Skaters who skate to the same music: How do they compare?

[karne]

A question for the Joshua fans. What can he do to make his Schindlers list more successful? I've seen it a few times and other than the beautiful step sequence I wasn't really wowed by much else. Obviously people are moved by it for their own individual reasons and I admit I liked it too but felt it wasn't a highlight program amongst the men's field.

Landing all the jumps would be a good start. That program was still magical and beautiful even when he fell or muffed a jump last year, but even I found myself pulled out of it a little if he made a mistake. But that's life, he wasn't the only skater to struggle with certain jumps last season, and I'm sure he'll be fine this year.

I'm sure having a full gamut of international competition this year would help too. Hopefully he can stay well and injury-free.

Oh, and also fixing up the ending a little. He never got that quite right and it did bug me.

The funny thing is I watched Joshua on Karne's urging and discovered ,as she pointed out, how much his artistic qualities developed from when he was Yulia's age to now. Windmill arms and all. You would think his fans could be understanding of the maturation of skaters:confused2:

And I would be if certain people were not carrying on like she was already the complete most artistic skater in the world. And even in his windmill arm stage, you could see that Joshua could hear the music.


Meanwhile:

Max doing Gladiator could well unseat my previous favourite Gladiator, which was of course, Yagudin.

Speaking of Gladiator (and in the realm of this thread), did you know that both Alexei Yagudin and Alexander Abt used Gladiator in the same season? Now THAT is an awkward comparison.

 

[Meoima]

A complete skater and a complete package are 2 different statements.

 

[attyfan]

... Meanwhile:

...
Speaking of Gladiator (and in the realm of this thread), did you know that both Alexei Yagudin and Alexander Abt used Gladiator in the same season? Now THAT is an awkward comparison.

IIRC, Elvis Stojko also used Gladiator that season .... the men's event at 2001 Worlds was the "Battle of the Gladiators", while Irina Slutskaya and Sarah Hughes had "dueling Don Quixotes". I think there is an unofficial rule that skaters can use the same music only if it will fit into a nice catch-phrase.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

^lol

 

[ice coverage]

... I simply said Yulia's LP is more memorable and awesome. ...

Your opinion, to which you are entitled. But karne and others are entitled to their opinions as well.

... Its not like she ignores all skaters. Like a cat she just shows interest in some and not others it would seem. ....Honestly the same statement could be said of posters who pick and choose skaters to like. What is the difference. I agree though with the sentiment of lost opportunities when not welcoming in new people/skaters.

.... I know that she watch those whom she likes and knows.
It's not strange not to know all the competitors. You don't have time to watch all of them even if you want to..

One of the big differences is that most GS members at least recognize the names of highly ranked skaters who are not among their personal favorites.

It is not strange not to know ALL the competitors. But you and others apparently believe that it is possible or even likely that YL has never even heard of Josh Farris. If true, not knowing of Josh would be strange IMO.
He is not some random obscure skater who happens to be from a different country from YL. He earned himself a place on the Junior Worlds podium the same years that YL did. He won gold in 2013 and silver in 2012.
If a typical GS member attended a competition in person, I believe that s/he would have a general awareness of the names of the medalists (even if the medalists were not personal favorites).
(As an aside, I would add that Josh Farris makes the hearts of some young ladies of YL's age beat faster .)

Sorry to go off-topic as well but, just one thing to this-
You can see this from defferent perspectives I think... Friends among your opponents could support or distract.
Adelina Sotnikova stated in an interview, that she likes to comunicate with the others, even at the competition itself while :
" Yulia on the other hand ristricts contact stirctly - mother and coach. That's fine, her 'way' ( like her 'preferences' which she accepts ) ...

Agree that different perspectives are valid.
But will add that Virtue/Moir like to maintain a self-imposed "bubble" around themselves at competitions. Even so, I bet that they always knew (or learned) the names of those who won medals in other disciplines. V/M also formed friendships with skaters from any discipline and any country.
And BTW, Josh himself is on the shy (shy but sweet) side. His shyness has not prevented him from having close friendships with other skaters. And he has had a very friendly relationship with Jason Brown, who has been a major rival for years.
For many elite skaters, the camaraderie of fellow skaters seems to be one of the most rewarding aspects of the sport. And for me, observing their camaraderie (from a distance, of course) is one of the "perks" of paying attention to the skaters.
If it is true that YL is happy to be oblivious of peers like Josh, of course keeping herself at a distance and/or in the dark is her choice to make. But I would be sad for her sake that she would be missing out on what many skaters consider a great joy of the the sport.

... Sometimes popularity and quality combine, but all too often they don't. And popularity is one of the weakest defenses of the quality of a given thing or subject that I can think of.

