scott Moir says its a piss off

[skateluvr]

What line did he cross? 15 pages about Scott saying what so many disappointed, hardworking second place skaters have said. People are not robots with PC answers all the time. He really feels they are a cut above as do ALL OLY GOLD CHAMPIONS. His little statement is nothing compared to over the years-Irina, Plush, Butyrskaya, Bonaly, Kerrigan, Witt, Kulik, even Yamaguchi was testy when MK beat her. Why can't someone say IMHO, I am the best artist (or jumper or spinner, or twizzler. I am amazed there is such condemnation for "bad sportsmanship." He is a man with a big ego. That's new in sport? Much ado about not much.

 

[chuckm]

No ice dance OGMs since Gritchuk / Platov have gone on with their competitive career past their OGM. The biggest risk (other than injury) for those who do continue on is eventually losing to another skater/team. If Scott is so incensed, maybe they should consider whether the risk is really worth their while.

 

[dorispulaski]

I do worry that perhaps V&M are/were being pressured to compete longer than they really wanted to by Skate Canada, as was Yu Na Kim by the Korean federation. They say in public that they are eager to compete, but when something like this comes up, I wonder.

 

[dorispulaski]

Is there a cultural (or generational) issue here? Are there some areas where trash talking is considered fun and adorable? And others where it is considered unsportman-like.

It all reminds me of a record from Scholastic that my mother bought me when I was a little tot. It was the story of Robin Hood, and the actors broke into song occasionally. Prior to the archery contest, the herald sang the rules for sportsmen. I don't remember much of it, but some of it went like this:

A sportsman's always courteous and never whines and cries
And even when he thinks he'll lose he goes ahead and tries
He goes ahead and tries, my lads, he goes ahead and tries
And he never makes excuses like the sun was in my eyes

A sportsman still remains a sport although he has been beat
He will not curse he will not bite nor kick out with his feet
Nor kick out with his feet, my lads, nor kick out with his feet
And he will never never never never never never cheat

This part is so important that I really must repeat
He will never never never never never never cheat.

Clearly, the kids of today do not have this record.

 

[prettykeys]

Actually, you know what, I take back everything I said about Scott Moir. I just read the article/interview again with a fresh mind...and it doesn't sound like he feels that he was entitled to win or that D/W didn't deserve it.

I think he is trying to explain why he is furious and frustrated...that there was an obvious discord between his and Tessa's concept of what is great and what the judges thought. "It's tough to get beat artistically when you think you are the best artistically." That's just the truth. It's tough to be outsmarted when you think you're the smartest; it's tough for someone else to be judged prettier when you think you're the prettiest. I don't think it's necessarily arrogance. It's tough when you laid out a plan, committed to it, and practiced according to it, and even then it was deemed lacking. It sort of makes your efforts feel like they were a little wasted and now it's back to the drawing board. Yeah, I actually do understand that.

My bad, Scott.

 

[prettykeys]

I think it highlights another difficulty that revolves around participating in an judged sport: Your judgment of what is a great program or performance may differ from the judges'. So how do you reconcile the two? Most skaters keep trying different things and hoping that the next program is what the judges finally fall for. However, V/M have already had programs that judges liked a lot (or the most) for a while now, so it must be jolting for them to realize this time maybe they don't.

 

[jcoates]

Is there a cultural (or generational) issue here? Are there some areas where trash talking is considered fun and adorable? And others where it is considered unsportman-like...Clearly, the kids of today do not have this record.

Sadly Doris, we moved long past that standard in all sports going back to the 70s when fans, media and even the establishment itself began overlooking and even rewarding boorish behavior. We have Nastase, Connors, McEnroe, the NFL, the NBA, and the current era of "reality competition" programming to thank for that. People now thrive on controversy, manufactured or otherwise, to keep their interest up. Quality competition no longer gives them the sufficient adrenaline rush they need.

 

[dorispulaski]

jcoates, Yes, I was very afraid that my distaste for trash talking was conditioned by the fact that I am definitely an old fogey, a antique survival of a different age.

Posters should consider that many figure skating fans are older, and understand that when some of us are upset at what we perceive as Scott Moir's and Patrick Chan's boorish and unsportmanlike pronouncements in the press, our age is showing.

