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I hope Agnes doesn't turn into Mirai as in not being able to hold a lead or do a clean LP. She has a reputation of being a SP skater. Hopefully this experience will toughen her up for next season. I really am getting tired of US Ladies skating scared when it's all on the line. Only Ashley seems to got for it at times.
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I'm happy for Ashley but those programs could be so much more (especially the SP). Her spiral sequence is the best of the year, so kudos there in the LP, but more daring movements like that are needed. She really could be World Champion this year if she had the correct vehicles.
Surprisingly, Rachael Flatt was the 2nd best in the Long Program for me. She got her jump consistency back for the most part and, although a couple of her spins were truly awful and the first half of the program unremarkable, the emotion she brought to the performance towards the end was wonderful. A nice way for her to end her career, although a sad statement about American ladies' figure skating when this is the 2nd best of the night (6th overall was the correct placement for her).
Alissa - this is by far her worst long program ever and she gave a lackluster performance of it here. Still, I'd have her 3rd on the night because her basic skating is better than most of this field and her spins are obviously THE best.
Caroline Zhang - a nice comeback, and I think she should have been 3rd overall here, but she actually hasn't improved all that much in terms of technique. She just manged to be more consistent at this competition. She is still much too slow and isn't able to do short setups into any jumps, her Lutz is still problematic, and her Double Axel is still too small. In terms of performance there was more depth and maturity, though, so that was nice.
Agnes Zawadski - I seriously dislike like the way she moves and presents herself. It's good that she has decent speed and big jumps because otherwise she would be unbearable. Her long program was such a mess, but I'd have her 4th overall because of the technically strong SP.
Christina Gao - 5th place, AGAIN! Hopefully she is done growing and can put everything together next year. There is a LOT of talent here. She needs to be comfortable with herself and allow herself to be expressive and commanding. Needs to work on that Axel technique as well.
Surprisingly, Rachael Flatt was the 2nd best in the Long Program for me. She got her jump consistency back for the most part and, although a couple of her spins were truly awful and the first half of the program unremarkable, the emotion she brought to the performance towards the end was wonderful. A nice way for her to end her career, although a sad statement about American ladies' figure skating when this is the 2nd best of the night (6th overall was the correct placement for her).
Alissa - this is by far her worst long program ever and she gave a lackluster performance of it here. Still, I'd have her 3rd on the night because her basic skating is better than most of this field and her spins are obviously THE best.
Caroline Zhang - a nice comeback, and I think she should have been 3rd overall here, but she actually hasn't improved all that much in terms of technique. She just manged to be more consistent at this competition. She is still much too slow and isn't able to do short setups into any jumps, her Lutz is still problematic, and her Double Axel is still too small. In terms of performance there was more depth and maturity, though, so that was nice.
Agnes Zawadski - I seriously dislike like the way she moves and presents herself. It's good that she has decent speed and big jumps because otherwise she would be unbearable. Her long program was such a mess, but I'd have her 4th overall because of the technically strong SP.
Christina Gao - 5th place, AGAIN! Hopefully she is done growing and can put everything together next year. There is a LOT of talent here. She needs to be comfortable with herself and allow herself to be expressive and commanding. Needs to work on that Axel technique as well.
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- Nov 12, 2011
well, there were a few memorable skates last night...to me, it was caroline, rachael, and ashley.
ashley- she has a new confidence and command of the ice that she didn't have before. no one did a perfect program that night, but ashley's stood out. i really do like her program this year, i think it's the best black swan i've seen (although cesario's is nice too). i'm happy she was finally able to take gold for once. i think she and alissa will gain the three spots back, they are our best bet.
alissa- i watched the press conference, and i could tell she was very upset with herself. in the article on IN, jason dungjen said although the injury is healed for the mostpart, she had doubts because of it and i think that's why she didn't do her best. you have to remember, she hasn't even been with him and yuka for 2 years, it is still a work in progress. i have a ton of respect for her. the old her would have fallen apart after the first mistake, and she kept fighting through. i don't think it's as much as a mental issue now as it is just getting the jumps consistent. i'm still very happy she made the world team.
