Shen & Zhao: Going for the Olympic dream

[yqs100]

Sorry, i have disagree with your comments... The comments here are critical of S/Z's LP but i can't understand how they can be labeled Harsh and nonsense. I like wonderland is not happy about the score that S/Z received considering as i said lack of ice coverage and speed(many other have raised the issue)... the elements except for throws and twist were not perfect to dish out such a big score. the comments are not hateful it is just criticism of Judging. if you check comments Plushy's , Mao's, S/S post you can see much stronger criticism. so labeling anyone critical of S/Z harsh and haters etc... are not helpful for a healthy discussion.

Sorry, i think someone started the unhealthy discussion,,,,as the score was discussed in CoC discussion area,,,dont know why somebody raise it here again ,,,just repeat repeat......very annoying

"lack of ice coverage and speed" reflects on their skating skill score already, it is the only one below 8.0 comapred to other scores, I dont know what your expected score is, 6?

i think the PCS score is quite reasonable if we have to compare to the SS's PCS in TEB

 

[antmanb]

Sorry, i know your comments were not directed at me, but i to a large extent agree with wonderland.

i love S/Z programs and i was very much looking forward to seeing what they had to offer. But, their LP was a huge disappointment. they skated clean but if you look at the program they only skated to do required elements. 20 seconds at the middle glaring at each other and deliberate posses, where they admire the beauty of each other. They are welcome to do it, after all they are a couple, but the lack of speed or ice coverage is worrying.

Their elements where shaky yet they got high score for them. If not for that pair spin they where on target 205 points +, this is indeed over scoring (i my opinion) . if plushy or any other skater is penalised for lack of transition so should marks of S/Z be penalised for lack of speed and ice coverage.

And the comment by you ant, can very well be interpreted as a comment by a die hard fan of S/Z

i know many will disagree with me, you are welcome to...

But the difference between your post and wonderland's is like night and day. You've assessed the skating, explained your reasoning by reference to the rules and given your opinion. You haven't questioned anyone's nationality for disagreeing with you or become all defensive and launched into hyperbole just because people disagree with you or ask you to explain your opinions in mroe detail. Apparently disagreement is tantamount to torture

Like I said I think you have made valid points, i might disagree with some but that's ok.

Ant

 

[Trevorgao]

Please show me the evidence how I treated everyone who does not agree with me the big fan of S/Z, and that they must think SZ is the greatest team. I'm biased towards whom in this thread? Why attack me by labeling my comments here NONSENSE? You know, S/S is not and will never be my cup of tea. Why drag this team into this pointless debate over S/Z's programs in such a forcible way? Please tone down your Harsh Words a bit, you know, GS is a free public forum in which different voices can be heard and shared. If you can't tolerate my criticism over your favorite's programs, why come over here arguing with me? To defend their honor? BTW, am I attacking their fame in the skating history by using the so-called Harsh Words here?

I'd like to straighten out my statements here once again:

I don't deny the greatness of S/Z in pairs skating descipline. And here, I'm only critical of their programs at COC. Nothing more！It is really uncivil to attack me personally in such unbearable words！

I'm still waiting for your answer to my post #24: Give us more examples as to their innovations and as to how they pushed the pairs skating to a whole new level technically back to 10 years ago.

If you want evidence from me, please show me your evidence of saying that "For you, they are a perfect pairs team, the greatest pairs in figure skating history" first. Your asking for evidence is sign that you are not interested in talking about pair skating here, but in winning this conversation over me and who disagrees with you.

My first post in this thread is based on my interest in seeing SZ's comeback and how people debate over SS and SZ's chance of winning the OGM. So why I cannot bring SS into the discussion then? That post was not aiming at attacking anyone or anything. It was just "I am saying what I saw". But your reply was sarcastic (oh is "sarcastic" a sarcastic word? Please allow me be sarcastic for a second). I think it was sarcastic because you have said that you have watched figure skating for many years, but you ask me to "Give us more examples as to their innovations and as to how they pushed the pairs skating to a whole new level technically back to 10 years ago." TWICE. U really do not know the pair skating history? The using of "us" seems to be telling me that I am the only one who thinks SZ has brought contribution to the pair skating. Also, since you never agree with me, is it sacarstic by saying "Great interpretations from you!" ? Isn't it sacarstic or how should I interpret it?

