Skating Ratings Shock Espn (Hirsh article)

[katherine2001]

Joe, the last time I paid to go to a movie was 7 or 8 years ago(my nephew has taken me a couple of times to matinees for my birthday and it's been a couple of years since I last went to a movie) or bought a CD, I didn't have to buy plane tickets or drive hundreds of miles to get there or pay for hotels and meals. Also, a person could attend several movies or buy a few CD's for the cost of one ticket to a skating event.

 

[Linny]

They watch TV too

You know, little girls are a heck of a force, marketing wise. Disney certainly thinks so, having just come out with a figure skating movie. ESPN just didn't figure out how to reach enough viewers this time around.
Linny

 

[hockeyfan228]

Little girls and ESPN? Not exactly their core audience. I third the suggestion of broadcasting on ABC Family.

 

[Mathman]

This is so true, Katherine. My family, friends and I would love to go to more sporting events, ballgames, you name it but it's just cost-prohibitive.

And not only that, but if you wait for one of the major ISU-sanctioned competitions, such as Skate America, then you have travel, several days hotel and restaurant bills, all-event tickets -- it could easily add up to a couple of thousand dollars.

 

[mzheng]

You know, little girls are a heck of a force, marketing wise. Disney certainly thinks so, having just come out with a figure skating movie. ESPN just didn't figure out how to reach enough viewers this time around.
Linny

For the new generation of fans, yes, the little girls are a heck of a force. But still the figures in sports should be stay long enough to grab them. The little girls attentions were easy to grab when a hot OGM was crowned, and yet they are also easy to lost the interest when there is no constant figure out there to promote the sport. That's why I think Peggy, Dorthy, Christina, etc. even after they turnned pro helped promote the sports.

On the otherside the ppl attend the alive show and having the ability to spend their own money usually are those grownups long time fans. In a recent COI show, we were hit the ticket office on site, I've seen most parents with kids they bought the $35 tickets, while those mid aged couples or grownups they usually bought the best available seat at $65 section.

Here is small tips, buy the tickets on site at the day of show at last minutes, usually there were some very good seats released by some club or what. We spend the whole week try to get good seats on line with no result. Then we hit the ticket office, got the best seats at $65 level. Center ice row 6th. Best money worthwise.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe, the last time I paid to go to a movie was 7 or 8 years ago(my nephew has taken me a couple of times to matinees for my birthday and it's been a couple of years since I last went to a movie) or bought a CD, I didn't have to buy plane tickets or drive hundreds of miles to get there or pay for hotels and meals. Also, a person could attend several movies or buy a few CD's for the cost of one ticket to a skating event.

Katherine - On rereading my post,I realized I was being offensive although that wasn't what I was getting at. My sincere apology. My own upbringing was far from privileged. It's just that we live in a capitalistic country where money and business make the rules of play.

If figure skating does not make money for the American networks, there is nothing we can do. It's not their job to look for viewers. If the viewers are there, you can believe the networks will pick up on figure skating. If the viewers are not there, you can bet there will be more Nascar, and Golf which do have millions of viewers.

If the SLC was responsible for the downsizing due to lack of interest in the general population, then we can blame Speedy for not resolving that matter. But other than that, he really isn't causing the decline, but he did contribute to it.

Again. Sorry for not thinking properly.

Joe

 

[33leprechaun]

Little girls and ESPN? Not exactly their core audience. I third the suggestion of broadcasting on ABC Family.

I'll fourth it. Great suggestion.

 

[Mathman]

To me, another point to consider about the Grand Prix events, is that they spread the action out over four or five days. Is the casual sports fan that much into it that they are going to watch two hours of compulsory dance on Monday which counts 20% of something or other that will be decided on Friday?

In every other sport that has a "regular season" followed by a championship game, each game stands alone and takes maybe a couple of hours. (Sort of like the cheesefest competitions, LOL! )

With the format of the Grand Prix, we are asking a lot of television viewers. And it is asking the impossible of live audiences. A Grand Prix event is supposed to be an international competition, but in reality only people who live in the city where it is held can go. And even then, how many people can take the week off work, or will want to spend the money for all event tickets for every day of the week.

