Shibsib spat

[Skating91]

Kind of lost me at the 'weak mind' part. No longer just frustration but being nasty.

What's Lease trying to do by releasing this? Show there are a handful of people more nasty than himself in the skating community?

It's not right, but maybe just some kind of blow up that Maia has seen a hundred times and knows her brother is a harmless a*****e you ignore for the most part. Of course, not right.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Okay, my thoughts:

David Lease is still a piece of garbage of a person. He's not the good guy for releasing this. And on his Patreon? Why is he trying to cling onto relevance. Most people have turned away from him (Thank G-D).

I get being frustrated about stuff not working out in practice. It happens. This isn't that.

Swear words being thrown out isn't a problem. Berating someone is a problem.

Some people go into a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response to yelling or other stressful stuff.

That was unacceptable of what Alex did. He was acting...pretty pathetic tbh.

 

[demarinis5]

I asked the other day in their FF if there was any news about the Shibs. Imagine my shock when I came across this video yesterday. This was not the news I was expecting, thank you very much. Distressing video

 

[noskates]

I'm not trying to cover anyone's backside and I don't think this incident has frightened away the Shib's fanbase. I also think Lease is a nasty attention mongering individual and I don't trust much of what he does or why he does it. Having said that -clearly there was an incident but what isn't clear is whether it's the norm for this duo, a one-off situation or they were caught on a bad day. There are so many more things in the world to get concerned about than a spat between siblings. I think we should all give it a rest and move on. It really IS their business and not for us to judge.

 

[TontoK]

I'm saving this thread for the next time I read someone get on their highhorse and dramatically proclaim:

"There's no room for abuse in our sport!"

Clearly there is plenty of room if you put forth a little effort to justify it.

 

[Skating91]

I'm saving this thread for the next time I read someone get on their highhorse and dramatically proclaim:

"There's no room for abuse in our sport!"

Clearly there is plenty of room if you put forth a little effort to justify it.

He seems like bit of a jerk or a man child who can't control his emotions, but she handled it quite well.

 

[Lamente Ariane]

I couldn't make it all the way through the video, but one phrase that jumped out at me as disturbing was "you don't have the right to question me." Alex talks to Maia in this video like he doesn't realize that everything he's achieved in this sport, everything he's achieved period wasn't also achieved by her. It goes way beyond disrespectful into delusional arrogance with more than a hint of misogyny.

More food for thought: someone must have tipped Dave Lease off for him to find this footage in the first place, probably someone (or multiple someones) training or working at the same rink. I find it highly unlikely that he was just scouring hours and hours of Live Barn footage searching blindly for something scurrilous. It's a lot more likely that this has happened often enough that Lease started watching the feed because of rumors/rink gossip that he was sent.

 

[Mathman]

A couple of points. First. I think we should take the "abuse" thing off the table. Abuse in figure skating means a coach pressuring his underage student to have sex, or berating the child to the point of psychological distress.

Second, Mr. Lease has neither enhanced nor diminished his general reputation in the skating community as a horse's ass. Ho, hum.

Third, who am I to judge?... but... I will anyway. Alex should not talk to his sister that way. If this is a common occurrence, double shame on him. He shouuld apologize for his (verbal) behavior, vow to do better in the future, and move on.

Fourth, how will fans react? Dunno -- that's up to them. There has been criticism before of this team over off-ice issues; this doesn't help. Does the USFSA care about skaters' public image as affecting their brand? -- probably not.

 

[TontoK]

A couple of points. First. I think we should take the "abuse" thing off the table. Abuse in figure skating means a coach pressuring his underage student to have sex, or berating the child to the point of psychological distress.

Second, Mr. Lease has neither enhanced nor diminished his general reputation in the skating community as a horse's ass. Ho, hum.

Third, who am I to judge?... but... I will anyway. Alex should not talk to his sister that way. If this is a common occurrence, double shame on him. He shouuld apologize for his (verbal) behavior, vow to do better in the future, and move on.

Fourth, how will fans react? Dunno -- that's up to them. There has been criticism before of this team over off-ice issues; this doesn't help. Does the USFSA care about skaters' public image as affecting their brand? -- probably not.

I respect you deeply.

I disagree with point 1, don't care about point 2, respect your decision not to judge in point 3 but retain my own right to judge that POS Alex Shibutani, and I think the jury's out on point 4 although I can guarantee that one former fan has turned away in disgust.

