Shoe Goo?

[Diana Delafield]

I'll take my boots to my shop on Monday for proper repair, but has anyone ever used something called Shoe Goo on leather skate boots? In practice this morning my partner managed to trip and put a deep gouge across the toe of my left Risport RF1, deep enough that my tights were cut and there's a scratch across my own big toe's knuckle. (I'll survive . He was more horrified than I was.) One of the other skaters gave me a tube of this stuff she got on Amazon and said she'd used it on street shoes that her big puppy had chewed, but just packed it in her skate bag "in case". Apparently you smear it on, press the cut together and bind with masking tape.

Will that hold for another session tomorrow, before I can get to my shop? And if it does, will my technician still be able to remove the goo and do a proper repair, or should I just not skate until I can get to him? My coach has never seen this Shoe Goo before, nor have I. The boot has to last until my custom Grafs arrive in, hopefully, January, and we have a couple of small shows to do before then. If it won't be secure enough, I'll get the technician to take the quad wheels off my Riedells that I use for roller skating and put the blades on them instead, temporarily, if that can be done safely.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I know what shoe goo is and I would not let it touch my skates.

Just wait until you can get to your tech.

Good luck.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I know what shoe goo is and I would not let it touch my skates.

Just wait until you can get to your tech.

Good luck.

I was doubtful about it. The expert advice is appreciated!

 

[Query]

Wow! That sounds scary. I hope you immediately washed your toes clean, and disinfected them. An infection could be awful.

I'm not an expert. But:

If I understand right, you are trying to glue the leather together again across a narrow cut. In a part of the toebox that might come under substantial tension.

I would first give Risport a call, and see if they have any ideas. Make sure they understand that the leather is cut, rather than separated from another surface. Risport is in Italy, so it is possible their tech support doesn't speak English. If you need English, and Risport in Italy doesn't speak it, you might try one of their USA distributors, like USA Skates.

I've only tried shoe goo on street shoes and tennis shoes. Regardless Shoe Goo requires about 48-72 hours to fully set and cure. You can't apply it today and use shoes fixed with it tomorrow. Not if you want it to last at all long. And you need to clamp the connection tight for that time so it adheres right. And it doesn't last forever. It might give shoes a few extra months to half a year, and work only once or twice, to reglue the midsole and outsole together again.

Shoe Goo is normally used to hold large areas together (like the entire midsole and outsole of a shoe), not to fix narrow cuts.

If the only problem for now is that your toes are getting cold, maybe you could cover the cut with foam tape and duct tape? And be glad you have already ordered new boots.

Some people who work on shoe repair use Barge Cement instead - but I think it too is for large surfaces, not cuts. And it, and its vapor, arequite toxic before it sets.

There are many fillers that can fill scratches and minor cuts in leather - but they aren't strong. They are just meant to fix the look. And maybe prevent upholstery foam from leaking out.

My suspicion is that Shoe Goo is not as strong or long lasting an adhesive as is sometimes used to hold together parts of skates. And that there may be no glue that can fix cuts that come under tension. Plus, if you apply it to your skates, and your skate tech wants to use a different glue, the tech would need to spend time removing the Shoe Goo first, and probably remove some of the surface it adheres to. I.E., that Ic3Rabbit is probably right, and it isn't the best way to repair skates, if there is indeed any practical way to fix a narrow cut on something that comes under as much tension as a skate toebox often does.

If you don't have a tech with the skills and courage, maybe you could apply an appropriate Epoxy/hardener combination - after roughing up both surfaces, because Epoxy mostly works by filling spaces, not by forming a chemical bond with the surfaces. But it's hard to guess how flexible an epoxy you should use. Perhaps a relatively flexible marine epoxy/hardener combination, like West System's most flexible combination?? But once again, it might take a long time to fully set and cure. And if it doesn't work, you will probably have made the boots impossible to repair, because Epoxy is very hard to remove from a surface. And it might only fill space, rather than hold the portions of the cut together, so maybe you won't be able to fully tighten your boots with your laces again.

So call Risport first. It makes sense that they might be the best experts about repairing their own boots.

If that doesn't work, maybe you will be lucky and there is a local skate tech who knows something about gluing boots back together across cuts.

