The Judging Controversy Thread

[Lovelovely]

I just can't believe that adelina sotnikova recieved higher goe on jumps than yuna kim. Yuna is an excellent jumper. Her jumping technique is nearly perfect. On the other hand its true adelina's jumps are big but her jump technique is brash!!!! One more things to note. Why is adelina's pcs so high?? Its just ridiculous! !!!!!

 

[usethis2]

It's not a matter of subjectivity but a matter of degree. We are all reasonable people, or at least should strive to be.

The judging in these events were insanity.

 

[Lovelovely]

One of the most thing I do NOT understand 150% is how the hell did adelina get higher goe than yuna on 3F??!!! Someone please explain

 

[spikydurian]

working hard there
yep the whole games was a fix

that includes D/W then

sky fly fixed it!

 

[usethis2]

So her victory hinges on whether she can deliver, not at all on whether Kim can deliver?

And don't tell me Kim didn't deliver. They both delivered. The judges went with Adelina.

And I love how people say Yuna wasn't good enough to get her scores from Vancouver but Adelina was. The extent of Adelina's delivery can be questioned exactly the same way as people defending her scores are trying to tear apart Yuna's as not good enough and Mao's with too many mistakes and who the hell knows why Caro isn't good enough. Maybe some people enjoyed her skating more over Kim's, but Kim also delivered, flawlessly, and there are people who appreciated Kim's skating more. That's a matter of taste, not the matter of judging.

lol indeed. I look back on this forum and oh how so funny.. People were discussing how much wiggle room Kim had against Yulia.. the consensus seemed to be that Kim could afford one fall but no more. That turned out to be too generous! Had Kim fallen, they would have given gold/silver to Adelina/Yulia.

 

[Ophelia]

So her victory hinges on whether she can deliver, not at all on whether Kim can deliver?

And don't tell me Kim didn't deliver. They both delivered. The judges went with Adelina.

And I love how people say Yuna wasn't good enough to get her scores from Vancouver but Adelina was. The extent of Adelina's delivery can be questioned exactly the same way as people defending her scores are trying to tear apart Yuna's as not good enough and Mao's with too many mistakes and who the hell knows why Caro isn't good enough. Maybe some people enjoyed her skating more over Kim's, but Kim also delivered, flawlessly, and there are people who appreciated Kim's skating more. That's a matter of taste, not the matter of judging.

Thank you for this. Some posters here need to take debate or logic classes. So many poorly reasoned arguments.

I would like to point out that kostner also delivered.

I said this before and I'm going to say it again, if Julia didn't fall she would've probably gotten OGM. With the fall, her PCS is still ahead of Maos.

 

[andyjo24]

Yu-na's base value in SP: 31.43
Sot's in SP: 30.43

Yu-na's in LP: 57.49
Sot's in LP: 61.43

Yu-na's Combined BV: 88.92
Sot's Combined BV:91.86

Total Difference : 2.94.......

Sot won by GOE's.....

And this is including the fact that Yu-na got Lvl 3's on her step sequences for both the SP and LP.

The difference in their difficulty is not the reason why Adelina won.

 

[acco-lade]

Again, Again, we have to start from SP to judge whether Sot deserved the gold or not.

Did Sot deserve the SP score she earned? Absolutely NOT. +35 PCS and 2nd placement with 3T+3T? Only lady in top 3 who received lv4 in Stsq? With THAT program?

How can you possibly justify Sot's SP score? There should have been much more score difference from SP, between Yuna CaroK and Sot.

For LP : It is simply wrong to compare Yuna 2010 to Yuna 2014 to justify Sot's win. Yuna 2014 needed to top Sot 2014, not Yuna 2010 to win gold. And did she do that?

In every single category of PCS, Yuna Kim should have gained lot more points than Sot. There had to be way more score difference.

