Shibsib spat | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Shibsib spat

No one is required to like or dislike any skater - any sports player, any celebrity major or minor - and they can choose how they feel and whether they support or not for any reason they choose. There are three current skaters I immediately turn off and will never even watch so I can't pronounce on their skating because of their - to me - extremely unpleasant personalities. I make no apologies for it, any more than I would for an actor whose film or show I won't pay to watch, or a musician I mute on the radio because I prefer to pretend they do not exist. And the reverse is also true.
 
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Your comment, which was in response and in agreement with someone saying "they would not support the Shibs anymore", denigrates someone's work and achievements because of something else unrelated.

It's a completely anti-intellectual stance...
I disagree that this is an anti-intellectual or illogical stance.

If I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister, therefore (b) he is an untalented figure skater" -- yes, that would not qualify as a example of logical inference.

But if I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister and I do not give my support or approval to people who are mean to their sisters. Therefore (b) I will not buy a ticket to watch him skate, however talented he may be" -- that is neither logical nor illogical, neither intellectual nor 'anti-intellectual.

(That's what I think, anyway, regardless of the merits of this particular case. :) )
 
I disagree that this is an anti-intellectual or illogical stance.

If I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister, therefore (b) he is an untalented figure skater" -- yes, that would not qualify as a example of logical inference.

But if I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister and I do not give my support or approval to people who are mean to their sisters. Therefore (b) I will not buy a ticket to watch him skate, however talented he may be" -- that is neither logical nor illogical, neither intellectual nor 'anti-intellectual.

(That's what I think, anyway, regardless of the merits of this particular case. :) )
Boiling it down: The world is full of assholes. I can acknowledge they exist without supporting them. On the other hand, I can even choose to support them if the alternative is worse.

There are plenty of alternatives to Alex Shibutani that I like better, so I don't even have to make the determination to support or not.
 
I have more of an issue with Simon because he was insulting someone who wasn't even there nor probably worked with him regularly. His intentions were just viles. I can see in the Shibs a lot of issues but also an intent of skating better. I don't think telling at your partner is the easy to some things but there is a common goal... Simon was just a jerk
Have you ever said you don't like someone or words to that effect in a private conversation?
 
Would he be apologizing if not for the fact that he was caught on record behaving this way and due to the public backlash?
Alex did say that he apologized to Maia at the end of their practice and acknowledged that he was completely wrong. There would have been no need to make a public apology if the video had not been leaked to the public. I suppose it's up to fans as to whether or not they forgive him.

I've decided to forgive him.
 
Have you ever said you don't like someone or words to that effect in a private conversation?

Simon, even if it were in a private conversation as he thought his microphone was off, was talking ill about Meagan (who is another commentator, so a colleague). to his colleague of the day. It may have been during a break, but he was "at work" and his behaviour harmed not only himself but his employer. You just cannot do that in the professional world. It doesn't matter if it's private or not. You'd get fired immediately in my field. And I guess, he did lose his job.

For sure, people talk about other people, to family and friends...Many have probably mentioned to a friend how their boss is this or that... It's not relevant. It'a about work environment and coworkers. It's actually against the code of conduct of many workplaces to do such a thing. In some countries, it's probably against the work laws as well.
 
Have you ever said you don't like someone or words to that effect in a private conversation?
I know this question is not addressed to me and that further it is about this Simon, whoever he is, and not the Shibs.

But I will say that, no, I have never spoken to my sister in such a way, not once in 81 years. I have never said to anyone in private conversation, "I don't like my sister."

Well, other people may have had other experiences. Whatever, I suppose. :(
 
But I will say that, no, I have never spoken to my sister in such a way, not once in 81 years. I have never said to anyone in private conversation, "I don't like my sister."
I have said that I love all my relatives, but some of them I don't like. There are reasons. Not everyone is likeable, no matter how we try.
 
I know this question is not addressed to me and that further it is about this Simon, whoever he is, and not the Shibs.

But I will say that, no, I have never spoken to my sister in such a way, not once in 81 years. I have never said to anyone in private conversation, "I don't like my sister."