I have re-read my post here. I was originally just trying to put my thoughts and leave the conversation. But my post received such sarcasm which disappointed me quite a lot.

If you think my reply is what I am trying to attack you personally, it is just the way I return what I have got.

 

[demarinis5]

I will be rooting for S/Z for gold in February. They have been my favorite team for years, yes way back when they were known as technicians rather than artists, now they are known as both.

From the first moment that they take to the ice and clasp hands I know that I am about to witness mastery from champions.

 

[yqs100]

I will be rooting for S/Z for gold in February. They have been my favorite team for years, yes way back when they were known as technicians rather than artists, now they are known as both.

From the first moment that they take to the ice and clasp hands I know that I am about to witness mastery from champions.

totally agree with you

yeah~~~

 

[Tonichelle]

Petty bickering needs to be taken to PM or off the board. Let's focus on the article/skaters/skating.

 

[TCAngel18]

I'm still waiting for your answer to my post #24: Give us more examples as to their innovations and as to how they pushed the pairs skating to a whole new level technically back to 10 years ago.

I'm still waiting for your answer to my post #24: Give us more examples as to their innovations and as to how they pushed the pairs skating to a whole new level technically back to 10 years ago.

I tried to answer this last night, but my computer froze on me, so i got pissed, said f- it, and went to sleep...ok.

Shen and Zhao first burst onto the scene during the Nagano Olympics. They had competed at Worlds since 95, and placed 16th in 96 and 11th in Lausanne in 97. Their short program during the olympics placed them 8th, because of the artistic merit scores. They had the 3rd best technical scores of the competition during the short program, which was unheard of from an Asian pairs team at the time. Their Long Program was met with greater success, placing 3rd, with the
2nd best technical scores. This brought them up to 5th place. Their long program featured 2 GIGANTIC throw jumps, the salchow and the loop, and a LATERAL triple twist that was done by no one else at the time. They also had 3 side by side jumps, i believe, the triple toe, the double axel-double toe sequence, and the double flip, i may be wrong on that one, but they definitely had at least two. No other pair team, except Ina/Dungjen, could match that technical prowess, including the Olympic Champions, Kazakova/Dmitriev, who only had the sbs triples, a throw triple toe and salchow eked out, and a low split triple twist.

Next, we have the 99 Worlds, held in Helsinki. They were up against the team many thought could have won it all in Nagano, Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze. What did they do? The same technical elements thrown out there, with flair and fervor, with an added artistic shine. They narrowly lost the gold to B/S, either 5/4 or 6/3, but had technical scores none below 5.8.

They would stay in the top 3 for the next 3 years. Fast forward to Salt Lake City. Winter Olympics 2002. They have a great short program, but find themselves in 3rd, and know realistically they do not have a great shot at gold. They follow their Olympic dream, and the dreams of many others: go big, or go home. They attempt the 1st ever throw Quadruple Salchow, and Xue has the landing for half a second, then loses it. They still manage a Bronze medal, but in doing so, almost make history.

The next 3 years show them in a tight battle with the 4th place finishers from Salt Lake, Totmianina and Marinin. Until 2006, Shen and Zhao always beat T/M with the technical merit. Zhao got injured in 2005, and was a long shot to compete in Turin. But lo and behold, they came back, and in a gutsy performance, achieved another bronze medal.

After 2007 worlds, where Hongbo proposed to Xue, they took two years off to possibly retire, and enjoy married life. Then they got the competing bug back, and within a few months, came into the Cup of China, stormed back with the 3rd best combined score ever, even with a few kinks, and showed the world what consistent, passionate performers they are and always have been...

and that is how they have pushed the envelope, compared to others. 1st team to have 3 sbs jumps in olympics, 1st team to attempt throw quad, 1st asian team to medal in international competition, worlds, and olympics, etc.

