Sergei Voronov | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Sergei Voronov

rosy14 said:
My impression is that as soon as one skater has a minor failure (say third instead of first, or even second instead of first), Eteri loses all her interest, because she has other chicken to roost. First Julia, then Adam and Sergey. When I saw them at Finlandia Trophy, I immediately suspected another "Julia" case. Idem for Pitkeek doing so bad at Nationals (and he had done so good at Rostelecom Cup).
So after Julia, Pitkeev and Sergey, I'm pretty convinced that Eteri is so: use them , throw them as soon as they're no more profitable. I don't like her at all.
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I haven't got that impression about her at all. Yulia was struggling throughout the GP series last year, and yet Tutberidze challenged Rus Fed on her behalf before Nationals. Not only Yulia who has a sponsor, but also Pitkeev and Voronov who now claims he was side-lined got new programs choreographed abroad.

silverfoxes said:
I see no reason to doubt anything he said in the interview...he always spoke extremely highly of Eteri in the past. If he wanted to leave just because he was unhappy with the results of this season, I would think he would have lined up a new coach first instead of simply burning his bridges without even saying goodbye. He didn't seem like himself, especially at the Cup of Russia final.
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He may have thought he'd have no problem getting a new top coach, if he even asked Urmanov to take him on, despite having left him before after an unsuccessful season and having talked about him in the press in a way that hurt his feelings, as Urmanov admitted in the press.

silverfoxes said:
I don't know if Eteri consciously pays more attention to her more successful students or not, but all that really matters is the skaters' individual perception. If Sergei, or Adian or Yulia felt like they needed more attention, then they all have the right to find a coach who could give them that. Eteri's style is right for some skaters at some times, and others not...and the same goes for every other coach.
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Of course, but he could have said just that: that he believed Goncharenko or Urmanov would have more time for him in general, instead of claiming that Tutberidze lost interest in him after one unsuccessful competition or never had any interest in him except as a sparring partner. Or he could have declined to comment on his decision to switch coaches at all, as some people do, especially if, as he claims, he doesn't know her point of view.

AlexZ, I agree that coaches generally prioritize athletes who work hardest to succeed, but I don't think it matters to them where the skater came from. Neither Plushenko nor Tuktamysheva is originally from St Petersburg, but I'm sure that didn't stop Mishin from giving them his all. I'm positive Tutberidze did the same for Lipnitskaya, even for some time after Yulia had lost her motivation.

I agree, though, that Tutberidze could benefit from a special jump coach, and that she and Mishin would have made a killing combination, if they were inclined to work together, but I think Mishin is quite self-sufficient :). It must be noted, however, that even Mishin is not totally infallible. He couldn't make Tuktamysheva consistent this season, and in the past couldn't make Gachinsky's initial success last either.
 
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I do not think that when they go sour the relationship between the student and the coach, that is the coach 's fault exclusively.
 
Alexz said:
With all respect to all our favorite athletes, I gotta say that the coach has any right to push any underperforming athlete on a side and dedicate more time to more perspective one. That's sport, isn't it. Competition, evolution. It's probably not like Eteri banned him of coming in and training on ice. As I understand Eteri has a big team of specialists around her. If she personally made a bet on particular atheltes she believes in and dedicated more time and the most important best choreography programs for those - I say it's totally fair. If Voronov was underperforming, he should got back on that horse and ride it hard on getting better and sweating it out of more hours on training to prove Eteri what he is worthy.
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If it all were only about "sweating", as you say, then why on earth do skaters need coaches, in the first place? Maybe, let them train and "sweat" all by themselves, if that's the point? There can be different reasons, which prevent skaters from perfoming properly, there are different remedies for different problems - and it's a coach's work to try to sort it out, to give an athlete the guidance, the plan and schedule of training etc.

