Adult skater boot selection

[Toss]

Hello everyone! I'm a 35-year-old man who started skating in November of 2021. I'm 150lbs and 5' 10" (68kg and 178cm) and semi athletic but not in great shape right now for both flexibility and strength. I'm wearing Jackson Mystiques sold to me by our hockey-focused pro shop.

I completed Learn to Skate at the beginning of 2023 and have started private coaching recently (5 sessions so far). In Learn to Skate, I also started learning some jumps (waltz, half flip, salchow), but am only comfortable with the waltz and toe loop, which my coach helped me with. Unfortunately, I've been put on a jump training pause because I was told that my boots and blades aren't intended for jumping. She thought I was wearing Freestyles.

After reading a lot online, it looks like not only are my boots not intended for jumping, adult skaters usually need to go up a level in stiffness compared to the traditional recommendation. Information there is a bit inconsistent though. Using Jackson boots as an example, some discussions say that anything in the 2000 series is enough for where I am, while others say that even a Premiere may be too soft. I think I haven't seen anyone outside of Reddit recommend below a Freestyle/Debut for an adult jumping, though. Is there a good rule of thumb for weight and heigh and how they affect how much "up-booting" needs to be done? I assume the men's Supreme is overshooting by a lot, but there isn't really anything between that and the Premiere (partially because it looks like Jackson has nuked the majority of their men's boot offerings in the past few years).

I saw Golden Horse skates and Edges and Dreams shop mentioned a few times, and it looks like either has a similar process for virtual fittings, with measurements plus foot tracings and pictures. Is the result from a virtual fitting going to be significantly worse than in person? My coach recommended a fitter, but haven't gotten a response from him after over a week. He posts availability on Facebook every week for that week so I asked in my text if he can schedule out a little further given I would need to plan an overnight trip (I'm 5-6 hours away), so maybe that put him off? I was more to the point in my call, but didn't get a call or text back to that either. Is this a sort of thing where you need an actual introduction? How necessary is a fitter versus carefully following manufacturer instructions for measuring? It sounds like some manufacturers are very responsive to questions as well, blurring the line of self-virtual-physical fitting in my mind more.

If someone could straighten me out, that would be greatly appreciated. I feel like the more I think and read about this, the more I don't understand anything!

 

[Lucie]

As you have found out you should have never been fitted in the Mystiques, they are far too soft for you for even early levels of learn to skate.

The Premiere would probably be fine at your level, it is not going to be too soft - Jackson rates them for up to doubles for skaters over 58kg and you’re not massively over that. It also depends on your strength, knee bend etc. Debut or Freestyle may not be out of the question - they are both suitable for your weight up to singles and the Debut is a stiff boot for its rating - especially if the premiere feels too stiff when you try it on - you still need to be able to bend your knees. The Supreme is going to be way too stiff. It’s going to be a huge adjustment going straight from the stiffness of a mystique at 15 to the premiere at 65, if you don’t have a very strong knee bend you might be better off with the Debut at this stage.

That is if Jackson is truly the right fit for you - you need a proper fitting. An in person fitting is better, really you need to get the boots on your feet and see how they feel, but a virtual fitting is better than none and can be good - it’s all about the skill and experience of the fitter. Most fitters work in pro shops and you just make an appointment with the shop for a fitting. There’s more to it than just measurements, the internal 3D shape of the boot and the shape of your foot need to be considered. If you haven’t had a proper fitting before I wouldn’t just use a manufacturers guide to measuring, things can turn out very different IRL even if you measure your feet accurately which is very difficult. If you can post where you are in the world I’m sure someone on here will be able to recommend a fitter near you.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello everyone! I'm a 35-year-old man who started skating in November of 2021. I'm 150lbs and 5' 10" (68kg and 178cm) and semi athletic but not in great shape right now for both flexibility and strength. I'm wearing Jackson Mystiques sold to me by our hockey-focused pro shop.

I completed Learn to Skate at the beginning of 2023 and have started private coaching recently (5 sessions so far). In Learn to Skate, I also started learning some jumps (waltz, half flip, salchow), but am only comfortable with the waltz and toe loop, which my coach helped me with. Unfortunately, I've been put on a jump training pause because I was told that my boots and blades aren't intended for jumping. She thought I was wearing Freestyles.