 

[TCAngel18]

one thing I forgot to add that makes them innovative is their grace and style. Most skaters who have been thought to be graceful have always seemed to be graceful, like it is in their bones. Sasha Cohen, Yuka Sato, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Rahkamo/Kokko, Johnny Weir, etc. Have always shown that flow, that serene quality. Shen and Zhao definitely did not show that their first 3 years competing internationally. They innovatively have shown that a supreme level of artistry can in fact be learned, and not inherent in the skater. That shows hard work, dedication, and a love for the sport like no other...

 

[hongligl]

I'm a S/Z fan and I'm proud of that. I don't need to hide it. When they first mentioned that they were thinking of coming back, I was skeptical. I was wondering if they could regain their competitive capacity considering their age. I'm just thrilled to see that they not only come back, but become better, both artisticly and technically. Whoever has watched their programs would have noticed the innovative elements that never appeared before. They're technically stronger than they were. Their performance and presentation are just of a class of their own. It's not hard to understand that they got higher score even when they were still not perfect. I'm rooting for them for OGM! They deserve it.

They have that mojo of their own, and their hayday is still to come. I hope they culminate at olympics and give us two performances of life time to be enjoyed for years to come.

 

[Ginask8s]

S/Z are my favorite pair team. One thing that strikes me about them is the fact that they are both equally competent singles skaters. I think many of the pairs have a weaker link,which ultimately makes them vulnerable.S/Z have it all. Thank goodness they will definitely be showing up at Skate America!

 

[Hikaru]

I'm a S/Z fan and I'm proud of that. I don't need to hide it. When they first mentioned that they were thinking of coming back, I was skeptical. I was wondering if they could regain their competitive capacity considering their age. I'm just thrilled to see that they not only come back, but become better, both artisticly and technically. Whoever has watched their programs would have noticed the innovative elements that never appeared before. They're technically stronger than they were. Their performance and presentation are just of a class of their own. It's not hard to understand that they got higher score even when they were still not perfect. I'm rooting for them for OGM! They deserve it.

They have that mojo of their own, and their hayday is still to come. I hope they culminate at olympics and give us two performances of life time to be enjoyed for years to come.

whole post

 

[antmanb]

Just a quick correction - S&Z actually competed at worlds in 1994 (they weren't at worlds in 1995).

Also in terms of innovation - I think that they do deserve credit for being the first (and i think only!) couple to ever do the most difficult death sprial on a FO edge.

I also feel like they are pretty unique as pair skaters for their longevity which allowed them to go from a pair that cimply completed elements (some often not that well e.g. spins and lifts) to a pair that managed to develop into a great artisitc pair that created beautiful programmes together with strong all around elements.

Ant

 

[carolinafan4ever]

I was also wondering if they could pull it off, but they looks awesome! I really admire them. I think they could win the gold!

 

[Skatetomusic]

I think they are the greatest ambassadors to our sport this year!

 

[skatesindreams]

hongligl, I echo everything you said.
They have even managed to create programs that transcend the CoP and make you forget about "points", "elements" and "levels".

I want them to win the OGM because they are working so hard to earn it, by producing the very best programs, The medal would be the deserved fulfillment for their lifetime of effort.

It has been a joy and privilege to watch them for all these years,
I don't have the words to adequately express my admiration and respect for all that they have given to skating, and to their public.

Bravo!