agnes- well, i think she had a mirai moment. she was awesome in the short, but her long was disappointing. i could tell she was also very upset in the press conference. this is still only her 2nd year as a senior, and what she has done the past 2 years is very respectable. she still has a few years ahead of her, i'm not worried.
caroline- i am SO proud of her. she is a totally different skater, kind of like how ashley is too. caroline skated absolutely beautifully and deserved getting a medal, she worked her butt off the past two years. i am so glad that she put in such hard work to better her skating. she still does have a lot of room to improve, but this was a huge step in the right direction.
christina- 5th for the 3rd year in a row, kind of has to be a bummer. she also has a lot of room to improve. when she lands her jumps, they are so beautiful and flowing. her flip toe was to die for.
rachael- i am also VERY proud of her too, she deserved that skate last night! so happy for her. i can see where stanford has taken away from her skating (spins, speed) but the second half of her program had so much energy and had me smiling the whole time. i know she probably wasn't excited about her placement but that skate was a huge accomplishment for her this season. i also liked her dress, it's very different. she is going to have to do some reevaluating now though. i think it's going to come down to either skating or school.
mirai- she also has some thinking to do. a lot of it. the emptiness of her performances this season carried into nationals. but i don't really feel bad for her...she needs to grow up and realize that if she wants to be successful, she needs to find her love for the sport again and put in the work. i think john nicks would be good for her. i didn't enjoy either of her performances. a 7th place finish is like a slap in the face for her.
ashley- she has a new confidence and command of the ice that she didn't have before. no one did a perfect program that night, but ashley's stood out. i really do like her program this year, i think it's the best black swan i've seen (although cesario's is nice too). i'm happy she was finally able to take gold for once. i think she and alissa will gain the three spots back, they are our best bet.
alissa- i watched the press conference, and i could tell she was very upset with herself. in the article on IN, jason dungjen said although the injury is healed for the mostpart, she had doubts because of it and i think that's why she didn't do her best. you have to remember, she hasn't even been with him and yuka for 2 years, it is still a work in progress. i have a ton of respect for her. the old her would have fallen apart after the first mistake, and she kept fighting through. i don't think it's as much as a mental issue now as it is just getting the jumps consistent. i'm still very happy she made the world team.
agnes- well, i think she had a mirai moment. she was awesome in the short, but her long was disappointing. i could tell she was also very upset in the press conference. this is still only her 2nd year as a senior, and what she has done the past 2 years is very respectable. she still has a few years ahead of her, i'm not worried.
caroline- i am SO proud of her. she is a totally different skater, kind of like how ashley is too. caroline skated absolutely beautifully and deserved getting a medal, she worked her butt off the past two years. i am so glad that she put in such hard work to better her skating. she still does have a lot of room to improve, but this was a huge step in the right direction.
christina- 5th for the 3rd year in a row, kind of has to be a bummer. she also has a lot of room to improve. when she lands her jumps, they are so beautiful and flowing. her flip toe was to die for.
rachael- i am also VERY proud of her too, she deserved that skate last night! so happy for her. i can see where stanford has taken away from her skating (spins, speed) but the second half of her program had so much energy and had me smiling the whole time. i know she probably wasn't excited about her placement but that skate was a huge accomplishment for her this season. i also liked her dress, it's very different. she is going to have to do some reevaluating now though. i think it's going to come down to either skating or school.
mirai- she also has some thinking to do. a lot of it. the emptiness of her performances this season carried into nationals. but i don't really feel bad for her...she needs to grow up and realize that if she wants to be successful, she needs to find her love for the sport again and put in the work. i think john nicks would be good for her. i didn't enjoy either of her performances. a 7th place finish is like a slap in the face for her.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a Flatt retirement announcement before worlds...she can now end her career on a high note.