BTW, I'm not saying that Shoe Goo is no good at all. Just that it wasn't meant to do what you want it to do. I have used it to extend shoe lifetime.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Wow! That sounds scary. I hope you immediately washed your toes clean, and disinfected them. An infection could be awful.

I'm not an expert. But:

If I understand right, you are trying to glue the leather together again across a narrow cut. In a part of the toebox that might come under substantial tension.

I would first give Risport a call, and see if they have any ideas. Make sure they understand that the leather is cut, rather than separated from another surface. Risport is in Italy, so it is possible their tech support doesn't speak English. If you need English, and Risport in Italy doesn't speak it, you might try one of their USA distributors, like USA Skates.

I've only tried shoe goo on street shoes and tennis shoes. Regardless Shoe Goo requires about 48-72 hours to fully set and cure. You can't apply it today and use shoes fixed with it tomorrow. Not if you want it to last at all long. And you need to clamp the connection tight for that time so it adheres right. And it doesn't last forever. It might give shoes a few extra months to half a year, and work only once or twice, to reglue the midsole and outsole together again.

Shoe Goo is normally used to hold large areas together (like the entire midsole and outsole of a shoe), not to fix narrow cuts.

If the only problem for now is that your toes are getting cold, maybe you could cover the cut with foam tape and duct tape? And be glad you have already ordered new boots.

Some people who work on shoe repair use Barge Cement instead - but I think it too is for large surfaces, not cuts. And it, and its vapor, arequite toxic before it sets.

There are many fillers that can fill scratches and minor cuts in leather - but they aren't strong. They are just meant to fix the look. And maybe prevent upholstery foam from leaking out.

My suspicion is that Shoe Goo is not as strong or long lasting an adhesive as is sometimes used to hold together parts of skates. And that there may be no glue that can fix cuts that come under tension. Plus, if you apply it to your skates, and your skate tech wants to use a different glue, the tech would need to spend time removing the Shoe Goo first, and probably remove some of the surface it adheres to. I.E., that Ic3Rabbit is probably right, and it isn't the best way to repair skates, if there is indeed any practical way to fix a narrow cut on something that comes under as much tension as a skate toebox often does.

If you don't have a tech with the skills and courage, maybe you could apply an appropriate Epoxy/hardener combination - after roughing up both surfaces, because Epoxy mostly works by filling spaces, not by forming a chemical bond with the surfaces. But it's hard to guess how flexible an epoxy you should use. Perhaps a relatively flexible marine epoxy/hardener combination, like West System's most flexible combination?? But once again, it might take a long time to fully set and cure. And if it doesn't work, you will probably have made the boots impossible to repair, because Epoxy is very hard to remove from a surface. And it might only fill space, rather than hold the portions of the cut together, so maybe you won't be able to fully tighten your boots with your laces again.

So call Risport first. It makes sense that they might be the best experts about repairing their own boots.

If that doesn't work, maybe you will be lucky and there is a local skate tech who knows something about gluing boots back together across cuts.

BTW, I'm not saying that Shoe Goo is no good at all. Just that it wasn't meant to do what you want it to do. I have used it to extend shoe lifetime.

No point repairing them. My skate shop has one of the best technicians around, who said the punctured toe wouldn't stand up to a stress like picking in for a 2T, or a 3T throw, with the temporary patch he might have done in an emergency. My pairs partner had driven me there, found the shop had my size in of the Risport RF1 boots and MK Phantom blades he'd wrecked when he tripped over my foot, and bought me a new pair on the spot as an apology . The shop will just toss the old ones with the skewered left boot. My Graf Edmonton Specials with the semi-custom fit will be arriving soon and then I'll have two new pairs.

(And I do speak some Italian, enough to get by on, if I actually had to phone or email Risport, where they're quite accustomed to doing business in English anyway .)

 

[Query]

(BTW, I oversimplified - tension isn't the only force the toebox takes. It takes forces in a lot of directions. There are good reasons why the toebox is one of the strongest and stiffest parts of a skate boot.)

It's wonderful that your partner is so generous.

 

[Casey]

I use Shoe Goo on shoes fairly often, as I have several children and children's shoes in particular tend to be poorly made. I've also repaired some of my own shoes on occasion, including the ones on my feet right now, and it works well for this job. It buys significantly more life out of otherwise trash shoes, for very little cost. But I don't think it's appropriate for use on skate boots at all.