After reading a lot online, it looks like not only are my boots not intended for jumping, adult skaters usually need to go up a level in stiffness compared to the traditional recommendation. Information there is a bit inconsistent though. Using Jackson boots as an example, some discussions say that anything in the 2000 series is enough for where I am, while others say that even a Premiere may be too soft. I think I haven't seen anyone outside of Reddit recommend below a Freestyle/Debut for an adult jumping, though. Is there a good rule of thumb for weight and heigh and how they affect how much "up-booting" needs to be done? I assume the men's Supreme is overshooting by a lot, but there isn't really anything between that and the Premiere (partially because it looks like Jackson has nuked the majority of their men's boot offerings in the past few years).

I saw Golden Horse skates and Edges and Dreams shop mentioned a few times, and it looks like either has a similar process for virtual fittings, with measurements plus foot tracings and pictures. Is the result from a virtual fitting going to be significantly worse than in person? My coach recommended a fitter, but haven't gotten a response from him after over a week. He posts availability on Facebook every week for that week so I asked in my text if he can schedule out a little further given I would need to plan an overnight trip (I'm 5-6 hours away), so maybe that put him off? I was more to the point in my call, but didn't get a call or text back to that either. Is this a sort of thing where you need an actual introduction? How necessary is a fitter versus carefully following manufacturer instructions for measuring? It sounds like some manufacturers are very responsive to questions as well, blurring the line of self-virtual-physical fitting in my mind more.

If someone could straighten me out, that would be greatly appreciated. I feel like the more I think and read about this, the more I don't understand anything!

Hello and welcome! I hope I can straighten some of this out for you.

First of all, yes you are not in proper boots for your height/weight. And Men's supreme would be way overbooting.
An in person fitting is very important and doing virtual is ok if that is all you have. You need to be seen in person so the fitter can properly measure and trace your foot (not something done by oneself easily and accurately). You may not even have a foot that works with Jackson. There are so many other brands that could be perfect for your feet.

If you let us know the area you are in we could suggest a fitter if the one your coach gave isn't working out. Also, if you'd like I could offer to suggest boot brands/styles that would be proper for your stats. You would have to mention what type of foot you have (Ex: Greek, Egyptian, etc).

 

[Toss]

Thanks for the information! It looks like it would be wise to make the effort to get an in-person fitting.

I'm in Albuquerque, NM. The fitter I contacted is Bruce, and I believe he's also the closest unless there's anyone good in Flagstaff, AZ. I actually traveled a lot the past month for various reasons and tried to get to a fitter in Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Chicago. The travel to the east coast was during 4th of July so scheduling didn't work out with holiday hours and family plans, and Chicago was earlier, right after I found out about the need for new skates. Sadly, aside from a wedding in September in San Jose, CA, I don't have any other travel plans I can bundle a fitting with for the rest of the year.

That said, John at Rainbo did fit me in last second when I was in Chicago! Sadly, he didn't have time to order anything in for me to try. He said I'm at least a half size too large with 8.5s. The closest he had in any brand was a size 7 in Jackson, which he removed the insole from and I was barely able to squeeze in but my toes were curled to fit length wise. He said it would be wise to call weeks ahead to any appointment with any fitter to verify that they have boots in my size or can order them in.

My foot is about 263mm long and 250mm around the ball / 108mm across knuckle to knuckle, so wide. Shape is Greek, with the second toe barely longer than the first. My toes are long and ball area is wide, so I often wear out shoes in the area behind where they put the ball. I'm slightly pronated with average arches but a pronounced big toe arch knuckle which has caused fitting difficulties with shoes before.

My toes except for the big toe are skinny top to bottom, so I've padded the area above my toes and under my arch with 2 layers of thick moleskin for the past year or so. Before, I could curl up my toes so my last knuckle was vertical or further, and did so whenever doing anything more complex than crossovers. Even with these changes, my heel often lifts off the boot so my insoles have little to no wear on the heel. My shins get tired from keeping the pick off the ice, but I assume this is at least half being in oversized skates (though I do wear shoes without any heel most of the time).