And Eteri could have been honest with him - if she doesn't know the recipe for his problems, doesn't know what to do with him, or just can't give him enough time and attention any more, she could have said so, and not leave him guess, so that he could consider what to do then. Even if she didn't need him any more, or his results and his needs suddenly stopped to suit her - all this could be sorted out honestly and tactfully, so that to make clear to him, that he has to be either satisfied with what she is able to give, or should find another way.
 
stryke said:
Ridiculous. Eteri has long term unsuccessful skaters that were never "profitable" to begin with but yet they are still with her. Both Yulia and Sergei stopped listening to Eteri so they naturally started falling. Just as Sergei said himself It is never only one persons fault.
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There has been rightful question already asked - what proof do you have of this?? Do all skaters who have problems, don't listen to their coaches? Oh, if it were this simple...:rolleye:

The "unprofitable" skaters like Moris or Tarasenko, are another story. They have been unprofitable since the very beginning, they have never been the aces of her deck, she obviously doesn't expect much from them, and they are obviously aware of their own abilities, too, so all are content with it.
 
borzaya said:
If it all were only about "sweating", as you say, then why on earth do skaters need coaches, in the first place? Maybe, let them train and "sweat" all by themselves, if that's the point? There can be different reasons, which prevent skaters from perfoming properly, there are different remedies for different problems - and it's a coach's work to try to sort it out, to give an athlete the guidance, the plan and schedule of training etc.

And Eteri could have been honest with him - if she doesn't know the recipe for his problems, doesn't know what to do with him, or just can't give him enough time and attention any more, she could have said so, and not leave him guess, so that he could consider what to do then. Even if she didn't need him any more, or his results and his needs suddenly stopped to suit her - all this could be sorted out honestly and tactfully, so that to make clear to him, that he has to be either satisfied with what she is able to give, or should find another way.
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Exactly. He said in the interview that he had to prepare for the Russian cup final almost singlehandedly. I thought the job of a coach is to coach, not for the skater to bend over backwards trying to impress and fight for attention. Maybe that extreme competitiveness works with the younger ones when they are trying to weed out the ones who won't go very far. But at the higher levels it's different. The coach isn't doing charity work, this is a business relationship. They need to provide a certain amount of service or be straightforward enough to say it isn't working, and that they oughtn't waste their time any more. I know Yulia also said something about how nice it is now with Urmanov that she isn't constantly competing every day there. Does all that mean Eteri is a bad coach? Not at all, but a skater's career is short and they need to find a new productive environment that works for them if it gets to the point where they are thinking of quitting skating.

Btw, just a general reminder that this is a fan thread, for fans...:palmf:
 
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Kind of surprising to see Sergei speaking so openly about why he left but after reading this I'm sure he had some frustrations but keeps reasonably level headed in his discussion.

On the other hand had my relationship with the coach at that moment been allright I think the work on the programmes would be different. I felt quite well the way Eteri Georgievna treats me changed and was trying to figure what was going on. Obviously every conflict has two sides and it would be silly blaming the coach in all my problems. Hence I asked her several times directly `What happened? Am not interesting anymore as an athlete' and all I heard was `Such thoughts are distractive for an athlete'
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I think it sounds like the communication broke down and similar to Yulia he became frustrated that Eteri doesn't make the same amount of time available to each student. That isn't an insult on Eteri in any way but I think just a portrayal of real life. Coaches and athletes can only function at their best when facing these realities head on and staying professional. Sergei is clearly capable of this as is revealed with his relationship and discussion about Morozov. I doubt he is harboring any grudges or anything like that.

Best of luck to Sergei!!
 
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I observed Eteri last year with Julia at the GPs, Nationals and then this year again at GPs. Her stare, her posture, all her body language (she adjusting her gloves without even touching Julia...) spoke more and more of fatigue with her, and miscontent and mistrust, etc.etc, until she gave up. The same body language I saw with Sergey and again Pitkeev this year at Nationals.
So I stay of my opinion: as soon as she realises the skater can't give more and starts to fail, she is finished with hin /her.
Another point: the whole growing process and phase of Julia was a bit strange for me, and surely Eteri didn't help too much.
 
silverfoxes said:
I know Yulia also said something about how nice it is now with Urmanov that she isn't constantly competing every day there.
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I think that has a lot to do with the fact that there's no female skater of her level in Urmanov's group. Actually, the fact that Tutberidze was able to raise so many super talented skaters from childhood speaks volumes of her coaching talent.