I had soles separate on skating boots before, after a surprisingly short amount of time (less than a year). The blades would wobble on my skates. I took them to a reputable fitter who used some specific adhesive to repair them and returned them after a few days. Whatever they used dried strong and rigid, unlike Shoe Goo that retains more elasticity.

I'm not sure why I've never seen skate boots that have the soles attached with a superior goodyear welt - I guess this would add a little more weight to the boots. I appreciate when shoes have this.

 

[Casey]

Interesting - just looked into this curiosity, and especially in the early-to-mid 20th century, skating boots *did* use goodyear welts. But the industry shifted away from this toward cement/glue construction to reduce weight, and because the repairability advantage mattered less as boots wore out from skating stress before the soles did. But it would prevent some of the sole separation issues we now see...

 

[Query]

I'm not sure if they used a "Goodyear Welt", but I used my Klingbeil ("soft dance") boots, since the late 1990s or early 2000s, and have skated on them for thousands of hours. (Definitely over 10,000 hours.) They have a lot of stitches, and it isn't obvious that anything is glued. Below the insole, they have a layer of leather that is stitched to something below it, though not quite at the periphery - possibly to the outsole. But there is no stitching on the bottom or outside of the outsole, so the stiching didn't go that far.

Everything else that I can see on the boots appears to have been stitched together, not glued.

Somewhat after Klingbeil went out of business, I took my boots to a shop in Baltimore that makes custom riding boots, saddles, and other leather gear for race horse jockeys. The lady I spoke to looked at them, and said they were extremely well made. Unfortunately, she said they lacked the experience to rebuild them again - they are substantially different in construction from the boots the racing horse jockeys used.

They have substantially broken down. I'm a low level skater, and can make do. They didn't even break in for the first 6 years (I was a low level ice dancer, who never got past working on the first 6 pattern dances, plus ISI classes up to FS 1-2), despite a misfit, at which point I went out of my way to heat mold them repeatedly to soften them. Somewhat later they clearly started to break down, so I went to the Klingbeil factory store, and I think they partially rebuilt them. (But Don Klingbeil said it was too late to ask for properly fit boots (it turns out they guaranteed proper fit) - I would have had to buy new ones that were properly fit at the factory. I wish I had! Especially after Klingbeil closed down.) There isn't really any crease, because I filled the space a crease would form in, but they are much softer than when new. That mostly just makes them more comfortable, but I have to be careful in even my very low level jumps, because they don't provide much support at the ankles.

I am also careful when lacing. They just have holes in the leather for laces, not eyelets or grommets. I pull the laces straight through the holes, instead of pulling up, to reduce the wear on the holes.

That said, when people say their boots only last a few months, or maybe a year or two, I am horrified. If they even last 5-10 years, the cost of boots is a small fraction of the cost of private lessons and other costs of skating, if you are at all serious about it, but if you replace them every few months, the cost might become significant. Of course, that is my perspective as a very low level skater. I gather some top level skaters go through boots a lot more quickly.

Would they go through stitched boots more slowly? I don't know.

I think part of the issue is that many modern boots are substantially lighter than my Klingbeils. It's probably a trade-off. If you want the boots very light, you may have to accept that they aare less durable. And stitching takes a lot of time to do - as well as small hands (so you can sew things inside the boots), according to the lady at the shop for race horse jockeys. (I wonder if now the stiching could be automated...)

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who understood composite construction could repair a boot with a cut toebox. I used to own a whitewater kayak that was made from carbon and kevlar cloth, held together with epoxy resin. The maker probably used vacuum bagging to cut down the weight. It was surprisingly light, strong and reslient, and survived many rock bumps and scratches. Maybe one could use those materials to make a patch over the cut, after preparing the surfaces to accept the epoxy? But I think that would take a lot of time, skills and equipment. Not worth it to repair a cut skate boot. Anyway, the o.p.'s new boots make such repairs unnecessary.

How common are the o.p.'s type of injury? Would it be worth it to add cut-resistant materials to the toeboxes of pairs skaters? Of course, pairs skaters are a pretty small market...

