Skaters whose ballet training has paid off

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So much ballet talk bluh! Go see a ballet performance and see the difference especially in the feet.

 

[Bennett]

Caroline Zhang! She has a GREAT new exhibition program, which she debuted at TEB. The video is already up at YT.

I don't have the YouTube connection right now. But would look forward to seeing that. She seems to love skating to ballet music as many of her competitive programs have ballet music.

BTW, I do not think that her unusual flexibility is attributable to ballet training any more than to her genes, but I just wanted to comment that it was really "wow" to see the way she fell at SC. An amazing split in a nanosecond.

 

[all that]

So much ballet talk bluh! Go see a ballet performance and see the difference especially in the feet.

Of course there would be ballet talk in a thread entitled "skaters whose ballet training has paid off". If you don't like it, don't be in the thread.

And of course there would be a difference in the feet between skating and ballet. Primary difference: you're not on your feet when you skate. You're on a blade.

 

[dancing_tessa]

So much ballet talk bluh! Go see a ballet performance and see the difference especially in the feet.

Yeah, there is a world of difference between skating and a real ballet performance. But honestly, this thread is not entitled "who is the most ballerina-like figure skater" or something like that! Actually, ballet training can do a lot good for anybody who's neither a dancer nor a figure skater. Ballet gives you strength, balance, teaches you to connect your moves, helps to get better posture, leg line, toe point and a lot more... All those things have an impact on your movements even when you're not doing ballet at that exact moment, but that doesn't mean that every move you'll do looks just like ballet! But for all that I think the most important thing is still included in my signature...

 

[Mafke]

For what it's worth I don't even think of Ice Dance as 'real' dance.
That doesn't matter too much since I find an awful lot of 'real' dance (of the observer kind) to be kind of a bore (that's my fault not the fault of dance).

If I had to make a division it would be between skaters who are aware of their own bodies and those that aren't.
In the former category I'd divide between those who have some conscious knowledge of how to use their bodies in space to their best advantage like Kwan, Cohen, Browning and those whose knowledge is more unconscious (but definitely there) like Slutskaya, Weir,
In the non-aware camp I'd put skaters like Volchkova (maybe alltime champ) Verner, Goebel.
There's also a big group in the middle that have some idea but either their idea is mostly wrong (Plushenko, Joubert) or they can't carry it off as well as they'd like (Sebestyen).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Of course there would be ballet talk in a thread entitled "skaters whose ballet training has paid off". If you don't like it, don't be in the thread.

And of course there would be a difference in the feet between skating and ballet. Primary difference: you're not on your feet when you skate. You're on a blade.

fascinating.

If I had to choose a Dance compared to Ice Skating, I would choose Acrobatics - Not ballet.

 

[Bennett]

Of course there would be ballet talk in a thread entitled "skaters whose ballet training has paid off". If you don't like it, don't be in the thread.

I second that:yes: How simple it is

Yeah, there is a world of difference between skating and a real ballet performance. But honestly, this thread is not entitled "who is the most ballerina-like figure skater" or something like that! Actually, ballet training can do a lot good for anybody who's neither a dancer nor a figure skater. Ballet gives you strength, balance, teaches you to connect your moves, helps to get better posture, leg line, toe point and a lot more... All those things have an impact on your movements even when you're not doing ballet at that exact moment, but that doesn't mean that every move you'll do looks just like ballet! But for all that I think the most important thing is still included in my signature...

Thank you for your wonderful post. I totally enjoyed reading it.

I have learned ballet, FS, and salsa in addition to some other dances. Ballet helped me with FS, salsa, and other Western dances more than FS and salsa helped me with the other Western dances.

Among all the dance teachers that I have had, my ballet teachers have been most strict about bodily positions. They have most systematically taught me how to be aware of and use my body. Such an awareness has helped me in a lot of things.

Ballet has also taught me the basic positions that are often used in many Western dances. The posture, toe point, leg line, arm positions that I constantly learn and practice in ballet were also helpful in improving these in FS and salsa. As you said, even when I am not using the exact positions of ballet, the awareness of the body and the basics such as toe point, leg turn-out, stretch etc that I learned in ballet helped me with FS and salsa.

I learned jazz a little bit, too, and they systematically taught me how to use the hip, which helped me with salsa.

I think that systematically learning the use of body helps be more aware of the bodily positions and movements, which helps more efficient, sophisticated moves.