Well, other people may have had other experiences. Whatever, I suppose. :(
Simon Reed, who called Meagan Duhamel "that b*#$# from Canada" on a hot mike, blessing us all with the absence of his commentary, and that of Nicky Slater, forevermore. eta: well, from the ISU feed, anyway. I think Simon is back on Eurosport.
 
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In the current sociopolitical climate we live in where hatred and division have run rampant among our “leaders”, we should strive to be kinder and more empathetic to one another
Exclaiming that you will refuse to view someone's work (and therefore be incapable of judging it, which is necessary if you're trying to discuss a competitive event) is exactly a lack of empathy and only diminishes your own mind, literally forcing it to be more ignorant.

If I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister, therefore (b) he is an untalented figure skater" -- yes, that would not qualify as a example of logical inference.

But if I say, "(a) this guy is mean to his sister and I do not give my support or approval to people who are mean to their sisters. Therefore (b) I will not buy a ticket to watch him skate, however talented he may be" -- that is neither logical nor illogical, neither intellectual nor 'anti-intellectual.
Someone being mean to their sister has nothing to do with their skating. You either like their skating or you don't, and that opinion should not change depending on a perceived off-ice personality. The merit of the artwork exists on its own and if you are censoring yourself from seeing it for no good reason, that's anti-intellectual. It makes you incapable of giving intellectual discourse on the topic, as you have removed yourself from being able to do so.

Importantly, there are many skaters at an event, and none of the skaters at these events make money from ticket sales anyway. Anyone who is watching a competition is already experiencing it regardless. It's simply petty to decide that you will refuse to watch a certain thing, at no detriment to yourself or anyone else. We aren't talking about buying clothes from a sweatshop manufacturer here. And anyone who has ever gone to a sports event and bought plastic food containers is already a hypocrite and contributing to the World's problems.

Why does it matter that it's his sister anyway? Your proclamation that you've never said you dislike your sister (which isn't even what was being said in the clip) is simply a statement that you've never had reason to say such a thing about your sister. Umm, good for you? That's not the reality of life for everyone.

Also funny how everyone is just blindly assuming Maia has never made similar comments to him and that their conversation is something she deems unacceptable. For all anyone knows, they have arguments like this semi-frequently and to her it's fine, because she wants to be real with each other and push each other to be their best, and having heated moments is something that will pass and doesn't change how they will still support each other.

Simon, even if it were in a private conversation as he thought his microphone was off, was talking ill about Meagan

And Maegan has publicly "talked ill" about her competitors and the judges. Which should be completely common place. If you think someone's program is trash or the judges are scoring things incorrectly, then say so. Some people in return felt Maegan was being a b***h by saying the things she did, and said so in private. A completely normal occurrence. It's simply people expressing their opinions. Nobody is innocent there, and that unrelated opinion never changed their commentary of the performances, including hers when she was competing.

Have you ever said you don't like someone or words to that effect in a private conversation?
Everyone has. Anyone who says differently is lying. People just want to feel better about their own morality by jumping on instances like this where there's an easy target.

Everyone also disagrees with the religious or political opinions of many other people on the planet. I find that religion has caused far more harm to society than it has helped. Should I block myself from everything that has ever been produced by a religious person, or a Trump supporter, because of my dislike of those things? No, that only creates more problems, the same here in these instances of trying to entirely discredit and diminish another person because you dislike one thing they said.
 
No one is required to like or dislike any skater - any sports player, any celebrity major or minor - and they can choose how they feel and whether they support or not for any reason they choose. There are three current skaters I immediately turn off and will never even watch so I can't pronounce on their skating because of their - to me - extremely unpleasant personalities. I make no apologies for it, any more than I would for an actor whose film or show I won't pay to watch, or a musician I mute on the radio because I prefer to pretend they do not exist. And the reverse is also true.
It was sad to see the Shibsibs struggle so much. No matter what has happened this was tragic. Keegan Messing, Sui and Han, the Shibsibs have not had very godo returns. Granted Messing has never won a major medal but these comebacks are sad and I rather remember them for their good days years ago. I truly hope they are happy they did it.
 
Anyone got a link to the Shib video where a brother and sister are having a family argument and the internet is losing their pearl-clutching minds over? Thanks.
It’s in the first post of this thread.
 
