Stress Fractures in Figure Skating

[sisinka]

...
It's a bit different with singles skaters, especially as the age of skaters starting skating and jumping gets younger. It's possible that coaches OR skaters tried to "keep" their physiques as close to how the skaters were when they're landing their jumps easily, and avoid strength training so that they don't build any muscles that can interfere with the jumps. And then when they finally did it, they're already carrying injuries which might also get impacted by the muscle training.

Very good mention.

What I find absolutely fascinating and shocking is the lack of stenght training and the apparent lack of knowledge coaches have about developing muscles and flexibility slowly described in a lot of these citations.

I am not really persuaded that lack of knowledge is the biggest problem. I am rethinking the possibility of having the knowledge, but undervaluing its importance.

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More times I read that skaters or coach mentioned that higher weight means higher load on joints and bigger possibility of an injury.

"Higher" weight was mentioned, NOT weight ABOVE skaters "ideal weight" (based on body type, muscle mass, water contain etc.). Which unfortunately may lead to idea of kilograms in prepubertal age like @rabidline mentioned.

Landings in triple jumps are around 5 to 10G - force (from Alexei Mishin's book). Coaches may think that for example: skater with 40 kilograms - it means 400 kilograms per maximum during landing. 50 kilograms - 500 kilograms per maximum during landing. The results: weight of 40 kilograms is "more safe" and injury protective.

I believe this is the biggest argument used by coaches to support low weight.

This teory is not right in my opinion.

Unfortunately there is probably lack of science studies proving that bigger muscle mass and right centering of joints are more protective than lower weight. Not to mention that in figure skating it is not easy to prove this as we do have a lot of smaller and bigger traumatic injuries caused by falls.

Even some studies are supporting the lower weight idea into some degree:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

- "...It was found that adding weights of three, four, and five pounds 43 significantly effected vertical jump performance..."

BUT...
What is problematic with this study? It uses the weight of an athletes and adds additional weight. The mean height was 176.2 cm, the mean weight was 71.58 kg, the mean percentage of body fat was 22.60% in the study, athletes got from 1 to 5 pounds of additional weight. While our skaters are very often forced to reduce their weight below norm and body fat to lower norm or below norm which leads to multiple health troubles. But it also leads to situation of muscle weakness with less power and dynamics which is essential for skating jumps. Being forced to reduce muscle mass leads to worse protection of joints. Malnutrition also leads to worse concentration which is important for both jumping and performance.
(More people points from videos that some girls are visibly depressed and crying in Eteri Tutberidze's group. But is it really the strictness on the practise causing this? Or mental difficulties during puberty? Or side effect of malnutrition?)

As to skating jumps there are another parameters as well.
Speed of rotation is determined by skater's technique of upper arms' movement, but it is also influenced with "body curves" and width of shoulders and hips. It naturally creates much more difficulties for mature body to rotate fast comparing to prepubertal body, it is not just weight issue. Right jumping technique is influencing height and the overall quality of the jump a lot.

Not having science studies we can try indirect ways of proving that too low weight is not injury protective.

Looking at list of public stress fractures we may very well exclude the possibility that only athletes with higher weight (based on more muscular body) sustain stress fracture. More ladies on the list were in prepubertal age with extremely tiny bodies...and it didn't protect them.

We know that malnutrition leads to more injuries and lower bone density. There are studies proving this.

 

[sisinka]

Like @DancingCactus and @Karoltyna mentioned, strength training is very important, I agree. Despite the fact that bigger muscle mass leads to higher weight.

Better strengthening protects the body much better in comparison with prepubertal weight caused by malnutrition.

In my opinion combination of ideal strengthening, right jumping and skating technique, right nutrition AND appropriate training load, ideal weight, right regeneration and rehabilitation are the key moments for reducing the risk of injuries.

 

[Karoltyna]

Like @DancingCactus and @Karoltyna mentioned, strength training is very important, I agree. Despite the fact that bigger muscle mass leads to higher weight.

Better strengthening protects the body much better in comparison with prepubertal weight caused by malnutrition.

In my opinion combination of ideal strengthening, right jumping and skating technique, right nutrition AND appropriate training load, ideal weight, right regeneration and rehabilitation are the key moments for reducing the risk of injuries.

TBH you don't need to built much muscle mass to achieve strength. The muscle mass gets bigger only to certain moment, where it stops and you work on strength without increasing it. Look at swimmers - they don't have huge muscles, they are rather lean. And long distance runners look as if they didn't have muscles at all.

 

[dorispulaski]

Is there any new research on this subject?