What I really love about ballet is the systematic methodology in these. My FS coaches also taught me the posture, leg line, and arm positions etc, but they were not as systematic, knowledgeable, or detailed about the use of body and bodily positions as my ballet teachers have been (they were of course very knowledgable, systematic, and detailed about how to use the blades and excute elements; but here I am talking about the bodily positions and various movements that help the performing aspects of FS, and in that aspect, they were not too helpful).

If I had to make a division it would be between skaters who are aware of their own bodies and those that aren't.
In the former category I'd divide between those who have some conscious knowledge of how to use their bodies in space to their best advantage like Kwan, Cohen, Browning and those whose knowledge is more unconscious (but definitely there) like Slutskaya, Weir,
In the non-aware camp I'd put skaters like Volchkova (maybe alltime champ) Verner, Goebel.
There's also a big group in the middle that have some idea but either their idea is mostly wrong (Plushenko, Joubert) or they can't carry it off as well as they'd like (Sebestyen).

Very interesting. I am not sure how I could make the conscious/unconscious grouping because I cannot see what's going on in their head. But I find this list very interesting.

Perhaps Yukina Ota, for example, would fall into the consciously-aware group? She seems very conscious abot how to make her moves most effectively express the music on the right timing. Her moves have really a lot of nuances that have various colors. I do not think that you could do these without consciously thinking.

I also could think of skaters who "have some idea but either their idea is mostly wrong" or "they can't carry it off as well as they'd like" even though I would not mention them here.

But I am not sure about "those whose knowledge is more unconscious (but definitely there)." Could they be some skaters who were trained in ballet or in other dances as a kid so that they could dance to the music on the beat with beautiful lines without needing to think much? In that case, their bodies have the knowledge, even though their minds may not be consciously aware of.

Or are you referring to the skaters who were not trained or learned dancing systematically but somehow naturally know how to dance well?

 

[dancingqueen]

Maybe only Yukina Ota knows for sure, but when she is at her best, it looks to me she is more unconsciously moving, instead of consciously thinking during her performances. She looks truly feeling with music, very imaginative, expresses well the right timing with music, looks truly connected with the music. It’s like she becomes the music.

I wonder, is it possible to truly deeply feel with music while thinking consciously ? :scratch:
At least for me , I can’t.

I agree about Johnny Weir. I think when he is at his magical best, he belongs more with the unconscious group, while performing and especially in Exhibitions. ( however, during the competitions, I think the pressure sometimes causes him to be more of a consciously thinking performer )

To me, Johnny moves artistically like branches of a tree blowing in the wind. His movements are so fluid, like flowing water. I would also put Stephane Lambiel in the unconscious group. He also looks to be a completely feeling person and performer.

I really liked his quote about what’s the secret to his spins, and he said something like “ oh, I just feel , I don’t know maybe it comes from the air. Or maybe from the Swiss chocolate, you have to eat Swiss chocolate to do spins like I do. “ LOL.

 

[Bennett]

Maybe only Yukina Ota knows for sure, but when she is at her best, it looks to me she is more unconsciously moving, instead of consciously thinking during her performances. She looks truly feeling with music, very imaginative, expresses well the right timing with music, looks truly connected with the music. It’s like she becomes the music.

I wonder, is it possible to truly deeply feel with music while thinking consciously ? :scratch:
At least for me , I can’t.

So true. She becomes the music!!

I think that what I meant by thinking is not necessarily thinking during the performance. But her expressions are so much detailed and always so right on the timing that I imagine that she perhaps uses a lot of time carefully listening to the music, interpreting the music, and dancing to the music. I used to study the piano before. We use a lot of time carefully reading the scores, interpreting each phrase to best express that music, and discussing with the teacher. The level of the detailedness in her choreos and expressions makes me imagine that such elaborate preparation might be involved in her performance. But as you said, I also think that she would deeply feel the music to become that music when she dances to it.
These are just my thoughts and I do not know what's going on in her head, either In any case, I think that she is an enormously talented artist on the ice.

To me, Johnny moves artistically like branches of a tree blowing in the wind. His movements are so fluid, like flowing water.

What a beautiful way to put it!

I don’t know maybe it comes from the air. Or maybe from the Swiss chocolate, you have to eat Swiss chocolate to do spins like I do. “ LOL.

I love this quote, too!

 

[merrybari]

I've noticed it this year in Evan's presentation - a more finished line developing to add to the power he always has had will make him an even stronger over-all performer than he already is.