Should I filter fitters based on the brands they carry? Part of my hesitation continuing to try to contact Bruce is that my coach said he doesn't charge for fitting if the boots are ordered through him, but I am worried that this might have him putting me in a "close enough" fit or having to pay him plus another fitter, not to mention travel costs and time off work...

Sorry if this is too much and I should save it for a fitter. Speaking of, how much preliminary information is normal to share before an appointment versus waiting until I'm sitting there in person?

Thanks again, both comments so far have definitely put my mind at ease and made me feel less unsure and confused!

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I think you really need a fitter. I can't help with this as I'm in the UK, but @Ic3Rabbit will know someone.

These days fitters have to charge for their time, labour and expertise. Back in the days with no internet, everybody bought their boots from the fitter/pro shop where they went to be fitted/try them; there was no other option. Nowadays, people use fitters and pro shops as "showrooms", just as they do other bricks and mortar stores, before looking on the net to buy the recommended item at a discount. A good fitter is worth their weight in gold and will save you time, money and pain/potentially injury. Get them to fit you with the right equipment and tweak it to work for you and pay the standard price for it. They'll usually adjust things for free once you've worn them on the ice. If you get fitted and take up their time and expertise but elect not to buy from them, then you should expect to pay a fee for that time and expertise, just like you would any other professional. If you buy elsewhere, eg online, then you'll need to take the risk that what you've bought fits you perfectly and doesn't need heat molding, punching out, stretching, custom insoles, plus paying to have the blades mounted and sharpened the first time. You're highly likely to pay a lot more in the end. Plus, having a good relationship with your fitter is great when you need help in a hurry.

I have a 5-6 hour trip to see my fitter and have to stay overnight. I'm a highly experienced skater (40+ years and used to teach) but I won't risk buying online. I tried that during lockdown and I don't want to add up what it cost me in boots that just didn't work for me.

 

[tstop4me]

Should I filter fitters based on the brands they carry? Part of my hesitation continuing to try to contact Bruce is that my coach said he doesn't charge for fitting if the boots are ordered through him, but I am worried that this might have him putting me in a "close enough" fit or having to pay him plus another fitter, not to mention travel costs and time off work...

Sorry if this is too much and I should save it for a fitter. Speaking of, how much preliminary information is normal to share before an appointment versus waiting until I'm sitting there in person?

(1) Different brands (and different lines within brands) conform to different foot geometries better than others. At this point, you don't know which brands conform to your feet best. So you are not in a position to filter by brands. You want a fitter who deals with as wide a range of brands as possible.

(2) With the usual caveat that there may be exceptions lurking, in the US at least, it is common practice for fitters not to charge a fitting fee if you order the boots from them (of course verify in advance); so that's hardly unique to Bruce.

(3) I'm an adult male skater myself. We fall into the smallest market segment for figure skates. When you reach the separate boot and blade level (as opposed to kits with the blades premounted to boots), it's highly unlikely to find a fitter who will have any stock for you to try on. They will need to be ordered. Check very carefully on the fitter's policy. Some (especially the ones that do a lot of business) will not charge for ordering in boots for you to try on and don't buy. Others will charge a return fee for each boot that is ordered and not bought. You're in a bind, if you have to travel far. Boots typically take a week or two to get in; and good fitters, as you have found, are often booked at least a week out. Right now, supply chains are still iffy, and some brands and models might take even longer. Since you appear to have problematic feet (as do I), you would want to have a detailed discussion with the fitter in advance of the in-person visit. But note, adjustments to blade mounts and boots typically will require at least one more return visit (several more, depending on how problematic your feet are). So take that into account.