 

[jcoates]

While it may be partially a generation gap that is contributing to the difference in opinions on this subject, there may be other factors at play. I'm only thirty-five, but I guess that is old enough relative to many young fans with less experience to know that shooting off at the mouth out of raw emotion can come back to bite you. I was raised to be a bit more restrained when competing and to expect that of others. That's not to say athletes should not be fired up or very intense. But that is no excuse for foot in mouth disease. You can express your displeasure quite strongly but more artfully than happened on Sunday. Scott has every right to be peeved at losing and about the circumstances under which the FD was decided. But he is not a 15 year old boy just learning to harness the testosterone surging through him. He is a 24 year old man (and a major national sports figure and role model in his country) who's been competing at senior level for nearly six years and internationally overall for about a decade. He has given hundreds, if not thousands of interviews. This is not his first time at the dance so to speak. The manner in which his reaction was expressed was a choice, one of which he was keenly aware given that he asked the press corps if they wanted to hear anything else controversial. He knew what he was saying and knew it would cause a dust up.

Still as I've said previously in this thread, just because he feels that strongly and has expressed his feelings in a particular way, that does not mean he personally holds anything against D/W. I have no doubt he likes them and respects them, but he also thinks he's better. That sounds like a paradox to some people, but it's actually just a fact of life. Part of being competitive is to actually trick your own mind into believing things that may be true, exaggerated, or just plain false. None of that matters so long as you buy the premise you're selling yourself and you use it to fuel your own success. However, if circumstances outside your control (i.e. a judging panel) alter that expected dynamic, then the mind trick evaporates which can be really startling.

 

[KKonas]

jcoates, Yes, I was very afraid that my distaste for trash talking was conditioned by the fact that I am definitely an old fogey, a antique survival of a different age.

Posters should consider that many figure skating fans are older, and understand that when some of us are upset at what we perceive as Scott Moir's and Patrick Chan's boorish and unsportmanlike pronouncements in the press, our age is showing.

And what is the average age of an international judge?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

And what is the average age of an international judge?

Oh, I'd say 100 at least!

 

[Wildstorm]

I love both Virtue and Moir, and Davis and White. Normally I'm a tiny bit more of a Davis/White fan but this season I loved both teams and their programs equally. At the other competitons I thought that both teams' programs were comperable but when the longs were compared one after the other at the final Virtue and Moir DEFINATELY had my vote. It was so much more heartfelt than Davis and White's in my opinion.
When the scores came in I was shocked that Tessa and Scott hadn't beaten Meryl and Charlie in the free program.

 

[clairecloutier]

I do worry that perhaps V&M are/were being pressured to compete longer than they really wanted to by Skate Canada, as was Yu Na Kim by the Korean federation. They say in public that they are eager to compete, but when something like this comes up, I wonder.

I feel like Scott really wants to continue competing. He is obviously just an extremely competitive person; he hates to lose; so Olympic-level competition is the natural outlet for that. I'm not so sure about Tessa. With the serious injury problems she's had, seems like the thought of retirement must have frequently crossed her mind. And this summer, Shpilband said they were considering whether to stop competing.

As to the Canadian federation's role, I don't know. My sense is that Virtue/Moir, while a great asset to the federation, are still not as important to them as Yu-Na Kim is to the Korean federation. After all, they have Patrick Chan, Weaver/Poje, and competitive pairs teams. So it's not like Skate Canada would fall apart without Virtue/Moir. And I don't think Virtue/Moir feel the weight and necessity of carrying their nation's entire figure skating program the way Yu-Na does.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

The manner in which his reaction was expressed was a choice, one of which he was keenly aware given that he asked the press corps if they wanted to hear anything else controversial. He knew what he was saying and knew it would cause a dust up.

Which is why I'm inclined to believe it's not just about the dance, but behind the scenes stuff we're not privy to.

 

[emma]

I do worry that perhaps V&M are/were being pressured to compete longer than they really wanted to by Skate Canada, as was Yu Na Kim by the Korean federation. They say in public that they are eager to compete, but when something like this comes up, I wonder.

I can only hope they are competing because they feel they have to. I hope they skate competitively because they want to.

