Skating Pariahs

[berthes ghost]

Are there any skaters whom you love, but are shocked when, if they are mentioned at all, are mentioned with derrission on the net?

I'm not talking about people like MK, who for every bash has about 3 or 4 love tomes written in her praise. I mean skaters who are barely spoken of, and when they are, it's mostly negative.

Here are my picks:

1. Evgenia Shishkova/Vadim Naumov
I thought that they were fab in 94, but since I didn't tape it, I can't remember specifics. In 96, I enjoyed their DonQ LP and, like Dick Button, were surprised to see them off the podium. I saw them live at a local event, and were blown away by their speed, power, coverage, etc...Why are they so unpopular?

2. Marina Eltsova/Andrei Bushkov
I liked their 96 LP, although I'm not really sure how it was so much better than S&N's. I also liked it again the next year, and were a little surprised to see them behind W&S. I ate-up the whole teary eyed "our federation hates us" fluff. I was very disapointed at their 98 LP though, just gastly. Still, I don't see why people diss they as puppets of the great Russin tradition.

3. Jenni Meno/Todd Sand
Thier 94 LP was nice, but I loved their 95 LP to Turandot. Every time I hear this music, I think of them. I also like their Rach LP of 97. I&D just never seemed to jell as a couple IMHO and I don't get the "he who lands the most triples must win" mentality that so many skating fans have. I thought that they were the last great US couple, and am surprised to see how often they are slagged off as "sappy".

 

[Piel]

I like Meno and Sand. I haven't really enjoyed their son John Stevens on AI though . I remember Kyoko whining through one interview that she and Jason were not a romantic couple and they thought that might be why they were not as popular as Todd and Jenny. Then Jason married Yuka and Kyoko gets to skate with Johnny Z. so I guess everyone is happy now. Todd and Jenny get accused of being bland or sappy but IMO no one was more boring than Jason and Kyoko. They both are so much better skating with their present partners. I like a little romance in my pairs. Yea I know that Johnny and Kyoko aren't a couple. Johnny is so cute though that I would enjoy him skating with anyone.

 

[lulu]

I love S&N-they were a great pair team. Perhaps, and I'm saying this is a defense, just a reason, perhaps they did not have that special "something" to grab people to their skating, be it either a way of connecting to the audience or a background story.

 

[Dee4707]

I have not heard nice things about Kyoko Ina.

Dee

 

[sk8m8]

Piel, I have to repectfully have to disagree (it is an opinion posting board, after all ) about Dungeon and Ino. I thought they were as talented as Meno & Sand, though they were undermarked ever so slightly.

Since were talking about love and neglect or abuse, I love I & D's line and speed and thought they were marvelous. They barely missed the podium at the Nagano games with a 4th place (one place higher than I&Z (another favorite pair) at SLC. No one even bothered to mention it or comment about how close they came to medaling.

Once again, the ever lovely and talented Jill Trenery place forth at the Calgary games and was barely an afterthought when the "Battle of the Carmens", Liz Maney's Silver performance and Midori Ito's amazing jumps were lauded. I don't even remember if they showed her skate or not.

Just a few thoughts

 

[Tonichelle]

Scott Hamilton gets a lot of flack online... granted he was really unprofessional at SLC during the pairs... but he later apologised(and I doubt NBC had anything to do with it)

however the negativity now transfers into his skating...

no one ever complains about Dorothy being past her prime... but Scott gets that sort of crap all the time... (I complained about Dorothy one time online and boy did I get slammed! )

 

[Piel]

sk8m8,

I'm not saying M&S are more talented, I just like them better is all. I have never skated so my favorites are based purely on my opinions, LOL. Heck I don't enjoy Torville and Dean...which I think may actually be illegal in the FS world .

Of course I am 100% sure my opinions of Michelle are correct.

Piel

 

[Longhornliz]

I'm surprised by the amount of flack Jenny Kirk gets on this board... I think that we are in an unusual situation in skating where we currently have 2 power houses and several respectable skaters just below that tier... the two or even three power houses phenomenon has occured before... but I dont think there has been such a talented group right behind them.

I think that if MK and sasha werent around, we would be eating jenny up.

 

[Piel]

I like Jenny. Here in the U.S. I think we have become so spoiled having Michelle, Tara, Sarah, and Sasha that if someone doesn't medal by their second year at National or Worlds they don't get the respect they deserve. Jenny has given performances that could have medaled at some worlds. I hope she has a great season next year. After Michelle she is my favorite American lady.

 

[Bijoux]

I see Jenny being undermarked, not appreciated. Her SP was at least recognized as best program at Nationals. Her 17th place finnish at worlds was way off. She was barely discussed. I am still behind her 100%. In fact, I hope she makes the podiumin 2006. There always seems to be a debate here over Sasha and Michelle. I like both. But Jenny has a beautiful 3/3 combo she doesn't seem to get credit for in the technical mark. I think the rest of the world judges would like to see Sasha get medals, and I think Sasha is a favorite going into Turino.

I see several other non-american skaters going onto that podium, too. It's just not big enough for all the incredibly talented ladies on the world scene. For Jenny I wish better luck, recognition and I do enjoy her style and personality very much. Her competition jitters are made worse by the lack of respect the judges show her.

Michael Weiss gets slammed on every board, but he has some good qualities and keeps coming back. With Todd having moved on and with Timmy injured with "boot problems as well, we have no one else. I think he has made costume faux pas and looks a bit arrogant, but he gets virtually no respect from fans anymore nor the commentators.

