- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Thanks for joining us, blue eyed birds. Welcome to he forum.
Yay! Something else that's "blue" on the forum =) Welcome!
Scott Moir says its a piss off
- Thread starter skateflower
- Start date
Yay! Something else that's "blue" on the forum =) Welcome!
To piggyback on blue eyed bird's post (welcome btw) there may also be a degree of irritation at least on Scott's part that his program which was crafted earlier and has had more time to develop is now being judged at the GPF as being slightly less appealing aesthetically than a routine which was a second attempt and was only put together a month before the season began. He may not believe it's possible for that to be true or he may think it's just dumb luck that it happened.
Federer lost to Djokovic in the semis at the US Open for the second straight year after being up two match points both times. In his press conference after this year's match he complained about the stunning forehand service return winner Novak hit to hold off the first match point. He basically claimed it was a lucky shot and a concession by Novak that he had nothing to lose. He basically sneered at it as an unserious shot unworthy of a top pro and more appropriate for a brash, undisciplined junior player. (He subsequently screwed up the second match point all on his own.) It was admittedly not the standard high percentage option to hit a screaming winner, but it was also well within Novak's powers and the serve itself was not nearly as good as Roger wanted to believe. Roger is just a purist, much like Scott, and holds everyone to the same tactical and aesthetic standards by which he judges himself. By contrast, Djokovic (and also Nadal) are less elegant than he is and so when they beat him, the loss stings that much more. Roger was roundly criticized in the press and by current and former players alike, but was quickly overshadowed by Serena's now nearly annual effort at humiliating herself and tarnishing the sport and her legacy.
I honestly don't think Scott meant to be hurtful to D/W, but he is and has been dismissive of them in the past. It's just part of their dynamic. He is a proud man and is not used to being the underdog. I think he will be fine in the end and if they choose to continue competing (which I expect), I'm sure he will be fantastic.
Federer lost to Djokovic in the semis at the US Open for the second straight year after being up two match points both times. In his press conference after this year's match he complained about the stunning forehand service return winner Novak hit to hold off the first match point. He basically claimed it was a lucky shot and a concession by Novak that he had nothing to lose. He basically sneered at it as an unserious shot unworthy of a top pro and more appropriate for a brash, undisciplined junior player. (He subsequently screwed up the second match point all on his own.) It was admittedly not the standard high percentage option to hit a screaming winner, but it was also well within Novak's powers and the serve itself was not nearly as good as Roger wanted to believe. Roger is just a purist, much like Scott, and holds everyone to the same tactical and aesthetic standards by which he judges himself. By contrast, Djokovic (and also Nadal) are less elegant than he is and so when they beat him, the loss stings that much more. Roger was roundly criticized in the press and by current and former players alike, but was quickly overshadowed by Serena's now nearly annual effort at humiliating herself and tarnishing the sport and her legacy.
I honestly don't think Scott meant to be hurtful to D/W, but he is and has been dismissive of them in the past. It's just part of their dynamic. He is a proud man and is not used to being the underdog. I think he will be fine in the end and if they choose to continue competing (which I expect), I'm sure he will be fantastic.
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Welcome to Golden Skate, blue eyed birds! post long & often.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
On s slightly different note, Virtue and Moir's long dance this year actually isn't so great, right? Whereas Davis and White's waltz is their best ever.
Virtue and Moir's best ever was the Mahler as performed at the Olympics. Better IMHO than Torville and Dean's celebrated Bolero. I don't think Tessa and Scott will ever be able to match that level of perfection again.
JMO.
Virtue and Moir's best ever was the Mahler as performed at the Olympics. Better IMHO than Torville and Dean's celebrated Bolero. I don't think Tessa and Scott will ever be able to match that level of perfection again.
JMO.
I agree. That Mahler program was absolutely magical. Hence it supports the argument that they ought to have retired after the 2009-2010 season.