MM

 

[Rgirl]

When ESPN says that less than 20% of the people who watched Worlds last year watched it this year, nothing will convince me that 80% of figure skating fans who watch Worlds in the US just disappeared, got bored, or fed up with the judging in one year, especially the year before the Winter Olympics.

Down 80% from 1994 I'll believe, but in one year? IMO, the fans aren't leaving figure skating, they just didn't watch ESPN. And why would you?
--All the broadcasts are taped delayed far longer than is necessary, like by days.
--Most of the broadcasts were from 9pm to 12am on weeknights, which cuts out anybody who goes to school or has a job, unless they go to school or work at just the right hours to make 9pm to midnight their "peak viewing hours."
--The coverage, as has oft been stated, sucked.
--There were many more alternatives to watching ESPN as it happened, which is how Nielsen tracks its ratings.

So I have a question: Did the ratings for Worlds drop in Canada? I realize figure skating is generally more popular in Canada than it is in the US, but if it is figure skating that is in its death throes, then shouldn't we see drops in viewership of Worlds everywhere and not just the US?

Assuming viewship of Worlds remained stable in other countries then figure skating ain't the problem in the US; it's the way it's covered. Also, Disney ain't stupid. Why would Disney release a figure skating movie in a year when I'm sure all their demographics would have shown an 80% decline in interest in FS?

The idea that figure skating is dead just doesn't add up.

Many people have made many great points about why it's sheer idiocy to try to market figure skating as if it were women's tennis or golf. Other countries don't seem to have a problem with a sport that combines athleticism and "artsy-fartsy" stuff. Cable channels such as Ovation and the Independent Film Channel are doing quite well, so it's not "fear of art." I think Mathman hit the nail when he noted that it's the combination that throws networks executives. Whether cable or not, they're all network executives.

I'm throwing the gauntlet down at the marketing. Even Coca-Cola almost blew a 60-year sure thing when it's marketers did some taste tests and found that people preferred the sweeter taste of Pepsi and thus decided to change the classic Coca-Cola formula to "New Coke." Even after Coke went back to "the real thing" taste tests show people liked New Coke better, but what Coca-Cola the company learned was that people weren't just drinking the drink. They were buying the everything they associated with Coke.

One thing that may be negatively affecting figure skating these days is the lack of negativity. No knee bashings. No Cold War rivalries between the Soviet Union and the US. It's only been 11 years since former Soviet countries have competed under their own flags in figure skating. Add that to holding Worlds during March Madness and changing it to the witching hour on ESPN and I'm not surprised you'd get an 80% decline in viewers. But that is not the equivalent of an 80% loss or any loss at all of figure skating fans.

And Speedy and the ISU certainly don't help.

I offer these suggestions and support many of those previously made:
--Change the dates for Worlds so they don't directly conflict with the NCAA basketball tournament.
--Take the CBC coverage and broadcast it on the new substitute for ESPN-2, ESPN-Family or ESPN-Glamour. The ABC Family channel is a possibility, but they already tried FS on Lifetime and it tanked. Figure skating may have music and dresses but it's still perceived as a sport. I think associateing FS with family could help it, but could also hurt it. I mean, the sport was rolling in dough when it had violence (Tonya Harding), sex (Tonya, and the ice dancing extra-marital affairs), and substance abuse (Oksana Baiul's problems with alcohol). Of course, first they hooked us with the orphan story, so it was a lot more interesting to see her knocked off that pedestal.

And I have to be somewhere 10 minutes ago so, gosh darn, no giant Rgirl post today. But seriously, those are just some ideas.

Rgirl

 

[Frau Muller]

Here's another link (try this one):


Well, at least they are going to make efforts to try to revive skating.

So what are they going to do? Ask Nick & Jessica to do the commentating? Hang up 10 Smuckers Skycams to move across the ice simultanously? Ask rapper "50 Cent" to do the musical intros?

I shudder to think of what steps the ABC/ESPN Family will take to try to pump up viewership!!!