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm not sure if they used a "Goodyear Welt", but I used my Klingbeil ("soft dance") boots, since the late 1990s or early 2000s, and have skated on them for thousands of hours. (Definitely over 10,000 hours.) They have a lot of stitches, and it isn't obvious that anything is glued. Below the insole, they have a layer of leather that is stitched to something below it, though not quite at the periphery - possibly to the outsole. But there is no stitching on the bottom or outside of the outsole, so the stiching didn't go that far.

Everything else that I can see on the boots appears to have been stitched together, not glued.

Somewhat after Klingbeil went out of business, I took my boots to a shop in Baltimore that makes custom riding boots, saddles, and other leather gear for race horse jockeys. The lady I spoke to looked at them, and said they were extremely well made. Unfortunately, she said they lacked the experience to rebuild them again - they are substantially different in construction from the boots the racing horse jockeys used.

They have substantially broken down. I'm a low level skater, and can make do. They didn't even break in for the first 6 years (I was a low level ice dancer, who never got past working on the first 6 pattern dances, plus ISI classes up to FS 1-2), despite a misfit, at which point I went out of my way to heat mold them repeatedly to soften them. Somewhat later they clearly started to break down, so I went to the Klingbeil factory store, and I think they partially rebuilt them. (But Don Klingbeil said it was too late to ask for properly fit boots (it turns out they guaranteed proper fit) - I would have had to buy new ones that were properly fit at the factory. I wish I had! Especially after Klingbeil closed down.) There isn't really any crease, because I filled the space a crease would form in, but they are much softer than when new. That mostly just makes them more comfortable, but I have to be careful in even my very low level jumps, because they don't provide much support at the ankles.

I am also careful when lacing. They just have holes in the leather for laces, not eyelets or grommets. I pull the laces straight through the holes, instead of pulling up, to reduce the wear on the holes.

That said, when people say their boots only last a few months, or maybe a year or two, I am horrified. If they even last 5-10 years, the cost of boots is a small fraction of the cost of private lessons and other costs of skating, if you are at all serious about it, but if you replace them every few months, the cost might become significant. Of course, that is my perspective as a very low level skater. I gather some top level skaters go through boots a lot more quickly.

Would they go through stitched boots more slowly? I don't know.

I think part of the issue is that many modern boots are substantially lighter than my Klingbeils. It's probably a trade-off. If you want the boots very light, you may have to accept that they aare less durable. And stitching takes a lot of time to do - as well as small hands (so you can sew things inside the boots), according to the lady at the shop for race horse jockeys. (I wonder if now the stiching could be automated...)

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who understood composite construction could repair a boot with a cut toebox. I used to own a whitewater kayak that was made from carbon and kevlar cloth, held together with epoxy resin. The maker probably used vacuum bagging to cut down the weight. It was surprisingly light, strong and reslient, and survived many rock bumps and scratches. Maybe one could use those materials to make a patch over the cut, after preparing the surfaces to accept the epoxy? But I think that would take a lot of time, skills and equipment. Not worth it to repair a cut skate boot. Anyway, the o.p.'s new boots make such repairs unnecessary.

How common are the o.p.'s type of injury? Would it be worth it to add cut-resistant materials to the toeboxes of pairs skaters? Of course, pairs skaters are a pretty small market...

No matter the level of skater, you should not be wearing your boots more than a few years. They break down, whether leather or synthetic mix. You are risking your ankle and other health and safety by wearing boots that should have been put out to pasture many, many years ago. And no, a skater is not going to get 10-15 years out of a boot (no matter how and what it's made from). They just aren't, so please stop trying to make it happen, when it's a known fact that it doesn't work that way with figure skating boots/blades.

 

[Minz]

No matter the level of skater, you should not be wearing your boots more than a few years. They break down, whether leather or synthetic mix. You are risking your ankle and other health and safety by wearing boots that should have been put out to pasture many, many years ago. And no, a skater is not going to get 10-15 years out of a boot (no matter how and what it's made from). They just aren't, so please stop trying to make it happen, when it's a known fact that it doesn't work that way with figure skating boots/blades.