 

[Gipson]

no one ever complains about Dorothy being past her prime... but Scott gets that sort of crap all the time... (I complained about Dorothy one time online and boy did I get slammed! )

I think it's because it's impressive that Dorothy has kept up her technical ability so well after so many years. Not sure why Scott is criticized though. Maybe it's because his skating understandably hasn't been the same since dealing with cancer and people miss the way he used to skate.

 

[clairecloutier]

Getting back to some pairs mentioned earlier in this thread, I agree that Shiskova & Naumov were very talented. I liked them quite a bit. They were my favorite pair team in the years after Lillehammer and before Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze and Sale/Pelletier. I think what hurt their popularity is that they never seemed to have that one great, defining performance that often makes a career. They had a lot of really good performances, but no great ones. Also, I remember that Evgenia suffered from nerves and would tend to skate rather stiffly in competition, like Maria Butyrskaya. But I do miss them and have wondered what happened to them.

I was also a fan of Ina & Dungjen. I thought they were a well-matched pair, more so than Ina & Zimmerman. They were both strong and athletic, with a clean, simple style. In fact, they had a lot of the same qualities that the Chinese pairs do now. But they didn't work hard enough and gave up too soon. I tend to blame Kyoko Ina for this, because it was the same story with her and Zimmerman. Once again, there was a lot of potential in that pair, but it was as if they couldn't be bothered to really work at it 100 percent. And then they quit just as they were finally starting to get good.

As for Meno & Sand, I was a big fan early on, but ultimately grew disappointed in their skating. They had so many chances to break through and win at Worlds--the competition really wasn't that strong in the 1994-1998 era. But they just couldn't do it. I feel like they hit a plateau around 1995 or so and just didn't really challenge themselves after that. And to me they've continued to play it safe as pros, skating what feels like the same program year after year in SOI.

 

[Ptichka]

I would add Petrova & Tikhonov and Totmianina & Marinin to the list.

Also in his elibile days Alexei Urmanov.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Getting back to some pairs mentioned earlier in this thread, I agree that Shiskova & Naumov were very talented... But I do miss them and have wondered what happened to them.

Naumov is Orscher and Lucash's coach. I read somewhere that Naumov asks Shishkova to consult when he needs the perspective of the woman in the pair.

 

[aliaschick]

I find that Butyrskaya, Robinson and Sandhu also seem to get slammed a lot on boards and stuff, especially Butyrskaya. I love her skating but a lot of people really don't seem to.

 

[soogar]

sk8m8- I like Jill Trenary's skating however she had a lackluster skate in Calgary which is why she was never mentioned.

We recently had the Midori lovefest here on this forum, but it kind of surprises me how Kristi was preferred to Midori. I personally would take Midori anyday.

As for Jenny, she got slammed b/c she really had horrible skates at Worlds and she rightfully deserved her 17th place finish. She skated as bad as Nicole did during the 1998 Games.

 

[lulu]

If were talking about skating pariahs what about Trixie Schuba?

 

[BronzeisGolden]

I never cared for Shiskova & Naumov. They executed the elements cleanly and efficiently and were a strong team, but they just never made me feel anything. I guess that is purely a personal opinion, but I never felt they generated much excitement (except for the time that Naumov's pants fell to his ankles while they were skating!).

I also strongly agree that Meno & Sand seemed to have fallen into a rut after 1995. They remained one of my favorite teams throughout their career, but I believe they could have been so much more. Still though, they were always very lyrical and never failed to move me in that respect. "Turandot" was beautiful!


As for Maria Butirskaya....I still don't get it! The stiff knees and anxious expression made most of her performances difficult for me to enjoy. However, her 99 Worlds LP and her 00 Worlds SP were exceptions. She peeked out of her nervous box for a few minutes and was impressively confident and elegant! I was so disappointed for her in SLC. I really wanted her to let everything go and medal...with Michelle and Irina. Oh well! At least she had that great experience in Helsinki...she truly deserved that World title!

As for Jenny, I have no arguments about her 17th place finish at Worlds...but comparing what she did to Nicole Bobek's uberdisaster in Nagano doesn't fly. Nicole completely fell apart (landing 1 triple?), Jenny only did so partially.

 

[thvudragon]

Scott Hamilton gets a lot of flack online... granted he was really unprofessional at SLC during the pairs... but he later apologised(and I doubt NBC had anything to do with it)

however the negativity now transfers into his skating...

There's a reason why Hamill dislikes Hamilton. He is unprofessional and has shown in the past that his "opinions" are all about his own personal gain. That, and he insulted one of Hamill's husbands. "Bring back figures!" "Retire the eligable skaters so I can make more money!"

As for Jenny, I don't really see what it is that people like about her skating. She is a very sloppy skater in terms of many elements like her spins, like the fact that her "flying" camel is hardly in the air at all. Her jumps are small, and her 3t/3t is hardly beautifully and is NEVER clean. She has impure technique in that her toepick stays on the ice for 3/4 of a turn on the take-off. She does not have high technical content at all compared to her top competitors. Robinson has better jump technique than her. She really needs to clean up her skating IMO to be anywhere near competative to MK and Sasha. Those two have their problems too, but I won't get into that.

TV

 

[Ogre Mage]

Roz Sumners. First off Roz gets DESERVEDLY slammed for the completely out-of-line comments she makes. But I am surprised how many people slam her skating. Her commentary and skating are two entirely different things. True she's over the hill now, but in her time ('82-'84) she was a great skater -- lovely use of her arms, beautiful posture, fine sense of musicality, great basics and a gorgeous 2axel, sometimes as an Ina Bauer/2axel combination (no stroking inbetween) -- really great combination of artistry and technical merit. I don't think she became 3 time National Champ and World Champ by sucking as bad as some people seem to think she did in her heyday.