 

[sisinka]

On Sunday I had the oportunity to meet unique person. One of the best in his work and I will say that for me he is the best coach to teach jumping technique.
His name is Mr. Rafael Arutyunian.

Personally he is very kind and despite his deep knowledge and popularity in figure skating - he is modest person.

We spoke a little bit. He showed concern about figure skaters and their health. He claims that RIGHT TECHNIQUE is important to keep athletes healthy. He agreed that number of jumps is important as well. He tells that doctors need to speak and tell athletes how to behave to avoid injuries. What to do after the practise. (I understood this part in a way that he says that athletes does not have enough information about off ice regime which would help them to compensate training session's loads.)

 

[Mathman]

He [coach Rafael Arutyunian] tells that doctors need to speak and tell athletes how to behave to avoid injuries. What to do after the practise. (I understood this part in a way that he says that athletes does not have enough information about off ice regime which would help them to compensate training session's loads.)

I think that this is a big problem, especially in America where for the most part training is left up to the individual athlete and his or her parents -- and is very expensive. Although many skating facilities have weight and exercise facilities, it is unreasonable to expect your technical skating coach also to undertake the off-ice regimen or to be an expert in strength and endurance training or to have the expertise of a professional dietician. (Long-time Golden Skate poster RGirl was a professional dancer who wrote an influential book on "Diet for Dancers" back in the day.)

In fact, I have heard coaches complain that when they tell their students, OK, you have done enough quads today the skater might sneak off to the corner and do a few more anyway. (Coach Richard Callaghan reportedly had a terrible time withTara Lipinski overdoing it on the triple loop. It won her the Olympic Gold Medal at age 15 but by age 17 her hips were shot.

 

[sisinka]

Once again I had an opportunity to talk to Mr. RAFAEL ARUTYUNIAN for a while.

I asked him to do me a favour. I wanted him to give skaters some advices. He agreed and allowed me to post it here.

I asked him what he thinks skaters should do (or shouldn't do) to decrease number of injuries or avoid injuries.

Mr. Arutyunian's answer:
,,As to preventing injuries - it is a very big topic.

One of the key points is good technique. It is necessary for athletes. Having wrong technique, doing large number of repetitions - injuries are often happening, because there are bad postures or bad landings. Therefore, first of all, a skater must have good technique. It is not so easy to teach it. Professionals (specialists) who know how to teach good technique, are needed.

Secondly all kinds of prevention. What you do before training, what you do during training, what kind of physiotherapy you undergo. Of course this is very important as well.
All those procedures after training.
And stretching is very big topic also.
There are specialists for stretching. Athlete must be physically strong. And when athlete is physically strong, his muscles immediately become quite stiff, so you need to be able to stretch those muscles. If you have very tight muscles, but you don't work with them - you do not stretch them, then injuries occur immediately."

He also points out that ballet dancers and gymnasts are both strengthened and flexible, while some skaters are strong in torso, but stiff - their range of movement is reduced - which means there is lack of stretching. He wants to see skaters well balanced as to strengthening + flexibility.

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Big THANK YOU to Mr. Arutyunian for giving his time to answer and advice skaters. I appreciate it a lot.

 

[Arigato]

As if Nathan had no injuries or surgery . . .

 

[Mathman]

Figure skating is a high impact sport. No need to snark at a coach for being unable not forestall or prevent all injuries. Big time professional team sports like football employ armies of strength and conditioning experts but players still suffer career-ending injuries.

 

[sisinka]

As if Nathan had no injuries or surgery . . .

I highly recommend you to read Nathan Chen's biography - One Jump at a Time. If you did, than read it again.

In the book Nathan is very open about his skating life describing not only good moments, but also bad ones. He doesn't worry to admit that he or his family made wrong decisions and it needed time - years - to realise that and change their mindset. The book gives a perfect insight into life of top athlete and his surroundings. I am very glad that Nathan didn't avoid to talk about these things, I find it very helpful for next generation to learn from his experience.

Most of those wrong decisions were made in case of Nathan's overtraining and too many jumps repetitions.

As to Mr. Arutyunian - he did not agree with quad jump during US Gala. Nathan suffered from avulsion fracture thanks to that risk (and overtraining). He went for the jump because he was hyped from the audience. (Btw do we all realise that Ilia Malinin is being hyped about quad axel at every competition and gala, right?)

Nathan told that Rafael Arutyunian was frustrated with every injury. That he (coach) tried to change his mentality, but it took more years till Nathan realised that too many jumps repetitions and extra loads are leading mainly to injuries, not to bigger success. And it took additional extra time to implement this knowledge into training and Nathan's mindset.