Nagasu is indeed at a crossroads. Missing worlds not one, but TWO years in a row is really surprising for a skater that showed so much promise two years ago at the Olympics.
Nagasu is indeed at a crossroads. Missing worlds not one, but TWO years in a row is really surprising for a skater that showed so much promise two years ago at the Olympics.
Speak of Rachael, did anyone notice that she was the only one to receive a level 4 step sequence? I was just looking through the protocols and just noticed it.
That's something to be proud of as the judges do not hand level fours very often!
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- Mar 14, 2006
Can someone please post a link to the protocols? They must be right under my nose but I can't find them!
ETA: Never mind, found the judges scores thread. But I crawled all over IN looking for them. They are well hidden.
ETA: Never mind, found the judges scores thread. But I crawled all over IN looking for them. They are well hidden.
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- Jun 27, 2003
I don't think he does his homework all that much. He's great at attending practices, but if he isn't covering the event I don't think he follows the sport. He's busy with speaking engagements and SOI so I'm sure it's difficult to be as obsessive as we fans are.
Wow! What an awesome day for Ashley and her fans. Congratulations to her. Finally. Her win took me a bit by surprised even though I knew it could happen. I like her programs this year so much better than last, although I am not HUGE fan of swan lake for her. She skated it very well but she definitely looked like she was trying to be a swan rather than just being a swan. That type of movement doesn't come naturally to her, although she might think it does. Still, I think Ashley moves fairly pleasantly and I would love to see the perfect vehicle for her one day. During her interview it was more than clear she is aware of what she has to do to be more competitive internationally - a 3-3, the two foot landings, the flutz, etc. It's just easier said than done, as the skaters are all aware of much more than we back seat critics are 
I am glad Alissa pulled off a silver and a spot on the world team even though her skate was disappointing. At least it breaks her curse of soaring one year and completely plummeting the next. She was lucky of course that others made mistakes but that's the game, I suppose. Nothing to do but wish her well for worlds. I always enjoy her skating no matter what.
I just can't believe Mirai did this to herself AGAIN. I didn't watch the ladies short but as soon as I saw her take the ice in the long I had a feeling it wouldn't go well. She looked miserable and I hear her expression was similar in the short. What happened to the Mirai who looked so calm and fierce and happy when she took the ice at 2010 nationals??? I reckon other posters are right and her training just isn't going so well. Who knows how much the distance to Frank's rink affects her training but it certainly can't help. She just looked like she didn't feel ready. My heart goes out to her but in no way am I ever losing my faith in her, as long as she is still in the game.
Speaking of faith - go Caroline!! A good day for her fans who never lost faith in her too.
I missed Rachael's skate but glad to hear she picked herself back up after her short. Considering it was her first year at Standford, she at least showed she can keep it up even if she isn't where she once was. I don't know if she will retire so quickly like some believe. We shall see.
Agnes is not my absolute favorite but I do like her skating and I think she will only improve with time. She is sooo talented. I understand her flaws but no way can anyone dismiss her big jumps and her solid spins. It makes her very competitive. It must have been hard to fall from first because of mistakes but I hope she is happy with her bronze. In a way I would have liked for this to be her first trip to worlds. I don't know how she would have fared against the international field but there has to a first time for everything and Agnes is a skater who I would love to see grow and improve and become a leading American lady. Go Agnes!!
I am glad Alissa pulled off a silver and a spot on the world team even though her skate was disappointing. At least it breaks her curse of soaring one year and completely plummeting the next. She was lucky of course that others made mistakes but that's the game, I suppose. Nothing to do but wish her well for worlds. I always enjoy her skating no matter what.
I just can't believe Mirai did this to herself AGAIN. I didn't watch the ladies short but as soon as I saw her take the ice in the long I had a feeling it wouldn't go well. She looked miserable and I hear her expression was similar in the short. What happened to the Mirai who looked so calm and fierce and happy when she took the ice at 2010 nationals??? I reckon other posters are right and her training just isn't going so well. Who knows how much the distance to Frank's rink affects her training but it certainly can't help. She just looked like she didn't feel ready. My heart goes out to her but in no way am I ever losing my faith in her, as long as she is still in the game.