I feel sure it'll be more and more a part of his style as the season moves forward and he becomes more and more comfortable with it. I think it's one of the best things he got from TT.

 

[stevlin]

Ballet

Ballet has helped Jeffrey Buttle become an amazing skater with such beautiful lines, edges. He is so graceful and artistic that I could watch him skate for ever. I will miss him so much in the upcoming Canadians and Worlds.

 

[passion]

Ballet has helped Jeffrey Buttle become an amazing skater with such beautiful lines, edges. He is so graceful and artistic that I could watch him skate for ever. I will miss him so much in the upcoming Canadians and Worlds.

I feel exactly these things with Patrick Chan. Canadians are so fortunate to have these two very talented skaters. It's like they are sharing their gifts to the world.

 

[jennylovskt]

The first people come in mind were Kurt Browning and Jeffrey Buttle.

 

[Buttercup]

Ballet has helped Jeffrey Buttle become an amazing skater with such beautiful lines, edges. He is so graceful and artistic that I could watch him skate for ever. I will miss him so much in the upcoming Canadians and Worlds.

I'm not sure if doing ballet has much impact on a skater's edges. It should help with lines, extension and posture.

 

[AwesomeIce]

I'm not sure if doing ballet has much impact on a skater's edges. It should help with lines, extension and posture.

Yeah, ballet really doesn't have anything to do with edges.

Can't think of any other skaters on this list who have visibly benefitted from taking ballet, so what about skaters who gained nothing from ballet? Rachael Flatt claims to take ballet lessons, but I see nothing in her poor posture and complete lack of extention and turnout that would even HINT at her having taken lessons. She looks very awkward. But, ballet is really just another tool, I guess, it isn't a magic wand.

 

[Bennett]

Yeah, ballet really doesn't have anything to do with edges.

Can't think of any other skaters on this list who have visibly benefitted from taking ballet, so what about skaters who gained nothing from ballet? Rachael Flatt claims to take ballet lessons, but I see nothing in her poor posture and complete lack of extention and turnout that would even HINT at her having taken lessons. She looks very awkward. But, ballet is really just another tool, I guess, it isn't a magic wand.

I agree. I think that it depends on how much, how long, and how seriously you have been trained.

Besides, some ppl naturally have good posture and turnout, and others do not. I know a girl who naturally has a complete turnout. She can comfortably enjoy reading on the froggy stretch. But some ppl have only a little turnout after years of ballet training.
I also think that the posture and extention should improve if you are really paying attention regardless of ballet training.
But I think it helps because ballet focuses more on these than FS.

 

[Buttercup]

ballet is really just another tool, I guess, it isn't a magic wand.

ITA. I did years of ballet and modern dance and it didn't make me graceful, or flexible, or "artistic". It did improve my posture somewhat, though that may be credited to other things. I think with skaters, ballet allows you, maybe, to improve on what is already there. If someone is naturally graceful in the way he or she moves, ballet may help express it even more beautifully, by helping with posture, line and extension. But it is most definitely not a magic wand.

 

[babyoscar]

Tessa Virtue

various photos of Tessa in her pointe shoes
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/archive/2008/OCTOBER/INDEX.PHP
http://relish.myraklarman.com/ice-dancing-champs

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Help

When posters talk about ballet training, I am not sure what they mean. Is it that the figure skater takes ballet lessons 5-6 days a week? and can they actually get into a ballet company? Maybe if ballet students would take figure skating lessons their dancing may pay off. Would that work?

What is so magical about taking a ballet class once a week when I see top skaters unable to point their toe. To me what skaters need is Acrobatic Dancing lessons 5-6 das a week to get that flexible spiral.

 

[dancing_tessa]

Yeah, ballet really doesn't have anything to do with edges.

Can't think of any other skaters on this list who have visibly benefitted from taking ballet, so what about skaters who gained nothing from ballet? Rachael Flatt claims to take ballet lessons, but I see nothing in her poor posture and complete lack of extention and turnout that would even HINT at her having taken lessons. She looks very awkward. But, ballet is really just another tool, I guess, it isn't a magic wand.

I think you can very well see in the movement of her arms that she has taken ballet lessons. Obviously she's not a ballet dancer but to be that you have to train really intensively...
Ballet isn't a magic wand, it needs training, taking 2 or 3 ballet lessons a week will not make you a ballet dancer!