Nathan also wrote that his coach wanted slower and "step by step" comeback on the ice during pandemic to prevent injuries, because muscles and body are not ready after that big ice break.

Nathan also admits that he went to another rink to have more practises, not telling this to his coach. He mentioned that Evan Lysacek was doing the same, although his coach Frank Carroll would tell him to go home to rest.

So no, reading the book, I don't think that Nathan's injuries are result of his coach's approach.

Mathman had two great posts. Not only the last one, but also previous post where he mentions Richard Callaghan's experience with Tara Lipinski. I recommed you to read it as well.

And I fully agree with Mathman's opinion that skating coach can't be automatically expected to control whole proccess off ice training and nutrition including. I think every athlete NEEDS somebody who would control whole proccess and plan loads per day (both on and off ice). I find this essential for injury prevention. But if it will be skating coach or conditioning coach or member of family or skater himself / herself, it is skater's team decision.

Nathan's situation coming to training loads was very difficult because nobody else (maybe Boyan Jin for some time) trained so many types of quad jumps those times. So there were no datas about how many quad jumps are relatively ,,safe". Retired skaters with toeloop / salchow quad jumps Timothy Goebel and Michael Weiss injured and took step back from 20 quad toeloop attempts (Weiss) or 20 to 30 quad salchow attempts (Goebel) to 5 quad toeloop attempts (Weiss) or 6-8 attempts to each quad type (Goebel) per day.

 

[dorispulaski]

Weiss was also training the quad Lutz.

 

[ladyjane]

Weiss made at least one attempt of the 4lutz at an competition too, but alas a 2-footed landing.

 

[Mathman]

IIRC Michael Weiss had many attempts at the quad Lutz. He really, really, really wanted that jump as his legacy. But he just could not prevent his free foot from brushing the ice on the landing.

Back in the 6.0 days, the ISU was a stickler about that (not so strict about under-rotations, though).) With the IJS I think that some of his attempts would have been"ratified" by tech panels.

By the way, Weiss also attempted to become the first U.S. man to land a quad toe loop in 1997 -- and he dud it! But later the ISU reviewed the tapes and decided that it was two-footed -- close but no cigar. (He later succeeded at this feat,) He missed parts of the 2000 season and of the 2001 season due to stress fractures.

 

[sisinka]

Weiss was also training the quad Lutz.

Weiss made at least one attempt of the 4lutz at an competition too, but alas a 2-footed landing.

IIRC Michael Weiss had many attempts at the quad Lutz. He really, really, really wanted that jump as his legacy. But he just could not prevent his free foot from brushing the ice on the landing.

Back in the 6.0 days, the ISU was a stickler about that (not so strict about under-rotations, though).) With the IJS I think that some of his attempts would have been"ratified" by tech panels.

By the way, Weiss also attempted to become the first U.S. man to land a quad toe loop in 1997 -- and he dud it! But later the ISU reviewed the tapes and decided that it was two-footed -- close but no cigar. (He later succeeded at this feat,) He missed parts of the 2000 season and of the 2001 season due to stress fractures.

Thank you for reminding me.
I completely forgot about Michael and quad lutz.

 

[dorispulaski]

Michael Weiss: Online Interview

Currently ranked third in the world by the International Skating Union, the 3-time United States National men's figure skating champion and 2-time

www.goldenskate.com

Weiss speaks about the 4Lz and a stress fracture in this GS Interview. One of the questioners is Mathman!

 

[Mathman]

Michael Weiss' stunning daughter Annie Mae is a sometime singer and television reporter/personality in Washington D.C. and is also the "arena host" for the Washington Capitals NHL hockey team.

Famous skaters who received schlarshoips from the Michael Weiss Foundation in their early years include Daisuke Murakami, Nathan Chen, Adam Rippon, Mirai Nagasu and Ashley Wagner.

 

[theblade]

Having had a family member train at an elite level in North American figure skating, it's shocking to see how many facilities are not up to snuff in a standardized way for off-ice training.

I'm talking not having dedicated training rooms for off-ice, or simply a general weight room (often meant for hockey team off-ice training), flooring that isn't ideal for off-ice jump/lift/dance work... Even a shiny new facility that opened up a few years back, meant to handle both hockey and figure skating, really only supported hockey player training (and had a "secret jump room" for the students of one coaching camp there, not available to students of other skaters).