 

[wewe008]

Shen and Zhao are really huge. I love them so much. Unlike G/G, who have and enjoy the art temperament of nature, who were born with grace and beauty, S/Z keep improving themselves with diligence and perseverance day by day, year by year, step by step. They overcomed so many deadly difficulties and never gave up their dreams. They are the heroes of heroes forever.
I was so excited to see their performances on COC. Despite several mistakes and a little slower speed than before, in many ways they are even better than they were. The strong emotion they bring to each other as a couple and of course, to the audience, the moving their unchangeable pursuit of dream and the incredible comeback inspire us are just what the figure skating ,even the whole sport needs.
In my eye, such are the performances as the first competition I want——imperfect with some little mistakes but fabulous to the judge and audience. According to what Zhao and their coach, Yao said, they have their own plan to solve the problem of their energies and their speed.
Actually, there are several factors needing to meet with to get the GOE. And that`s why you can see +1,+2,+3.So it`s quite normal to see a movement get it in spite of some factors not perfect. What`s more, don`t you think the PCS for all the skaters this year are a little higher than that you thought before?
I was deeply moved by S/Z since 2006.The sadness they encountered, the happiness they seek for their life……They need the gold medal. It is a dream deeply rooted in their heart for nearly 10 years. They missed too many chances.I really hope they can fulfill their dreams in 2010 because they deserve it.

Totally agreed. They work so hard to improve all the way. They are so close to the gold several times, but failed. Now they come back, still gorgous. I hope they win the Olympics, cause they deserve it most.

I tried to answer this last night, but my computer froze on me, so i got pissed, said f- it, and went to sleep...ok.

Shen and Zhao first burst onto the scene during the Nagano Olympics. They had competed at Worlds since 95, and placed 16th in 96 and 11th in Lausanne in 97. Their short program during the olympics placed them 8th, because of the artistic merit scores. They had the 3rd best technical scores of the competition during the short program, which was unheard of from an Asian pairs team at the time. Their Long Program was met with greater success, placing 3rd, with the
2nd best technical scores. This brought them up to 5th place. Their long program featured 2 GIGANTIC throw jumps, the salchow and the loop, and a LATERAL triple twist that was done by no one else at the time. They also had 3 side by side jumps, i believe, the triple toe, the double axel-double toe sequence, and the double flip, i may be wrong on that one, but they definitely had at least two. No other pair team, except Ina/Dungjen, could match that technical prowess, including the Olympic Champions, Kazakova/Dmitriev, who only had the sbs triples, a throw triple toe and salchow eked out, and a low split triple twist.

Next, we have the 99 Worlds, held in Helsinki. They were up against the team many thought could have won it all in Nagano, Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze. What did they do? The same technical elements thrown out there, with flair and fervor, with an added artistic shine. They narrowly lost the gold to B/S, either 5/4 or 6/3, but had technical scores none below 5.8.

They would stay in the top 3 for the next 3 years. Fast forward to Salt Lake City. Winter Olympics 2002. They have a great short program, but find themselves in 3rd, and know realistically they do not have a great shot at gold. They follow their Olympic dream, and the dreams of many others: go big, or go home. They attempt the 1st ever throw Quadruple Salchow, and Xue has the landing for half a second, then loses it. They still manage a Bronze medal, but in doing so, almost make history.

The next 3 years show them in a tight battle with the 4th place finishers from Salt Lake, Totmianina and Marinin. Until 2006, Shen and Zhao always beat T/M with the technical merit. Zhao got injured in 2005, and was a long shot to compete in Turin. But lo and behold, they came back, and in a gutsy performance, achieved another bronze medal.

After 2007 worlds, where Hongbo proposed to Xue, they took two years off to possibly retire, and enjoy married life. Then they got the competing bug back, and within a few months, came into the Cup of China, stormed back with the 3rd best combined score ever, even with a few kinks, and showed the world what consistent, passionate performers they are and always have been...

and that is how they have pushed the envelope, compared to others. 1st team to have 3 sbs jumps in olympics, 1st team to attempt throw quad, 1st asian team to medal in international competition, worlds, and olympics, etc.

Good words.:thumbsup: Anyone can see how hard their way was, how many difficulties they dad to face with, and how many great programs they had shown to us. I can't figure out who deserve Olympic Champions more than these two.