silverfoxes said:
...a skater's career is short and they need to find a new productive environment that works for them if it gets to the point where they are thinking of quitting skating.
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Of course, but how they handle a coaching change in the press speaks volumes about them as individuals. Leveling accusations at the former coach who'd brought them to a very high level is not the best way to do it IMO, and Voronov has done so twice: first with Urmanov and now with Tutberidze. I won't be bringing this up in this thread or anywhere anymore, but I find it difficult to maintain a wholly rosy picture of some people at the expense of others, especially when I find somebody's statements not quite credible, such as Tutberidze having lost interest in him after one unsuccessful competition at Shanghai Worlds or never having been interested in him, except as a sparring partner. It seems to me to be counter to logic, and I can't accept it at his say so. The fact that he wanted to go back to Urmanov shows that the complaints he'd leveled at Urmanov in the press when he'd left him weren't quite accurate either. But, again, I won't comment on this matter again after this post.

rosy14 said:
I observed Eteri last year with Julia at the GPs, Nationals and then this year again at GPs. Her stare, her posture, all her body language (she adjusting her gloves without even touching Julia...) spoke more and more of fatigue with her, and miscontent and mistrust, etc.etc, until she gave up. The same body language I saw with Sergey and again Pitkeev this year at Nationals. So I stay of my opinion: as soon as she realises the skater can't give more and starts to fail, she is finished with hin /her.
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As I've pointed out above, Yulia was struggling throughout the GP series last year, and yet Tutberidze challenged Rus Fed on her behalf before Nationals. Not only Yulia who has a sponsor, but also Pitkeev and Voronov who now claims he was side-lined got new programs choreographed abroad. I must admit that I find these hard facts much more persuasive than your analysis of Tutberidze's body language.

rosy14 said:
Another point: the whole growing process and phase of Julia was a bit strange for me, and surely Eteri didn't help too much.
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What's strange about it? All female skaters who are not petite by nature go through a difficult time at puberty. Some stop skating altogether, if they grow too tall or too curvy. And in the interim naturally they find it very difficult to execute triples consistently when their body keeps changing all the time. Even Mishin - a noted jump specialist - couldn't help Tuktamysheva in this respect till she'd gone through puberty.
 
Waoooh... the discussion is lively... ;)

Well, Sergei'change of coach while the season was not yet ended surprised me as much as all of you.

But it is very difficult to have an objective opinion when you don't know the complete ins and outs of the situation.

The fact is that we only know Sergei's point of view, and it sounds like sober reflection, neither agressive nor resentful :
"On the other hand had my relationship with the coach at that moment been allright I think the work on the programmes would be different. I felt quite well the way Eteri Georgievna treats me changed and was trying to figure what was going on. Obviously every conflict has two sides and it would be silly blaming the coach in all my problems. Hence I asked her several times directly `What happened? Am not interesting anymore as an athlete' and all I heard was `Such thoughts are distractive for an athlete.'" (thanks Sam-Skwantch !)

Let's try to be so !

We all know that a relationship between an athlete and his/her coach is a two-way relationship, like in a couple, and that when something is going wrong, whatever it is, it is better to express or explain it clearly if you want to avoid the situation to deteriorate.

In Sergei'case, he apparently felt sidelined, not knowing exactly why by himself and having no clear explanation from Eteri. So he prefered to change coach.
Well, it happens to many other skaters. Just look at the most famous French case, Brian Joubert, who changed coach very often ! :biggrin: too often in fact ; but it is an other story... :sarcasm:
Not anybody can be as constant with his coach as Konstantin Menshov or Patrick Chan are... more than 10 years whith their coaches or something like this ? :agree:
 