But clearly, V/M believe there is still room to grow they believe Funny Face is the program that will help them do that. I guess it's similar to the Tango FD from D/W last year. But I guess the question up for discussion is how is that Funny Face FD going to help them grow?
From my point of view, Funny Face forces them to express a different kind of emotion. I think they sense that their best success has been by doing romantic pieces with soft choreography. Perhaps they want to show that they can do coy and flirty too. I know there was some discussion in the 2009-2010 GPF OD thread from fans that felt that V/M was so serious in their dances. Perhaps Funny Face is their attempt to be fun while maintaining their great qualities.
Any other thoughts?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I agree with this, except the part about not being able to match that perfection again. Sure they can. They just have to choose another sublime, intense piece of music... like one of Strauss's Four Last Songs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBhbYCxYf6c ... or the Franck violin sonata. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K4yhePD9Iw&feature=related
^ True, but if they do that same theme season after season, it will lose impact regardless of the quality. Also, current rules don't reward a program like Mahler or one set to these pieces of music. They were actually changed in part because Mahler and Phantom were more symphonic pieces and less appropriate for the dance floor. Lift rules were also changed to limit acrobatics and possibly inappropriate positions to a degree. They would need to have something with more discernible beat and also be of an "upbeat" nature. Of course rules may change. I actually think they could have pulled off a medley of Sinatra, Tony Bennett or Dean Martin classics brilliantly. Scott has a definite Rat Pack feel to his personality. And Tessa plays so well off of him that it could be magic.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2011
Thanks for the kind welcomes! I've lurked a bit and enjoyed following the technical discussions here.
I think the character/expression element can be part of it; certainly the only other similar piece, really, was the '08-'09 OD which, of course, received little mileage. The first two sections of this FD also open them up to different styles of dance, with the more theatrical/Broadway/tap movement intercutting with the jazz/modern. They've certainly exercised the lyrical/balletic style and succeeded with it; they've done Latin, some ballroom over the years between the tangos and the ballroom-based ODs, and the folk pieces. "Funny Face" is really, in what it demands, a departure from their previous work (as "Great Gig" was and remains). How they may intend to learn from it in the future is a bigger question, as I don't see them repeating the style next year, but it could also be as simple as wishing to show greater versatility, both to the public and judges and for their own sake.
I think the character/expression element can be part of it; certainly the only other similar piece, really, was the '08-'09 OD which, of course, received little mileage. The first two sections of this FD also open them up to different styles of dance, with the more theatrical/Broadway/tap movement intercutting with the jazz/modern. They've certainly exercised the lyrical/balletic style and succeeded with it; they've done Latin, some ballroom over the years between the tangos and the ballroom-based ODs, and the folk pieces. "Funny Face" is really, in what it demands, a departure from their previous work (as "Great Gig" was and remains). How they may intend to learn from it in the future is a bigger question, as I don't see them repeating the style next year, but it could also be as simple as wishing to show greater versatility, both to the public and judges and for their own sake.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
The Franck actually has various tempi and a wholly different feeling from the Mahler. However, then, how about Ravel (La Valse and/or Valses Nobles et Sentimentales)? Cf. what Balanchine did with those - a young girl dancing with Death. Very striking and not just MOTS (more of the same). http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2002857162_valse12.html
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
This is how we know both teams are headed for greatness, if not already there.
They have reached that pinnacle of the sport, shared by Katarina Witt and Elaine Zayak and Evan Lysacek and Evgeni Plushenko and Jeff Buttle of having had rules changes made so that people like them will not win again.
The cream of the jest is, and the test of their greatness, both are still miles ahead of the pack, even with rules meant to pull them back in.
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- Joined
- Dec 3, 2011
Very interesting points! I have nothing so interesting to add, but I imagine they feel at least somewhat obligated, if not personally motivated to compete at worlds in 2013 since it's in their hometown.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Oh, that moment was so awesome.
Welcome, derplutz. Post often!
Thanks. I'm pretty certain most people here won't agree with my views (see: my few posts in the chan comment thread), but I feel as a current competitive skater I feel like I have some solid perspective.