I actually had a coach who had custom Harlicks for literally almost 20 years before they pretty much disintegrated and she was forced to get new ones. But those were basically being held together by duct tape and sheer will so I wouldn’t exactly recommend that if you’re doing anything beyond standing still on the floor in your skates.

(I say this as a funny tale; to anyone who is reading, please do not do this)

 

[Casey]

I'm not sure if they used a "Goodyear Welt", but I used my Klingbeil ("soft dance") boots, since the late 1990s or early 2000s, and have skated on them for thousands of hours. (Definitely over 10,000 hours.) They have a lot of stitches, and it isn't obvious that anything is glued. Below the insole, they have a layer of leather that is stitched to something below it, though not quite at the periphery - possibly to the outsole. But there is no stitching on the bottom or outside of the outsole, so the stiching didn't go that far.

Hi Query!

I also have Klingbeils, though mine were made for freestyle. My current pair was made in 2008, but I have only skated occasionally over the last dozen or so years so haven't worn them down too much yet. The paint is peeling off, but otherwise the leather and construction overall is still great.

The biggest issues I have with mine are that my toes have splayed out a little more with age, so I get some pain on the right pinky toe joint, and tend to lose feeling on the big toe side of my left foot, which never used to happen. Not enough to keep me from skating.

Interestingly, I asked Avanta about this subject, and this was their response: "Our skates are stitched, but not in the traditional Goodyear welt sense used in dress shoes. The stitching is internal and functional for skate construction and is not visible externally."

Somewhat after Klingbeil went out of business, I took my boots to a shop in Baltimore that makes custom riding boots, saddles, and other leather gear for race horse jockeys. The lady I spoke to looked at them, and said they were extremely well made. Unfortunately, she said they lacked the experience to rebuild them again - they are substantially different in construction from the boots the racing horse jockeys used.

I have thought about asking Avanta if they can work on Klingbeil boots. If anyone is able to, it would make sense that they should have the means for it. But I will wait on new boots and ensure they work out before putting my current skating pair at risk, so it will be good while before I can follow up on this.

I wish I had! Especially after Klingbeil closed down.) There isn't really any crease, because I filled the space a crease would form in, but they are much softer than when new. That mostly just makes them more comfortable, but I have to be careful in even my very low level jumps, because they don't provide much support at the ankles.

It's a tempting thought, but mere calendar aging has it's effects as well. Leather can last a very long time, especially if kept conditioned over the years, but the other materials used in the boot construction are likely not to hold up as well. The boots I have are no longer a perfect fit as my toe area is slightly wider than it used to be, the paint is peeling off of the leather, and the foam on the tongue has hardened and started cracking at the top - the cracking doesn't matter but the hardness of the foam does - I have to be get the lace tightness just right which is a bit of a pain - too tight and I have issues with the top of my foot, too loose and I can't skate right. Not a huge deal because I can get it right, but it usually means I spend more time relacing than I used to. Unfortunately, there's never going to be any more new Klingbeils, and new old stock just would not be the same.

...at which point I went out of my way to heat mold them repeatedly to soften them.

I'm surprised that attempting to "heat mold" did anything on these boots since they weren't made to support that and don't have a layer that can be intentionally softened and rehardened. I wonder what the technical explanation might be for how this managed to increase comfort!

I am also careful when lacing. They just have holes in the leather for laces, not eyelets or grommets. I pull the laces straight through the holes, instead of pulling up, to reduce the wear on the holes.

Interesting - I've never been careful about this, and have not had any problems as a result. I'm pretty hardcore when tightening from the ankle bend up, then after all the hooks are laced, and I tie the overhand knot before making a bow, I release tension and bend my ankle forward a little bit to release some of the tightness. I think leather is quite resilient to the stresses of lacing. Leather shoes, belts, etc. all commonly just have plain holes punched through the leather. I'm personally not a fan of metal eyelets as they promote lace slippage and occasionally fall out...

That said, when people say their boots only last a few months, or maybe a year or two, I am horrified. If they even last 5-10 years, the cost of boots is a small fraction of the cost of private lessons and other costs of skating, if you are at all serious about it, but if you replace them every few months, the cost might become significant. Of course, that is my perspective as a very low level skater. I gather some top level skaters go through boots a lot more quickly.