 

[Lucie]

There are good fitters in California who have been mentioned on this forum before, if you have time to travel to them while at that wedding. I’m not familiar with them myself but I’m sure someone with west coast knowledge on here would be able to give you details, or if you trawl this forum you’ll find recommendations. If John at Rainbo thought Jackson’s are good for your feet then you could stay with them.
Most fitters do waive the fitting fee if you go ahead and buy from them.
You mention your feet are wide across the ball of the foot and Jackson are some of the widest fitting across the ball, although you may need a wider width than standard W - as by your measurements you are coming up a an E width on Jackson’s charts - or the ball of the boot stretching and punching out to accommodate your large bunion joint. Jackson’s come with split width (heel one width narrower than ball, W width is C heel D ball) as standard.
It’s difficult to tell if your heel lifting issue is too to boots that are too big (likely) or you need a narrower heel, although from your description it sounds like your boots are too long so I would try a correctly fitting skate length wise first and if you still have problems you might need a rapid custom to alter width at heel or ball or both. Unfortunately some rink or hockey shops will just size up on length to get the required width and this is a big problem for skates.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello everyone! I'm a 35-year-old man who started skating in November of 2021. I'm 150lbs and 5' 10" (68kg and 178cm) and semi athletic but not in great shape right now for both flexibility and strength. I'm wearing Jackson Mystiques sold to me by our hockey-focused pro shop.

I completed Learn to Skate at the beginning of 2023 and have started private coaching recently (5 sessions so far). In Learn to Skate, I also started learning some jumps (waltz, half flip, salchow), but am only comfortable with the waltz and toe loop, which my coach helped me with. Unfortunately, I've been put on a jump training pause because I was told that my boots and blades aren't intended for jumping. She thought I was wearing Freestyles.

After reading a lot online, it looks like not only are my boots not intended for jumping, adult skaters usually need to go up a level in stiffness compared to the traditional recommendation. Information there is a bit inconsistent though. Using Jackson boots as an example, some discussions say that anything in the 2000 series is enough for where I am, while others say that even a Premiere may be too soft. I think I haven't seen anyone outside of Reddit recommend below a Freestyle/Debut for an adult jumping, though. Is there a good rule of thumb for weight and heigh and how they affect how much "up-booting" needs to be done? I assume the men's Supreme is overshooting by a lot, but there isn't really anything between that and the Premiere (partially because it looks like Jackson has nuked the majority of their men's boot offerings in the past few years).

I saw Golden Horse skates and Edges and Dreams shop mentioned a few times, and it looks like either has a similar process for virtual fittings, with measurements plus foot tracings and pictures. Is the result from a virtual fitting going to be significantly worse than in person? My coach recommended a fitter, but haven't gotten a response from him after over a week. He posts availability on Facebook every week for that week so I asked in my text if he can schedule out a little further given I would need to plan an overnight trip (I'm 5-6 hours away), so maybe that put him off? I was more to the point in my call, but didn't get a call or text back to that either. Is this a sort of thing where you need an actual introduction? How necessary is a fitter versus carefully following manufacturer instructions for measuring? It sounds like some manufacturers are very responsive to questions as well, blurring the line of self-virtual-physical fitting in my mind more.

If someone could straighten me out, that would be greatly appreciated. I feel like the more I think and read about this, the more I don't understand anything!

You're overthinking this. Send me an inbox message and I can speak on fitters in California/Arizona area.

 

[IceIceIce]

Hello,

I've had great fittings from Kelly at Discount Skatewear in Phoenix. For my partner and I, he's the best fitter we have dealt with so far. He has a lot of experience and cares a lot.

I skate in Jacksons and am not too far off your weight. I would not recommend the Premier at your weight and level. I think you would probably want to try on their Debut or the next lower in stiffness.

I would not read too much into how your current boot fits. Being too large and having to put moleskin, means they are just not fitting at all and lift at the heel could easily be due to this. Also for Jackson, I am not sure that they use their regular lasts (Elite) on those rec level boots, so their normal line may fit quite differently.

As a side note, I prefer to say that you want to be able to bend your ankles rather than your knees. You can usually manage to bend your knees if you put yourself in a poor posture, but this is not what you want. You want to be able to sink down and simultaneously bend your hips, knees, and ankles, while maintaining an erect torso and head position. Another indication is that if you can't do a legal sit spin (with you quad at horizontal or lower) or a shoot-the-duck, then it could be that you are limited by your boot's ankle flex. Strength, of course, can be an issue there.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Note is don't go too soft in boot and being your height and weight, I would not go under Premiere, unless you are in another boot brand and then we can all talk about that. Again, good luck!

 

[Toss]

Thank you again for the additional information, everyone! Every comment has been super helpful.