Senior Ladies LP

[kate]

The fact is Alissa would not have gotten those kind of PCS (and might have even gotten a downgrade) if she had been skating internationally...

I'm happy for Alissa, really. But I'd love to see protocols for this -- at least two of her triples looked UR to me, the 2T+2T would usually be -GOE (it shouldn't be, but usually even nice looking "pops" at this level get negative GOE) and at least one other of her jumps had a small mistake on the landing. I think part of her magic is she weaves such a spell that it is hard to evaluate the jumps and just the jumps, but I'd love to see exactly how the protocols played out.

That said, the PCS were absolutely deserved. Everyone's marks are inflated at nationals, and unless a fall really disrupts the program, jump content should not factor into PCS.

 

[PolymerBob]

As I recall from years past, the USFSA is very fast to pick teams for the upcomming events ( 4CC, Junior Worlds, Senior Worlds ) after Nationals. I believe that last year, they picked the teams that very night.

Oooops, I forgot. One more competition to go.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Sigh, if I want to watch a pretty "performance" I'll watch the Ice Capdes. Figure skating is a SPORT. And so the Jumps DO matter. Alissa's skate was the weakest skate to win a National title, in a LONG, LONG, LONG, LONG, time. Debbie Thomas could have beaten her.

And then you have Flatt who landed 7 triples including a 3/3. She may not be as pretty as Alissa is, but well that should matter..

The fact is Alissa would not have gotten those kind of PCS (and might have even gotten a downgrade) if she had been skating internationally...

Flatt may be boring and Flatt, but she's the best skater in the US, and has been some for awhile now, and deserves that credit.

If you saw the look when the panned to Dorothy Hamilton it was one of "what?"

The jumps do matter, but so do the spins, spirals, footwork, choreography, skating skills, interpretation, etc..

 

[madibe]

Articles about Alissa's win are already up. Here's Phil Hersh's:http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/olympics/chi-25-skate-womenjan25,0,5698503.story

 

[ManyCairns]

One thing I have to say, Czisny's performance was beautiful, no doubt about it, but if we want to use crowd reaction as a measure of how good her performance was and how it should score with the judges, gotta remember she was skating for pretty much her home crowd, wasn't she?

So I think at least some of the reaction was cheering for the hometown girl. They were screaming before she started her program -- is Czisny that popular everywhere?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Most of the Ladies skated much better than their SPs.

Rachael, I would say had the best technical
Marai, was trying to be a kid again but it didn't work.
Caroline skated lovely and did it all, but Ave Maria music just doesn't have the musicvariety that the CoP is calling for.

Ashley skated well, but were her scores fair compared to others that also skated well?

Who will go to LA?

 

[bekalc]

The jumps do matter, but so do the spins, spirals, footwork, choreography, skating skills, interpretation, etc..

Alissa isn't that much better at skating skills than Flatt is. Alissa skates as slow as Flatt does, and she bends over when she's stroking. Alissa is no Kostner, Rochette, Kim, or Asada when it comes to skating skills.

Yes she's prettier performance wise, but that shouldn't give her a 3 jump lead over Flatt. It truly shouldn't.

 

[nghtvsn]

Some of you folks forget - Alissa was 5 points ahead of Rachael after the short. Look, I would have been happy with either girl winning. But Alissa's spins were considerably better as was her overall performance, the "Big Picture". As some of you have said, jumps aren't the whole picture.

I say, send these two to Worlds, don't break either's heart, they both deserve to go.

I can at least agree with this. The champ is going no matter what but Flatt needs to go simply B-cuz.

I'll rewatch these performances again on youtube when they get up there to see what I'm missing.

 

[LeCygne]

Hmm, overall I guess I'm happy. Alissa deserved to win despite the mistakes and Caroline did the best she could tonight especially with a new program (this season at least) but it just wasn't enough. I agree that she was a bit bland tonight. I think she was nervous.

I'm soo proud of Mirai for pulling through. Those tears at the beginning just about broke my heart, and to see the pure joy afterwards... I hope she comes back strong next season.

I'm glad Ashley did well too, but I don't think she deserved to win the LP. She had numerous shaky landings, barely holding to the double axel and the opening lutz and flips... It looked like some of them were underrotated or double-footed, and it's not like she had a 3-3 either...

 

[feraina]

As I recall from years past, the USFSA is very fast to pick teams for the upcomming events ( 4CC, Junior Worlds, Senior Worlds ) after Nationals. I believe that last year, they picked the teams that very night.

I guess Alissa & Rachael will go to world's, and those two + Caroline will go to 4CC? Ashley Wagner might stay home or go to JW: she's only done it once and got bronze, whereas Caroline and Mirai both did it twice. Her ISU ranking will drop if she stays home. I wonder how the rest of the JW team will play out. Ashley + Britney Rizo + Angela Maxwell? Britney and Angela might earn themselves a GP each next year if they medal. That'd be nice, to complement Bereswill and Gilles who got medals from JGPF and therefore a GP berth each.

I'm happy that Caroline will at least get to go to 4CC, hopefully. She will get to skate against some top skaters in an ISU championship, get some more experience under her belt. I still don't think it was a good idea to go back to Ave Maria. I didn't like it for her last year either, it encouraged her to skate even slower and with less energy. Sleeping Beauty was a much better program, challenging for her, sure, but would have helped her grow more as a skater. I really hope she will change coach this year. She needs to work on her speed and jump technique real fast, she doesn't have a minute to waste!