It was sad to see the Shibsibs struggle so much. No matter what has happened this was tragic. Keegan Messing, Sui and Han, the Shibsibs have not had very godo returns. Granted Messing has never won a major medal but these comebacks are sad and I rather remember them for their good days years ago. I truly hope they are happy they did it.
Keegan won a silver medal at 4CCs. That is a major medal.
 
It was sad to see the Shibsibs struggle so much. No matter what has happened this was tragic. Keegan Messing, Sui and Han, the Shibsibs have not had very godo returns. Granted Messing has never won a major medal but these comebacks are sad and I rather remember them for their good days years ago. I truly hope they are happy they did it.
It was always a risk/reward thing for each of them, and I guess if they didn't do it they would always wonder 'what if...'
 
I know this question is not addressed to me and that further it is about this Simon, whoever he is, and not the Shibs.

But I will say that, no, I have never spoken to my sister in such a way, not once in 81 years. I have never said to anyone in private conversation, "I don't like my sister."

Well, other people may have had other experiences. Whatever, I suppose. :(
I'm beginning to think that the range of reactions may have a correlation to age, and I'm just an outdated old dinosaur.

Like you, I've got a few summers under my belt, and I am absolutely appalled by how he acted and what he said - I dispute his right to call himself a man. Those who I perceive to be younger (and to be fair, at my age, most people ARE younger), well, they seem to shrug it off.

Perhaps you and I are clinging to a bygone era. You know, an era when boys were brought up to treasure their little sisters, and one in which grown men don't scream at women calling them mindless bitches. But, hey, that's progress for you.
 
Someone being mean to their sister has nothing to do with their skating. You either like their skating or you don't, and that opinion should not change depending on a perceived off-ice personality.
I think that this is a straw man argument. Has anyone said that this incident has made Alex' skating worse than it was before?

(Although now that I think about it. it is not out of the question that friction between partners might have a negative impact on a team's performance.)
 
Perhaps you and I are clinging to a bygone era. You know, an era when boys were brought up to treasure their little sisters, and one in which grown men don't scream at women calling them mindless bitches.
Well, I have one foot in the grave, but I do have to admit that I was taken aback by all the posts that seemed to say, "Well, of course I scream obscenities at my little sister. Doesn't everyone?"
 
And Maegan has publicly "talked ill" about her competitors and the judges. Which should be completely common place. If you think someone's program is trash or the judges are scoring things incorrectly, then say so. Some people in return felt Maegan was being a b***h by saying the things she did, and said so in private. A completely normal occurrence. It's simply people expressing their opinions. Nobody is innocent there, and that unrelated opinion never changed their commentary of the performances, including hers when she was competing.
Very different context.
Meagan has been vocal about judging, doping etc Yes. However, she did so on her own and not while she was hired by let's say, CBC as a commentator. She's been extremely professional as a commentator. There is a difference when you are employed by a network : you represent also your employer. What Simon did was wrong and the proof is in the pudding : he's not been rehired. Meagan still works because people will like or dislike her stances but se was not representing any network when she did so...
 
Very different context.
Meagan has been vocal about judging, doping etc Yes. However, she did so on her own and not while she was hired by let's say, CBC as a commentator. She's been extremely professional as a commentator. There is a difference when you are employed by a network : you represent also your employer. What Simon did was wrong and the proof is in the pudding : he's not been rehired. Meagan still works because people will like or dislike her stances but se was not representing any network when she did so...
This is what I don't understand. And I am BY NO MEANS defending Simon or his comments.

But, he did say them in an unguarded moment in a context in which he thought he was speaking privately. And you seem more upset by that than Alex screaming the same obscenity right in his sister's face.
 
This is what I don't understand. And I am BY NO MEANS defending Simon or his comments.

But, he did say them in an unguarded moment in a context in which he thought he was speaking privately. And you seem more upset by that than Alex screaming the same obscenity right in his sister's face.
You are putting words in my mouth. Simon was working for his network, this is where I draw the line. I don't approve of verbal abuse ever. However, for having dealt with verbally aggressive siblings, I know that there is nuance to be made. Not the same if an unrelated co-worker did the same to me.
 
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