 

[Adeline14]

The amount of people here, who despite the glaring opposite evidence of the video here, maintain that
A. This is normal sibling behaviour, nothing special here, haha
B. The real perp is not the abuser, but the person who leaked the video
C. Maia is not the victim, we do not know the context ( don't need to, it's obvious)
D. The most disturbing statement that Maia actually will be HURT by this being made public, the best thing for HER would be to hush this all up

Is astounding. And sad to me.

 

[Arriba627]

Does anyone know -- is that standard practice that Live Barn is on during private sessions?

 

[Mathman]

I respect you deeply.

I disagree with point 1,(about "abuse.")

Thank you. As I respect you.

I guess I was using this term in a more strict legal sense. The point that I hoped to make was that this incident is not the sort of thing that SafeSport is commissioned to investigate. It is not the sort of thing that the police are interested in, or that the criminal courts involve themselves with. A 31-year-old woman is cussed out by her brother. This is terrible behavior, shame on him.

To me, it is hardly even about skating. Yes, the principals are figure skaters and the argument was about skating. This neither aggravates nor mitigates Alex's tirade, IMHO.

 

[moonvine]

Does anyone know -- is that standard practice that Live Barn is on during private sessions?

It’s my understanding that it’s an always on type thing.

 

[el henry]

We don't know the backstory. We don't know what happened or what the Shibs' dynamic is or how they normally train.

That said,

1. I am a Philadelphia Eagles fan, who has heard it all and said it all I really dislike the stereotype (and particularly since I am in a certain demographic) that I am sitting around going "Oh no, those are bad words". Just watch me go cuss out Santa, and throw some snowballs while I'm at it (IYKYK)

3. I don’t care how frustrated a coworker was with me, I don’t care if I made a mistake that set back a project five weeks, if they called me a dumb * bitch, I would be out of there in seconds. Not acceptable.

4. If my brother called me a dumb * bitch, unless I had done something like kill his dog, I would slap him upside the head and be out of there.

This is not acceptable frustrated sibling and/or coworker behavior. For anyone. And if this is how they normally interact, I don't know what possible good skating together is doing for them. None that I can see

 

[chepe]

More food for thought: someone must have tipped Dave Lease off for him to find this footage in the first place, probably someone (or multiple someones) training or working at the same rink. I find it highly unlikely that he was just scouring hours and hours of Live Barn footage searching blindly for something scurrilous. It's a lot more likely that this has happened often enough that Lease started watching the feed because of rumors/rink gossip that he was sent.

I understand he has published video material of Shibs training before (videos of more benign nature, I suppose), I guess he has been on a lookout for some time, knows where they train, knowing that people are interested about ShibShib's return (however it goes).

 

[yuki@thelake]

Does anyone know -- is that standard practice that Live Barn is on during private sessions?

Detroit Skating Club just sent today in their newsletter that "Live Barn will be locked during all figure skating sessions to respect the privacy of our club and our skaters." Won't be surprised if other rinks follow suit with this one.

 

[Arriba627]

@yuki@thelake Thanks for that info. I can see Live Barn during hockey games or freestyle sessions, etc. , but this struck me as very odd.

 

[TontoK]

We don't know the backstory. We don't know what happened or what the Shibs' dynamic is or how they normally train.

That said,

1. I am a Philadelphia Eagles fan, who has heard it all and said it all I really dislike the stereotype (and particularly since I am in a certain demographic) that I am sitting around going "Oh no, those are bad words". Just watch me go cuss out Santa, and throw some snowballs while I'm at it (IYKYK)

3. I don’t care how frustrated a coworker was with me, I don’t care if I made a mistake that set back a project five weeks, if they called me a dumb * bitch, I would be out of there in seconds. Not acceptable.

4. If my brother called me a dumb * bitch, unless I had done something like kill his dog, I would slap him upside the head and be out of there.

This is not acceptable frustrated sibling and/or coworker behavior. For anyone. And if this is how they normally interact, I don't know what possible good skating together is doing for them. None that I can see

I've self-reflected as to why this has affected me so deeply.

And I think I understand why. I treasure my sister. I always have. We're only a year apart - missed being "Irish Twins" by only a week. When no one else in the world has stood by me, she has. And vice versa. I think I sort of assume every brother/sister has this kind of relationship - at least to some degree. Maybe I'm projecting my sister and me onto this completely different dynamic.

I can't imagine speaking to my sweet sister the way POS Alex spoke to Maia. And I think perhaps I'm emotionally connecting in this as though he spoke to MY sister that way. And my blood boils. I'm far too old to beat up the bully like I did in high school, and I don't even know these people (or particularly care about them on a personal level), but I'm furious about it.