The woman is delusional and utterly self-absorbed. (Can you tell I'm not a fan?) She was also flat wrong on the facts of the ruling during the match. The USTA and the women's tour totally caved again in issuing that pittance of a fine because they need her as a draw. It's the Friends Effect transferred to tennis. Just as NBC put all its effort into keeping that sappy show on air as long as possible while also selling its soul to clone it unsuccessfully, the WTA and especially the USTA have relied unceasingly on Venus and Serena to draw crowds, even when the almost expectedly withdraw from event at the last minute. They are now both over 30 and on the decline but no one of note is waiting in the wings to carry the torch.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Over at FSU, there's an article (original; translation) in which Scott's ego is stroked some more.
rAnd also, a couple pictures from the GPF banquet: one, two
rAnd also, a couple pictures from the GPF banquet: one, two
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Awesome pictures of the Canton men. By the comments on this forum, you'd think they aren't getting along. And then we see these great pictures.
And the article link was a good read. And I almost entirely agree with Zhulin. And as one of the greats of ice dance, he should know.
And the article link was a good read. And I almost entirely agree with Zhulin. And as one of the greats of ice dance, he should know.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Well, he says both teams deserve their marks...he likes V&M better, and he believes that ice dance should always be about the relationship between a man and a woman.
However, ice dance can also be defined as the relationship between 2 people and the music, I think. If we were to rule out of ice dance programs that were not about the relationship between a man and a woman, we would lose Torvill & Dean's Barnum, and the Duchesnays Missing, Savage Rites, and Reflections programs, for example. I'd rather have a broader definition, to allow a wider variety of programs, but he clearly does not agree with me.
And for him to get his wish, and have this reflected in the scores, the rules would need significant revision.
Of course, no where in the TES rules is it enshrined that free dances must only be about sex on ice. And in the PCS rules, it should only affect (possibly) 2 components:
In I&T, there is one bullet of several that might deal with this, and even then it would seem to only have an effect if the music is calling for a relationship and there isn't one (W&P's FD without a relationship wouldn't work, for example). D&W's tango last year would not deserve 10's, IMO, for this component. In a tango, there should be a relationship. Some judges did give them a 10 for this one, and I wouldn't, I think. However a grand ball waltz and polka does not require more of a relationship than they bring to it this year, and I don't think I'd dock them half a point for that item this year. The program is getting standing ovations, and it works.
To qualify for a mark of between 9.00 and 10.00 in Interpretation and Timing, you should
And in Performance & Execution
To qualify for a mark between 9.00 and 10.00 in Performance and Execution, you need
However, ice dance can also be defined as the relationship between 2 people and the music, I think. If we were to rule out of ice dance programs that were not about the relationship between a man and a woman, we would lose Torvill & Dean's Barnum, and the Duchesnays Missing, Savage Rites, and Reflections programs, for example. I'd rather have a broader definition, to allow a wider variety of programs, but he clearly does not agree with me.
And for him to get his wish, and have this reflected in the scores, the rules would need significant revision.
Of course, no where in the TES rules is it enshrined that free dances must only be about sex on ice. And in the PCS rules, it should only affect (possibly) 2 components:
In I&T, there is one bullet of several that might deal with this, and even then it would seem to only have an effect if the music is calling for a relationship and there isn't one (W&P's FD without a relationship wouldn't work, for example). D&W's tango last year would not deserve 10's, IMO, for this component. In a tango, there should be a relationship. Some judges did give them a 10 for this one, and I wouldn't, I think. However a grand ball waltz and polka does not require more of a relationship than they bring to it this year, and I don't think I'd dock them half a point for that item this year. The program is getting standing ovations, and it works.
To qualify for a mark of between 9.00 and 10.00 in Interpretation and Timing, you should
And in Performance & Execution
To qualify for a mark between 9.00 and 10.00 in Performance and Execution, you need
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