... Again, de gustibus non est disputandum. ...

Thx, WA. As you said, YL's YT count does not prove that her program is superior.

 

[skatedreamer]

IIRC, Elvis Stojko also used Gladiator that season .... the men's event at 2001 Worlds was the "Battle of the Gladiators", while Irina Slutskaya and Sarah Hughes had "dueling Don Quixotes". I think there is an unofficial rule that skaters can use the same music only if it will fit into a nice catch-phrase.

"Dueling Don Quixotes"

Then there was the Witt/Thomas showdown at the 1988 Olympics. IIRC, it was hyped as the "Battle of the Carmens" but sadly, as we all know, it didn't exactly live up to its billing. :disapp:

Come to think of it, "Clash of the Carmens" has some alliterative appeal...

 

[unico]

I think all the discussion about whether YL knows/does not know Farris and the hypothetical reasoning for both sides is silly to even wonder about.

My stake on their two SL programs: Lipnitskaya had what Meoima refers to as a "complete package" with that program, the appearance, the costume, AND the right timing/opportunity to showcase that program off particularly at the Olympics. For me, is it the be-all-end-all consummate SL program? No. I can see both sides of the argument, I can see the appeal to the mass audiences and I can see why a lot of people think it's a bit "gimmicky". Personally, I'm not a fan (and I enjoy Farris' interpretation more), but that doesn't discredit what she was able to achieve with this program. I would like to see her interpret other types of music, because I do agree that her SP and LP were a bit same-same, which doesn't mean her SL wasn't well done, it's just too early to proclaim her as this great soulful interpretive artist.

Also, youtube views mean nothing when it comes to PERSONAL preference.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Joshua's was far more emotional and musical and didn't rely on gimmicks to sell it.

You keep forgetting anyone else's version is only more emotional and musical and did not have to rely on "gimmicks" in your opinion. I and many others think the opposite. You keep posting these comments with statements that act like they're absolute truths, when the fact that many other disagree with you means this statement is only true for you.

The first time I watched her SL program at Finlandia I didn't even remember that the music was from that movie and I loved the program. All the music was to me was a dramatic violin piece and I thought she was just in a red dress because that's the colour her and her mom decided to make for her FS. It wasn't until after she skated it at SC that I realized the concept she was going for. And I loved watching the program both times before I knew the source because it was hauntingly beautiful.

 

[satine]

Is there really any point in arguing about an opinion? Neither side will ever be 'right'..

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Is there really any point in arguing about an opinion? Neither side will ever be 'right'..

I guess, but I know I for one do not (at least I don't think I have) post arguments when the poster actually writes their opinion in the form of an opinion. It's when someone posts a comment like Karne did where they completely dismiss her and say something like it's an absolute truth that I just can't continue on reading. Do I like Radionova's skating? No, but I just don't watch it, and ignore any comments about how she's better than Yulia. I don't go around posting a statement that's insulting to her that will cause fans of hers to start writing arguments against my post about how it was unfair a biased because such a statement would be unfair.

I was just using Radionova as an example. I did like the exhibition she did at Sochi. I like watching certain programs of many different skaters but generally only like the skating of one particular singles skater at a time.

 

[cooper]

it's time for me to relax..

watching this drama to unfold this season and future seasons...

 

[aftertherain]

Not even going to touch this weird Joshua-Julia drama (other posters seem content with doing that).

For me, I think it'd be really tempting to apply some sort of deduction for overused music (like, "Oh, this again? Really?"), but it's nice to see so many different interpretations of those kinds of music.

It's really how a skater is able to interpret the music that makes it effective (or not). I don't like watching skaters who go "through the motions," and I don't necessarily think that it's because of whatever music they (or their choreographers) choose to skate to. For example, Virtue/Moir's "Carmen" was vastly different from that of Mirai Nagasu's--and I enjoyed watching both. Or with Scheherazade--I liked watching Yuna's, Mao's, Davis/White's, and even Carolina's (exhibition) renditions because they made sure to bring their own distinct flavors to the piece of music.

 

[Mrs. P]

For me, I think it'd be really tempting to apply some sort of deduction for overused music (like, "Oh, this again? Really?"), but it's nice to see so many different interpretations of those kinds of music.

It's really how a skater is able to interpret the music that makes it effective (or not). I don't like watching skaters who go "through the motions," and I don't necessarily think that it's because of whatever music they (or their choreographers) choose to skate to. For example, Virtue/Moir's "Carmen" was vastly different from that of Mirai Nagasu's--and I enjoyed watching both. Or with Scheherazade--I liked watching Yuna's, Mao's, Davis/White's, and even Carolina's (exhibition) renditions because they made sure to bring their own distinct flavors to the piece of music.