 

[ManyCairns]

I'm glad Ashley did well too, but I don't think she deserved to win the LP. She had numerous shaky landings, barely holding to the double axel and the opening lutz and flips... It looked like some of them were underrotated or double-footed, and it's not like she had a 3-3 either...

ITA. What was that? Ashley was good, but WINNING the freeskate? There were definitely some very shaky landings, and no 3-3.

 

[flying camel]

Happy for Alissa. I thought she was going to win even with the mistakes. I saw 4 triples ( 2 flips). I have to agree with some of the others, the quality of the performance was 10 times better then the others. I love Rachael, but she has the most boring programs they could find this year. She should go back to last years programs. The ones she has for this season have no wow. She skated great, but it was just blah!. It even sounded like the crowd barely clapped. Poor girl. They need to do something with those programs before worlds.

Great skates from Caroline and Ashley. Too bad we didn't have those 3 spots. Caroline really deserves to go to worlds. I picked Ashley to win. I was glad she fought and at least got 4th.

I really loved little Laney Diggs. I loved her skating, her outfit & hair were also very nice & classy. Wasn't that Carlo Fassi's wife coaching her with Frank? I wonder if they will send her to Junior Worlds. I thought Joelle was great also. I also like Gilles. She reminds me of Volchkova. What great big jumps. But did you notice the spins, they were almost as slow as Rachaels. Don't they have a specials spin coach at the rink?

What a wonderful night of skating. We have a lot of great skaters. It will be interesting to see how Alissa & Rachael skate at worlds. I can't wait to find out the intl assignments.

 

[Kissx3]

I'd agree that the top three should get Worlds/4CC & Wagner should take Jr. Worlds for the sake of her ranking. Czisny/Flatt is the best World team I could've imagined or hoped for, though Flatt needs to work on presentation just as much as Zhang, she only has consistency over her really.

 

[nghtvsn]

------------------------TSS----TES---PCS---SS---TR---PE---CH---IN-----deduct
1 Ashley Wagner--115.05 60.47 54.58 6.96 6.50 6.93 6.79 6.93 0.00 #14
2 Rachael Flatt----113.59 60.28 53.31 6.86 6.50 6.64 6.68 6.64 0.00 #21
3 Alissa Czisny----112.31 52.68 60.63 7.43 7.21 7.75 7.61 7.89 1.00 #23
4 Caroline Zhang--112.17 58.46 53.71 6.82 6.21 6.86 6.71 6.96 0.00 #22

Rachael was only 1.28 better in the long. Why bother doing jumps at all? Is Rachel going to be Sarah Hughes at the next Olympics? I can see her or Wagner competing for the gold. They both have that type of gold medal winning name.

 

[herios]

Yay for Alissa! Would have had Ashley ahead of Caroline (holy slower than molasses, Batman!), but other than that not a bad podium.

Finally someone else notices. I kept hearing here that Caroline improved her speed....Where, may I ask ? If even ScottHhamilton kept saying today both in her short and long that she needs to improve her speed (and usually Scott is very forgiving), than there is the response why Caroline is getting those low PCS marks. She still skates very slow! She comes to almost a halt entering that double axel.

 

[Wrlmy]

whole post

Maybe you didn't get the memo when Laura with 4 'easy' triples beat Alena with 6triples and 2 double axels. I know jumps do count, but non-jumping elements and artistry count as well. Rachael would've won if her program was as strong as Romantic Rhapsody from last year. That program was artistically satisfying, and Rachael came across musical and convincing. Fortunately, she is still the most technically competent skater in the US, which keeps her in the running.

Only Mao, Carolina, and Yu-Na have been able to hit 120+ with five triples, based on their strong GOEs on jumps and pcs. If anyone else can do that, I would bet on Czisny because of her strength on other elements. What she needs is a good enough short program to place in final two groups so that her pcs wouldn't suffer.

 

[shopgirl543]

Here is a cute behind the scenes video blog with Katrina Hacker:

http://web.icenetwork.com/video/

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Alissa isn't that much better at skating skills than Flatt is. Alissa skates as slow as Flatt does, and she bends over when she's stroking. Alissa is no Kostner, Rochette, Kim, or Asada when it comes to skating skills.

Yes she's prettier performance wise, but that shouldn't give her a 3 jump lead over Flatt. It truly shouldn't.

It didn't give her a 3 jump advantage. Rachael beat Alissa in the free skate.

 

[Mathman]

USFS absolutely and without considering any other possibility will send #1 Alissa and #2 Rachael to Wiorlds. They always do this, and never play games (except in the where the clear star cannot compete at Nationals because of injury.

They will invite #1, #2 and #3 to Four Continents. If one of thpose declines, they will go straight down the list to #4, #5, etc.

 

[PolymerBob]

I wonder how iron-clad these rules are. I mean, let's say the top 3 go to 4CC. What would happen if Caroline and Rachael do much better than Alissa in front of international judges?

I know, I know - rules are rules. But the USFSA has their back against a wall and their a** in a ringer. They desperately want to get back those 3 spots. And I doubt they are above a little rule bending to do it.