Speaking of faith - go Caroline!! A good day for her fans who never lost faith in her too.
I missed Rachael's skate but glad to hear she picked herself back up after her short. Considering it was her first year at Standford, she at least showed she can keep it up even if she isn't where she once was. I don't know if she will retire so quickly like some believe. We shall see.
Agnes is not my absolute favorite but I do like her skating and I think she will only improve with time. She is sooo talented. I understand her flaws but no way can anyone dismiss her big jumps and her solid spins. It makes her very competitive. It must have been hard to fall from first because of mistakes but I hope she is happy with her bronze. In a way I would have liked for this to be her first trip to worlds. I don't know how she would have fared against the international field but there has to a first time for everything and Agnes is a skater who I would love to see grow and improve and become a leading American lady. Go Agnes!!
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- Nov 22, 2009
Mirai: I thought I'd read reports either on GS or other forums that she looked good in the earlier practices, fit and landing elements and looking like she was up for the game. If so, it's not likely that her training wasn't working. From the sound of the descriptions of people who saw her live, and from what little video that's out there today on the web, she looked blank. Zombie. I've seen this look before on others and I don't mean skaters.
While this may sound silly, I think she has a bad case of what us oldies used to call "stage fright". Seriously, I think this is the crux of her competition performance issues in the last year or so. Not just "feeling the pressure" which is normal in a competition and which can lead to mental mistakes and screwups. Or the normal nervous shaky-legs/knees-knocking thing when you head out on the ice....but real fright of going out there to the point where she has to put herself on autopilot to try to just get through it. It's obvious she didn't always have this issue, it really seems to have come about since the Olympics, and it seems to be getting worse with every competition.
My $0.02.
While this may sound silly, I think she has a bad case of what us oldies used to call "stage fright". Seriously, I think this is the crux of her competition performance issues in the last year or so. Not just "feeling the pressure" which is normal in a competition and which can lead to mental mistakes and screwups. Or the normal nervous shaky-legs/knees-knocking thing when you head out on the ice....but real fright of going out there to the point where she has to put herself on autopilot to try to just get through it. It's obvious she didn't always have this issue, it really seems to have come about since the Olympics, and it seems to be getting worse with every competition.
My $0.02.
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- Aug 18, 2010
Don't have time to read through over 30 pages of this thread yet. Congratulations to the medalists! Not a fan of Wagner's. But she really laid down an impressive skating at Nationals. Truly deserved the win! Czisny's style was so beautiful! Happy for Zhang! The most impressive skater for me was Flatt! She wasn't pretty, didn't have beautiful style and posture that a normal lady skater has, wasn't training fulltime, has priorities in study as a prestigeous university's student. But she made it! she did a top six finish against all these fulltime athletes!:yes::thumbsup:
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I don't think it sounds silly at all! If she was looking good in practice then it could simply be a case of nerves overwhelming her and she just hasn't found a way to deal with it. When I was growing up I took ballet and piano. Well do I remember stage fright. Some ballet performances I felt like I was just a zombie throughout the whole performance with a smile plastered on and completely failing to enjoy the moment because of nerves. One time, during a piano competition, while waiting for my turn, I completely fell apart and started crying and couldn't stop. Luckily the judges were kind and let me go last after I calmed down. I did fine. And these were nothing events, MUCH MUCH smaller events than the U.S. Figure skating championships. I can't even imagine the nerves that must go along with that and deep inside have always been amazed that skaters manage to stay on their feet at all. When my piano teacher heard about my experience, she said stage fright can kick at anytime no matter how big or small the event. It can be truly paralyzing.
All I can say is that Mirai has a solid fan base - me included - and I will continue to root for her as long as she is competing.