:thumbsup:

I also loved Midori Ito's Scheherazade as well!

 

[OS]

it's time for me to relax..

watching this drama to unfold this season and future seasons...

Hahaha.. you know a thread is is overheated when a Yuna fan has to step in to be the peace keeper

As for the thread title (should be retitled Battles of the Schindler's list, Russia vs USA), I personally don't mind skaters using well know pieces if they can bring something unique to it. It is how they do it matters more than what they choose.

However I personally think there should be a banned list for lazy contrived selection just to make things interesting, especially when it is about playing safe and are are usually chosen because of pre-exist popularity and artistic merits that has little to do with their skating..

ie/
No Russian should skate anything by Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky especially Swan lake.
No American should skate anything by Gershwin.
No Asian skater should go anywhere near Madam Butterfly, Miss Saigon, Memoir of a geisha, Last Emperor, Goodbye Mr Lawrence, any Kungfu movie soundtrack. I am tempted to add any Miyasaki soundtrack simply because the programs usually kind of ruin it for me. I have yet seen a program that does the music justice..
No repeated season programs are allowed.
No repeated genres are allowed in consecutive seasons.

There should be a list of top 10 most popular music used per each season, which can become a banned list for next season so nobody can use these music again.
Imagine a world where Lori Nichols is required to expand her music collections to beyond 3 CDs, now... that could a skating world I looking forward to.

 

[Olympia]

However I personally think there should be a banned list for lazy contrived selection just to make things interesting, especially when it is about playing safe and are are usually chosen because of pre-exist popularity and artistic merits that has little to do with their skating..

ie/
No Russian should skate anything by Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky especially Swan lake.
No American should skate anything by Gershwin.
No Asian skater should go anywhere near Madam Butterfly, Miss Saigon, Last Emperor, Goodbye Mr Lawrence, any Kungfu movie soundtrack. I am tempted to add any Miyasaki soundtrack simply because the programs usually kind of ruin it for me. I have yet seen a program that does the music justice..
No repeated season programs are allowed.
No repeated genres are allowed in consecutive seasons.


Imagine a world where Lori Nichols is required to expand her music collections to beyond 3 CDs, now... that could a skating world I looking forward to.

The great thing about composers like Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky is that they have created quite a few works that are unfamiliar or obscure that would be fresh and new to see in a skating program. For example, Rachmaninoff's second symphony. So I think that there's a lot more possibility in those composers' output.

As for Nichol, I am disappointed in her recent music choices, as you are (eek, Firebird again), but when she worked with Michelle, she had a splendid range of music and a real gift for unearthing unique pieces. Lyra Angelica is one example, and the Dvorak Dumky Trio plus a bit of Villa Lobos to start the program (adding up to Michelle's Black Swan program) is another. She was one of the best for unusual music. I don't know what happened, except to say that Michelle and she brought out the best in one another, and together they were better than either was separately. But her track record these days…I have to agree with you.

 

[NYscorp6]

My two cents: I believe many choreographers over use the same pieces of music because they feel a particular skater might be able to interpret decently the music because it is well known, sadly this isn't usually the case.
Another train of thought is they want to see an established skater use an iconic piece of music and knock it out of the park and make it a piece of their own legacy, I much prefer this approach although it is not fool proof by any means (Carolina's Scheherazade is a recent example).
My biggest pet peeve is when they use familiar music but use horrendous renditions and/or "Muzak" versions.
What I will say is I personally have grown to enjoy more classical music over the years partly because a favorite skater of mine and/or an elite figure skater has skated to various composers work, and interpreted the piece well, it leaves me wanting more, both of the composer and the skater.

 

[skatedreamer]

My biggest pet peeve is when they use familiar music but use horrendous renditions and/or "Muzak" versions.

Same here!

 

[TheCzar]

Why are we comparing Yulia and Joshua's Schindler's List programmes? It's irrelevant. Plus, one draws upon the emotion while the other channelled a character from the movie. Why are people so bothered by it? #SILLY #GETALIFE

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I loved Julia's SL but it seemed a bit rushed at times. I would love to see her bring this back maybe for an EX or something once shes a bit more mature.

I think the reason Julia's SL seems rushed is because the number of transitional moves she does to optimize her program for COP. It is very difficult to balance a slow program with the requirement that you are constantly doing something to earn points. In fact, if you skate a slow program like it should be skated, with long, held out moves, you will get hammered on PCS.

 

[YLFan]

Its just Yulia detractors trying to sell a narrative that Yulia has no artistry and has to rely on cheap emotion.