I can imagine that Scott and perhaps Tessa (although we don't know as she didn't say this) do feel that they were more well trained than ever at this point in the season; they (Scott, I mean) said earlier this season the goal was to win GPF (and maybe he said worlds too) as they never had before; so I can imagine being really pissed that they didn't meet their first substantial goal AND can imagine saying it. I do think it is too bad that the statement wasn't slanted toward "I'm pissed I didn't make my goal" and more toward pissed that we didn't win (and that too I can understand, its just the part that implies they SHOULD have that gets me a little and does seem to both diss the achievement of D/W and/or question the judging).

I can also imagine being really pissed at judges, too....but I really don't know when and where the right place to air that is. Nor am I sure what the best way to do it is - I think I'm trying to say that I "hear" Doris and others who have a certain understanding of sportsman/peopleship, although perhaps find it easier to dismiss or just chuckle and move on, AND at the same time, I do worry that "sportsmanship" sometimes is a way to contain real and justified dissent or questioning. I"m NOT saying Scott's approach or timing was great, I am just wondering when and how someone would raise questions appropriately about scoring or results that were in the spirit of sportsmanship.

Last thing and not to stir up a hornets nest, but...I rarely watch the medal ceremonies; don't know why, I guess it's just that I'd rather take the 10 minutes or so to rewatch a program or watch one I hadn't seen. anyway, I noticed Tessa talking to scott a lot during the ceremony; not when they were being addressed with medals or flowers, but in between. Is that normal (or polite) behavior? (don't freak - I love this team, but since we are asking about sportsmanship...)

 

[Rachmaninoff]

I feel like Scott really wants to continue competing. He is obviously just an extremely competitive person; he hates to lose; so Olympic-level competition is the natural outlet for that. I'm not so sure about Tessa. With the serious injury problems she's had, seems like the thought of retirement must have frequently crossed her mind. And this summer, Shpilband said they were considering whether to stop competing.

I got the impression that Tessa didn't really want to continue after 2010, but the combination of the improvement in her pain and her enthusiasm for the new free dance has regenerated her interest and drive. That could be some wishful thinking on my part though.

 

[chuckm]

I think the title of this thread is a bit misleading. Virtue and Moir aren't pissed----Scott MOIR is pissed. Nothing in Tessa's facial expression or demeanor after the scores, during the medal ceremony and at the exhibition, showed any anger on her part. All she said was that they would look at the FD to see what could be improved.

OTOH, Moir wasn't pleased when V/M's scores were read (not high enough to offset their 5-point deficit) and was clearly angry when D/W's scores came up. He wore a tight, pasted on smile during the medal ceremony and looked sullen during the exhibition.

 

[Mathman]

* What Prettykeys said in the first sentence of post 226.

 

[blue eyed birds]

Last thing and not to stir up a hornets nest, but...I rarely watch the medal ceremonies; don't know why, I guess it's just that I'd rather take the 10 minutes or so to rewatch a program or watch one I hadn't seen. anyway, I noticed Tessa talking to scott a lot during the ceremony; not when they were being addressed with medals or flowers, but in between. Is that normal (or polite) behavior? (don't freak - I love this team, but since we are asking about sportsmanship...)

For them, yes. They talked through even the Olympics medal ceremony.

Wading into the topic, I get the sense that -- propriety of the actual comments aside (and I do think making those comments publicly was a tremendous, albeit rash, image mistake) -- V/M have a particular attachment to this FD that might be heightening sensitivity to its reception. The fact of the matter is that it actually scored extraordinarily well, providing them with a new personal best, and the PCS was a fraction off of D/W's with two more head-to-head match-ups still to come. It's scarcely been dumped, and with a few tweaks they could conceivably outscore D/W. But if they are as attached to this program and conception as they've seemed to be from all the interviews and quotes to date, it might be difficult at first to detach from it sufficiently to assess why it may not be appreciated quite as much as one other program out there. As it is, it really hasn't been adjusted since Finlandia, unlike the SD, which has seen several revisions already. They, and Scott in particular, may just need to review with a little critical distance. They may also need Tessa to handle further discussion of it.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for joining us, blue eyed birds. Welcome to he forum.