How about simply giving us uninterrupted skating with minimal talk & fluff? Like someone above said, I'd pay for that in an instant! Make it a pay-per-view event BUT with no commercials. ...and of the quality & depth of EUROSPORT.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

rGirl - Nice to have you back again and we are in agreement at least with something has to be done to get more TV viewers interested in figure skating.
If it were a simple answer I think NBC and CBS would have taken it up. They are business people too. I don't think there is one answer. I could even defend Speedy on some points, but I wont.


How about simply giving us uninterrupted skating with minimal talk & fluff? Like someone above said, I'd pay for that in an instant! Make it a pay-per-view event BUT with no commercials. ...and of the quality & depth of EUROSPORT

We would all love that but we are diehard fans. What we need is to get casual fans back into the fold. What the networks would like is how to make more money without spending too much. Not easy for any of us.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Joe made the interesting point a while back that the majority of figure skating fans fall into the "groupie" category. That is, they are fanatical in support of their favorite skater, rather than having a genuine interest in the sport as a whole.

I think we we need to do more to encourage this.

The University of Michigan football stadium holds 104,000 people. It has sold out 160 consecutive times, going back to 1975. Of those 104,000 people paying $75 a pop to see a college football game, about 103,999 are screaming idiots with their faces painted maize and blue. Nobody goes to a football game just because they appreciate the skill and finesse of the athletes. Nobody goes just in the hope of seeing a fine contest with both sides making good plays.

We make fun of Kwaniacs and Sashaholics. But if there were enough of them, we could sell out skating competitions, too. (I'm doing my part, LOL.)

Mathman

 

[pipsqueak]

sex, drug abuse, violence

RE: Sex, drug abuse, violence: Are we talking about hockey or baseball? Sorry, couldn't resist. I think there still is sex, drug abuse, and violence in figure skating....there always was, and always will be because people don't change through the years. We aren't hearing some of it lately, is my guess...just like we're not hearing/seeing very good coverage of the GOOD stuff, either.

I agree w/whomever said if figure skating interest is down 80% in the US, then it should be down in relative correspondence in other countries, too. It probably isn't. I can't find out with regularity WHEN an event will be on televison. And, when I do find it, it's so far removed from the event in time that it's passe by then. Everyone already knows the outcome. Neither do I care for most of the commentators if I DO find an event covered. I've watched very little this season.

The other thing that bothers me is the escalation of "high-pay-off-tricks" in both singles and pairs, to the point where most of the field is injured and withdrawn from most competitions anyway, except their own Nationals or Europeans, Worlds, etc. , not to mention that the competitive life of most of these athletes is cut short. I also groan at the commentators who whine and snarl and moan when a competitor does not "make" the quad-jump/throw/twist/handstand, whatever...and the rest of the program is deemed "trash" after that...or the non-stop chatter about the skater's inabilities to do the quad-bazookalooka extends right through the program...no matter what he/she/they have done already or do through the rest of the program.

I taught in a school with a 2-hour-block schedule, except that one day a week every class met for one hour. On that day, I could not get the kids to "do anything" because they claimed that an hour was just not enough to do anything with...because they were so used to having 2-hour classes the rest of the week. Well, I think skating has gone down that lane: unless every program has a quad something in it, it's not worthy and "nothing can be done with it", including watching it. This is why I think women's skating has been a strong ticket most of the time...while it did progress into triples, the pressure was not as unrelenting as it became for men's skating and the developing crush now on pairs. People felt "free" to watch it and enjoy it without expectation of anything beyond the beauty of the sport...it it happened, then "OK" but it was always "OK" even when "it" didn't happen. Now, I believe like my ex-students, the comparisons between expectations and reality promote disappointment and sometimes downright disdain.

I also am not happy about a system that will not accomodate, for instance, a bi-national couple in pairs or ice-dancing without them both coming from the same country. What's the big deal? This is a different world than your grandma's outdoor Olympic event on a frozen pond. People make couples from many different nations these days as regularly as they did in their own arenas years past. A bi-national couple should be able to go to an Olympic, each representing their own respective countries. If they win something as a team, they both get Gold Medals anyway, why can't one be tallied up for one country and the other for the partner's country? How hard would it be to make rules governing numbers or totals of participants instead of numbers of teams? Year after year there's always some high drama about citizenship changes in time for an Olympic. I hardly see the need for this these days. You can represent your country no matter where you live, and even if you are paired with someone else. I can see it happening with other events, too. I may be an idealist, but wouldn't this sort of thing be a reflection of the spirit of the modern Olympics being realized---a world growing smaller and in which the world's citizens have become more tolerant of each other?