Skating in NA at a serious competitor level is insanely expensive, and one must specialize early on (ie. well before the age of ten, mostly). This family member trained at top facilities, but pieced together off-ice training from family research. Essentially, the on-ice coaches did offer some options, but they were limited. Didn't want to take too much away from their own income. Top skaters had their own regimes and generally didn't share their recommendations with younger skaters.

It takes a lot to piece together an eating/fitness regime to suit a skater's needs, and although Skate Canada and USFS have recommendations, families still have to do a lot of leg work on their own when their skaters are climbing the ranks.

 

[sisinka]

Michael Weiss: Online Interview

Currently ranked third in the world by the International Skating Union, the 3-time United States National men's figure skating champion and 2-time

www.goldenskate.com

Weiss speaks about the 4Lz and a stress fracture in this GS Interview. One of the questioners is Mathman!

Thank you for the link. Interesting interview with interesting both questions and answers.

...

Famous skaters who received schlarshoips from the Michael Weiss Foundation in their early years include Daisuke Murakami, Nathan Chen, Adam Rippon, Mirai Nagasu and Ashley Wagner.

Nathan mentioned Michel Weiss Foundation in his book. He was very grateful for this.

Having had a family member train at an elite level in North American figure skating, it's shocking to see how many facilities are not up to snuff in a standardized way for off-ice training.

I'm talking not having dedicated training rooms for off-ice, or simply a general weight room (often meant for hockey team off-ice training), flooring that isn't ideal for off-ice jump/lift/dance work... Even a shiny new facility that opened up a few years back, meant to handle both hockey and figure skating, really only supported hockey player training (and had a "secret jump room" for the students of one coaching camp there, not available to students of other skaters).

Skating in NA at a serious competitor level is insanely expensive, and one must specialize early on (ie. well before the age of ten, mostly). This family member trained at top facilities, but pieced together off-ice training from family research. Essentially, the on-ice coaches did offer some options, but they were limited. Didn't want to take too much away from their own income. Top skaters had their own regimes and generally didn't share their recommendations with younger skaters.

It takes a lot to piece together an eating/fitness regime to suit a skater's needs, and although Skate Canada and USFS have recommendations, families still have to do a lot of leg work on their own when their skaters are climbing the ranks.

Thank you for insight of US conditions for skating. It would be interesting as a whole thread to discuss and compare all difficulties skaters and their families from different countries are handling. I would wish for much better conditions for skating all over the world. But I worry it does not seem realistic at the moment.

 

[sisinka]

Additional list of skaters with stress fracture:

- Kati Hadford - "...But then about three weeks before the US Nationals (January 2005) I had a stress fracture in my landing knee..." (https://absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2005katihadford )

- Amy Lin - "...She placed eighth in the short program at JGP Japan before withdrawing due to injury. Post-competition examinations revealed a bone bruise in her left ankle..." (September 2016), (Wikipedia)

- Haein Lee - suffered from stress fracture in 2019, which is already mentioned in the list.
She had another stress fracture.
..."During the 2020-2021 season, while preparing, she faced various setbacks. She had to regain her sense of jumping as she grew taller, and she also experienced setbacks such as reflux esophagitis and a stress fracture in her pelvis." (https://fs-gossips.com/10676/ )

- Joshi Helgesson - "...I worked so hard on those it resulted in a beginning of a stress fracture of the fibula (September 2012). I was doing triple toe-triple toe combinations...It was the take off leg that suffered the fracture. I had not been able to jump in six and a half weeks...I had only skated two weeks before the Cup of China, and four weeks before the Trophée Eric Bompard (2012) (https://absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2012joshihelgesson )

- Louann Donovan - "...won gold in her senior international debut at the 2004 Nebelhorn Trophy. Doing a triple flip after the event, she broke the navicular bone of her right foot in half. As doctors initially believed it was a sprain, she attempted to compete at the 2004 Finlandia Trophy and injured her foot further..." (Wikipedia )

- Veronika Taubeova - her parents allowed me to tell that she had ischial stress fracture in autumn 2024 (13 years old), coming back on the ice on January 2025

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- Elvis Stojko - "...an injury to his left foot, later diagnosed as a fractured bone, which had prevented him from practising some of his triple jumps for almost a month (February 1992)..." (https://www.kurtfiles.com/articles/article.php?cat=SOI&id=35 )

- Kurt Browning - "...At Skate America (1985), Kurt injured his back during the freeskate. It wasn't until after Canadians that he had xrays which revealed a hairline fracture in the 4th lumbar ... requiring Kurt to stay off the ice for 2 months..." (https://www.kurtfiles.com/memorylane/m1985.htm )

 

[sisinka]

UPDATED

List of skaters with STRESS FRACTURES:

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