ETA: Okay, I finally watched Mirai's SP. What a cutie. I have to say I enjoyed it and I agree with Tara's commentary that she looked like she had more polish than ever on the in between stuff. She didn't look under trained or grumpy to be on the ice. Just nervous. I still loved her spins and general flow across the ice. Also, I didn't mind Lori's choreo for her at all. Maybe it didn't hit it out of the park but it had the potential to show off Mirai's spunk.
P.S. Does anyone else think Yasmin could really be a podium contender if her body and training go in the right direction? I think she is a very charming performer for 15 and I was impressed with the positions and centering on her spins, as well as the sharpness that she went from one position to the next on them.
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With so many people giving up on Nagasu (reminds me of Cohen fans in the mid-2000s), surprised to hear a few posters still sticking up for her. You guys are her true fans. :yes: :thumbsup:
Looking back, it was a bit bizarre how things played out. I said before that this was Wagner's best shot at the title and if she was unable to do it this time, she likely never would. Everyone else didn't seem quite in it. Good on her for taking advantage of the situation and capitalizing on the mistakes of her competitors.
The two real surprises for me were a) Zhang's re-emergence (whoa) and b) Zawadzki's short program (where did she pull that from?). I figured Zawadzki wouldn't be able to hold on to that lead but I hope she does not get discouraged. She truly looked downhearted afterward and at the press conference. In time I think she'll see that this was a real triumph- she moved up one spot from 4th to 3rd. Of course this is not the way you want to do it, but it was a new experience for her, being the leader and skating last. Next time I'm sure she'll handle it better...
And props to Wagner for FINALLY having the guts to admit she wants to win on national TV. I know Cohen did it 10 years ago and was raked over the coals for it...mostly, I suspect, because she contrasted so sharply with Kwan's reserved demeanor. But times have changed. In Wagner's own words, why put on an act? She's right, everyone wants to win. Why else would Czisny and Zawadzki be so visibly upset after their performances? They knew they were in position to win but gave it away with their mistakes in the free.
Looking back, it was a bit bizarre how things played out. I said before that this was Wagner's best shot at the title and if she was unable to do it this time, she likely never would. Everyone else didn't seem quite in it. Good on her for taking advantage of the situation and capitalizing on the mistakes of her competitors.
The two real surprises for me were a) Zhang's re-emergence (whoa) and b) Zawadzki's short program (where did she pull that from?). I figured Zawadzki wouldn't be able to hold on to that lead but I hope she does not get discouraged. She truly looked downhearted afterward and at the press conference. In time I think she'll see that this was a real triumph- she moved up one spot from 4th to 3rd. Of course this is not the way you want to do it, but it was a new experience for her, being the leader and skating last. Next time I'm sure she'll handle it better...
And props to Wagner for FINALLY having the guts to admit she wants to win on national TV. I know Cohen did it 10 years ago and was raked over the coals for it...mostly, I suspect, because she contrasted so sharply with Kwan's reserved demeanor. But times have changed. In Wagner's own words, why put on an act? She's right, everyone wants to win. Why else would Czisny and Zawadzki be so visibly upset after their performances? They knew they were in position to win but gave it away with their mistakes in the free.
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- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Add me to the list. Until she retires I'll never give up on Mirai. I do think she has to/should make some changes but I still believe she is the most talented current US ladies skater and I hope to get to watch her shine next year.
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- Feb 17, 2010
What kind of upset me was that when the commentators were talking about Agnes during the LP, they were saying that her coach was not very optimistic of a good performance because she drew to skate last. Because so much of this sport is between the ears, I hope the coach didn't suggest this to Agnes, because if the coach expresses doubt of a skater's abilities then I could see that having an effect on the performance.
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- Mar 14, 2006
^ That struck me too. How odd to put that out before your skater hits the ice. He must not be used to the limelight. That's the most charitable interpretation I can put on it.
ETA: I like this phrase: "so much of this sport is between the ears." Sad but true. (My faves so often lose it there.)
ETA: I like this phrase: "so much of this sport is between the ears." Sad but true. (My faves so often lose it there.)
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