rosy14 said:
I observed Eteri last year with Julia at the GPs, Nationals and then this year again at GPs. Her stare, her posture, all her body language (she adjusting her gloves without even touching Julia...) spoke more and more of fatigue with her, and miscontent and mistrust, etc.etc, until she gave up. The same body language I saw with Sergey and again Pitkeev this year at Nationals.
So I stay of my opinion: as soon as she realises the skater can't give more and starts to fail, she is finished with hin /her.
Another point: the whole growing process and phase of Julia was a bit strange for me, and surely Eteri didn't help too much.
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I happened to read some eyewitness account of a practice session at Skate America last season, I don't know how credible that info was but according to it Eteri was totally concentrated on Evgenia the whole duration of that session while Yulia was practising jumps and having some problems with them without getting any attention from Eteri. Yulia looked like she could cry. I repeat I have no idea if it's a reliable info.
I don't think Eteri evil but she is a relatively young coach with no competitive experience of her own. She is yet to learn a lot in her business, a touch of loyalty and humanity would not go a miss.
And I disagree that skaters have to fight for a coach's attention. Sambo gets funding according to a number of athletes and their ranks. As Sergei was on the national team (as was Yulia & Adian) they were entitled to adequate amount of time & care.
The facts are that Eteri had six national team skaters a year ago. Now there are only two.
 
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Tutto said:
I happened to read some eyewitness account of a practice session at Skate America last season, I don't know how credible that info was but according to it Eteri was totally concentrated on Evgenia the whole duration of that session while Yulia was practising jumps and having some problems with them without getting any attention from Eteri. Yulia looked like she could cry. I repeat I have no idea if it's a reliable info.
I don't think Eteri evil but she is a relatively young coach with no competitive experience of her own. She is yet to learn a lot in her business, a touch of loyalty and humanity would not go a miss.
And I disagree that skaters have to fight for a coach's attention. Sambo gets funding according to a number of athletes and their ranks. As Sergei was on the national team (as was Yulia & Adian) they were entitled to adequate amount of time & care.
The facts are that Eteri had six national team skaters a year ago. Now there are only two.
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I was at the SA practice sessions, but it didn't occur to me to observe how much attention Eteri gave each girl. It is true Yulia looked pretty miserable but I don't know how much of that is just her normal demeanor (not saying she is by nature a miserable person, but a little dark and brooding perhaps...and Adian came across the same way). I can't pretend to know what was going through her mind or how much Eteri influenced her psychologically.

At the end of the day I just hope Sergei, Yulia and Adian will all be happier and have better seasons this year.

edit - one more thing that occurred to me about the interview...he said he wondered if he had just been used as a sparring partner all along, and then no longer needed. Adian never came back to the rink after Russian Nationals because of his injury. In theory that should have freed up more time for Eteri to give to Sergei, but maybe nothing changed, and that was the real wake-up call.
 
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silverfoxes said:
edit - one more thing that occurred to me about the interview...he said he wondered if he had just been used as a sparring partner all along, and then no longer needed. Adian never came back to the rink after Russian Nationals because of his injury. In theory that should have freed up more time for Eteri to give to Sergei, but maybe nothing changed, and that was the real wake-up call.
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yeah well spotted I didn't think of that. It looks like Eteri just totally concentrated on the golden girl or rather girls which of course is not fair to the rest of the group and not very professional.
But IMHO we will never learn the whole truth about this situation.
 
I'm just so looking forward to seeing them both. Hope very much that they give it their best shot after last season. :cheer2:
 
Sergei's new programs:

SP: Los Vestidos Desgarados by Alberto Iglesias

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2sSqyco6tc

FS: Exogenesis Symphony Part 3 by Muse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqnDzoJHKHU

Exogenesis has become a bit of a warhorse and not a very exciting one, imo. But the SP music is very interesting and intense. I don't know how much to read into the test skates, whether this will be a more successful season or not. But he was the only man to land 2 quads in the FS at the test skates...two-footed, but still. I think he is still on equal footing with the other top Russian men, at least - certainly no worse off. Internationally, we shall see how things go. First competition he is scheduled for is Ondrej Nepela at the end of this month.
 
Videos from the Cup of Russia:

SP
FS

Final result was Kovtun first with 268.48, Sergei a distant second with 231.96. Well...I don't want to read too much into it, being the first competition and not a very serious one, but I can't say he looks totally prepared for Ondrej Nepela. Lots to work on for sure and it doesn't seem that he has new costumes yet. But perhaps he was just getting warmed up and will have a better outing in Slovakia.
 
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