Ultimately, it's up to Maia to determine what she's willing to tolerate from POS Alex in pursuit of her dream - if we can even be certain it IS her dream, and she hasn't been bullied into it. But my feelings are my own, and they're not changing. I view him, and I will always view him, as a pitiful excuse for a man who deserves derision in every aspect of his life. He'll always get it from me. I detest him now. I can never, ever root for him in any endeavor, and sadly that means I can't root for her either. I hope they abandon this come-back attempt, so I don't have to hear about him this season.

 

[4everchan]

The amount of people here, who despite the glaring opposite evidence of the video here, maintain that
A. This is normal sibling behaviour, nothing special here, haha

If you and your siblings have never had arguments, that's a huge privilege. For me personally, and for others in this thread, siblings quarrelling to that level is something that was experienced and not always as harmful as it may look to an outsider. Not everyone has had the chance to be raised in a peaceful and respectful family. I am not going to pretend it was my case when it wasn't the case. It doesn't mean that I am banalizing what has happened but simply that it may look worse than it actually is, depending on their personal dynamics.

B. The real perp is not the abuser, but the person who leaked the video

I don't think this is what people are saying. People are saying that Dave Lease is vile and crass and is looking for any single way to create drama. He thrives on it. Isn't that true ? So, mentioning how gross Dave Lease is not saying that Alex wasn't out of line. The two things can co-exist.

D. The most disturbing statement that Maia actually will be HURT by this being made public, the best thing for HER would be to hush this all up

Is astounding. And sad to me.

Well, you'd be surprised about the many people who are in a difficult relationship with a family member who would prefer it not to be made public. It can be very painful for someone who is suffering already to have their life exposed like this, adding many layers of "shame" to their already existing pain and fear. There is no way anyone can make this call other than Maia herself. Perhaps she would never make it, perhaps she would do so when she'd be ready to do so... but Dave Lease is certainly not the person who should make it, nor anyone on another site, YouTube or GS or whatever. Who knows what Alex represents for Maia outside of skating, as a brother, and perhaps as one of the ones who supported her through highs and lows ? In a familial dynamic, these moments of aggressive behaviour can quickly be erased by all the love and support that may have also been there for years. These are very complex emotions people go through all the time.

I think it's absolutely normal to be upset when watching this video. I am too. At the same time, in my opinion, it's easy and dangerous to judge anyone on ten minutes of their lives. I am pretty sure that many of us have had moments of that nature that we are glad were not shared publicly. I admire those who can keep their temper at all times.

May Alex learn from this, is my point of view. I am not defending him nor excusing him. However you won't see me throwing stones at him.

 

[4everchan]

I've self-reflected as to why this has affected me so deeply.

And I think I understand why. I treasure my sister. I always have. We're only a year apart - missed being "Irish Twins" by only a week. When no one else in the world has stood by me, she has. And vice versa. I think I sort of assume every brother/sister has this kind of relationship - at least to some degree. Maybe I'm projecting my sister and me onto this completely different dynamic.

Trust me, I wish I had this kind of relationship with my siblings. Unfortunately, I don't. As I have said previously, you are blessed.

I can't imagine speaking to my sweet sister the way POS Alex spoke to Maia. And I think perhaps I'm emotionally connecting in this as though he spoke to MY sister that way. And my blood boils. I'm far too old to beat up the bully like I did in high school, and I don't even know these people (or particularly care about them on a personal level), but I'm furious about it.

It is okay to feel furious about it... because it's nothing you would stand for.

Ultimately, it's up to Maia to determine what she's willing to tolerate from POS Alex in pursuit of her dream - if we can even be certain it IS her dream, and she hasn't been bullied into it. But my feelings are my own, and they're not changing. I view him, and I will always view him, as a pitiful excuse for a man who deserves derision in every aspect of his life. He'll always get it from me. I detest him now. I can never, ever root for him in any endeavor, and sadly that means I can't root for her either. I hope they abandon this come-back attempt, so I don't have to hear about him this season.

That's your prerogative. But what really matters is what Maia feels and how she views all of this. I hope she has support she needs to make the decisions that are the right ones for her.

Regarding skating, my opinion is that it's exactly because their comeback means so much to them and because perhaps it is way harder than they thought that this tension has built up. I don't think it's going to be a successful one and considering this now, there is even less chance that it will go well.