I just saw a video on YouTube yesterday which recommended replacing your skating boots at least once per season. Though this was intended as generic advice targeting early intermediate skaters, the video featured Edea boots, which I guess just don't last as long, nor do they break in in the same manner as leather boots at all. Once they fail, they really fail... I also watched these two videos a little while ago which definitely did not inspire confidence in Edea:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77v_ThD9w2Q
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--b5vOZT4PU

Glad they got their issues resolved, but sure doesn't sound like a fun time, especially if you're replacing boots that frequently. I figure if you're regularly doing triple+ jumps then yeah you're probably going to be going through boots a lot faster, but killing boots in a year at an early intermediate level seems crazy to me.

I think part of the issue is that many modern boots are substantially lighter than my Klingbeils. It's probably a trade-off. If you want the boots very light, you may have to accept that they aare less durable. And stitching takes a lot of time to do - as well as small hands (so you can sew things inside the boots), according to the lady at the shop for race horse jockeys. (I wonder if now the stiching could be automated...)

That's exactly it. Similar tradeoffs with backpacking gear. To each their own, but if I'm going on an extended backpacking trip, I prefer durability and predictability to weight savings, within reason. Handcrafting also relies on a relatively small pool of highly-skilled people, rather than an automated machine, which increases cost and variability. In an ideal world we'd all be wearing custom shoes from a local cobbler, and taking those shoes back to the cobbler any time they needed repairs, but that's just not the world we live in any more. You can still find them, but it's expensive.

How common are the o.p.'s type of injury? Would it be worth it to add cut-resistant materials to the toeboxes of pairs skaters? Of course, pairs skaters are a pretty small market...

Eh, we have blades on our skates and inevitably damage our boots over time. It seems nearly impossible to actually puncture all the way through leather on one's own skates short of some crazy bad collision into a wall, but I can see how in pairs that likelihood increases. Without seeing the skates, I feel like they'd still work well enough for skating in, as the damage was probably not extensive enough to compromise the structural integrity. They might be worth holding on to as a spare set, especially if they're comfortable, although that might prove to be a bad idea if the partner ever hits that same spot again! Sometimes it's nice to just get new things anyways...

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Eh, we have blades on our skates and inevitably damage our boots over time. It seems nearly impossible to actually puncture all the way through leather on one's own skates short of some crazy bad collision into a wall, but I can see how in pairs that likelihood increases. Without seeing the skates, I feel like they'd still work well enough for skating in, as the damage was probably not extensive enough to compromise the structural integrity. They might be worth holding on to as a spare set, especially if they're comfortable, although that might prove to be a bad idea if the partner ever hits that same spot again! Sometimes it's nice to just get new things anyways...

Fun story for you. Myself a few times, as well as other high level skaters I know (yes freestyle/singles skaters), have put their own picks through their own boots while having an issue landing a jump. Sometimes you just land wrong or freakily and boom...your opposite toepick is through the other boots toe. It can and has happened.

ETA: @Diana Delafield posted above that her esteemed skate tech told her not to skate on the boot after the puncture due to it not being strong enough to stand up to jumps and throws.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Fun story for you. Myself a few times, as well as other high level skaters I know (yes freestyle/singles skaters), have put their own picks through their own boots while having an issue landing a jump. Sometimes you just land wrong or freakily and boom...your opposite toepick is through the other boots toe. It can and has happened.

ETA: @Diana Delafield posted above that her esteemed skate tech told her not to skate on the boot after the puncture due to it not being strong enough to stand up to jumps and throws.

It's not uncommon for skaters learning triple or quad jumps (usually young male skaters with a lot of muscle in the legs) to spike themselves landing a big jump with feet still crossed, or crossing the feet too quickly and forcefully on takeoff. I've seen two accidents where boys put the tail of one blade right through the tongue of the other skate and spiked their own lower shin. It makes quite a mess.

 

[Casey]

It's not uncommon for skaters learning triple or quad jumps (usually young male skaters with a lot of muscle in the legs) to spike themselves landing a big jump with feet still crossed, or crossing the feet too quickly and forcefully on takeoff. I've seen two accidents where boys put the tail of one blade right through the tongue of the other skate and spiked their own lower shin. It makes quite a mess.

Ouch, that sounds incredibly painful!!