Well, there's probably lots more to gripe about, but I'll mercifully sign off for new on this.

 

[Linny]

citzenship

Do all 4 members of the 4-man bob sled teams have to have citizenship in the country they represent?
Linny

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

citizenship

It's funny...Drobiazko and Vanagas got to compete in Albertville long before she became a Lithuanian citizen because they wrote to the ISU and they allowed an exception. Why can't some skaters do that? If they've done it once...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's funny...Drobiazko and Vanagas got to compete in Albertville long before she became a Lithuanian citizen because they wrote to the ISU and they allowed an exception. Why can't some skaters do that? If they've done it once...

hmmm. Are both of them non Lithuanian by birth?

Joe

 

[attyfan]

It's funny...Drobiazko and Vanagas got to compete in Albertville long before she became a Lithuanian citizen because they wrote to the ISU and they allowed an exception. Why can't some skaters do that? If they've done it once...

Also, did Lithuania get to send its own team to Albertville? I thought that all countries that were part of the former Soviet Union formed one team, under a name similar to "Confederacy of Independent States". For example, the CIC men's team included Petrenko (from what is now Ukraine) and Urmanov (what is now Russia).

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

hmmm. Are both of them non Lithuanian by birth?

Joe

Rita Drobiazko is Russian. Povilas Vanagas is Lithuanian by birth.

Also, did Lithuania get to send its own team to Albertville? I thought that all countries that were part of the former Soviet Union formed one team, under a name similar to "Confederacy of Independent States". For example, the CIC men's team included Petrenko (from what is now Ukraine) and Urmanov (what is now Russia).

Yes. Lithuania was the first country to break away from the Soviet Union, and was not part of the CIS. The CIS team in dance included-

Klimova/Ponomarenko
Usova/Zhulin
Pasha/Platov

 

[Rgirl]

rGirl - Nice to have you back again and we are in agreement at least with something has to be done to get more TV viewers interested in figure skating.
If it were a simple answer I think NBC and CBS would have taken it up. They are business people too. I don't think there is one answer. I could even defend Speedy on some points, but I wont.....

Joe

Thanks for the welcome, Joe. OT, but thanks also for your accounts from Worlds.

ITA that getting more TV viewers interested in FS is not a simple task. When I think back on past sports, arts, entertainment booms, which were all followed by busts, it's relatively easy to see what brought on the boom, but once things have gone bust, it's like trying to lasso the culture and make it do what you want to "create" a boom.

And so true that ABC and NBC would have figured out a way to make money from figure skating if they could. As I said before, they tried broadcasting on Lifetime (bomb). ABC tried a combo of ABC and ESPN with ABC broadcasting aspects of Worlds on Saturday afternoon and evening (ladies final) and/or Sunday afternoon (exhibitions). Personally, I was sorry to see that go. I think a lot of casual fans enjoyed taking over the TV for a weekend of World Champ skating. Still, I don't think keeping it would have made that much difference.

I think quick changes in cultural love affairs with a certain sports or whatever change more quickly than they used to because there are more options. We may just have to wait it out until the next group of factors leading to a rise in the overall popularity of figure skating arranges itself to make that happen. And hope nobody does something to really muck it up.

BTW, "I could even defend Speedy on some points, but I wont....."

I could defend Speedy on some points too, but I - just - can't - make - myself - DO IT!

Rgirl

PS I still want to get the Eurosport coverage for the Olympics and the CBC for '06 Worlds. Now THAT I'd pay PPV prices for. ESPN can bite me.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

PS I still want to get the Eurosport coverage for the Olympics and the CBC for '06 Worlds. Now THAT I'd pay PPV prices for. ESPN can bite me.

Ohhh, Wouldn't we all. I wonder who we can contact to make that happen?

Joe