How about GOE? Yuna's 3Lz+3T and 3F was even smoother and higher than before. They satisfy height, ice-coverage, effortlessness, bit delayed, etc to satisfy +2 GOE category at least. Her 3Sal, and especially 2A were outstanding too. Look at the flow in and out! Yuna is not an ordinary jumper. She is the best ever jumper produced by COP.

Her quality of Jumps were not worse than 2013 worlds, but GOE was way lower than she got before.

How about Sot's jump GOE? Like someone already pointed out, one judge gave automatic +3s to EVERYTHING she jumped. How can that be justified? How can her 3Lz 3T can get +1-+2, or even +3 GOE with wrong edge on Lz and very much borderline(if not URed) 3T ? How about her 2 footed double jump which was very much URed in the combination?

If these were corrected, Sot's TES would be somewhat at least 3 pts lower than she actually got.

Tech panel. This tech panel gave UR to somewhat borderline triples to all the ladies from SP, but not to Russians. No edge calls to Russians. Level 4 stsq only to the Russians.

I mean, how can ISU let Russian Judge to be a technical Panel in the Olympics in Russia? How can that happen?

Sot may have slight, slight edge over Yuna for doing 3L, but the difference in TES should have been much less. I don't even want to go to PCS category.

Combined with SP, no, the result does NOT make any sense.

Yuna outskated Sot, period.

Totally agreeable

 

[gds102]

Again, Again, we have to start from SP to judge whether Sot deserved the gold or not.

Did Sot deserve the SP score she earned? Absolutely NOT. +35 PCS and 2nd placement with 3T+3T? Only lady in top 3 who received lv4 in Stsq? With THAT program?

How can you possibly justify Sot's SP score? There should have been much more score difference from SP, between Yuna CaroK and Sot.

For LP : It is simply wrong to compare Yuna 2010 to Yuna 2014 to justify Sot's win. Yuna 2014 needed to top Sot 2014, not Yuna 2010 to win gold. And did she do that?

In every single category of PCS, Yuna Kim should have gained lot more points than Sot. There had to be way more score difference.

How about GOE? Yuna's 3Lz+3T and 3F was even smoother and higher than before. They satisfy height, ice-coverage, effortlessness, bit delayed, etc to satisfy +2 GOE category at least. Her 3Sal, and especially 2A were outstanding too. Look at the flow in and out! Yuna is not an ordinary jumper. She is the best ever jumper produced by COP.

Her quality of Jumps were not worse than 2013 worlds, but GOE was way lower than she got before.

How about Sot's jump GOE? Like someone already pointed out, one judge gave automatic +3s to EVERYTHING she jumped. How can that be justified? How can her 3Lz 3T can get +1-+2, or even +3 GOE with wrong edge on Lz and very much borderline(if not URed) 3T ? How about her 2 footed double jump which was very much URed in the combination?

If these were corrected, Sot's TES would be somewhat at least 3 pts lower than she actually got.

Tech panel. This tech panel gave UR to somewhat borderline triples to all the ladies from SP, but not to Russians. No edge calls to Russians. Level 4 stsq only to the Russians.

I mean, how can ISU let Russian Judge to be a technical Panel in the Olympics in Russia? How can that happen?

Sot may have slight, slight edge over Yuna for doing 3L, but the difference in TES should have been much less. I don't even want to go to PCS category.

Combined with SP, no, the result does NOT make any sense.

Yuna outskated Sot, period.

Totally agree.

 

[usethis2]

Me, too. Those automatic +3 GOEs.. yumm..

 

[joynara]

I believe the judges have strong reasons for backing up Adelina, and they have prepared for the backlash they will receive for making Adelina win over the queen. Someday some judges who has judged this competition might speak out after he/she is retired. Over the years, this controversy will die down. History repeats. This is not the first time. It is certainly not the last.

I don't think anyone wants another conspiracy scandal. Another scandal will kill figure skating.

The petition to investigate the judging now has almost 1.2 million signatures!

These people are not helping to make skating more popular. They are helping to kill skating.

Let's see... here's an athlete who has inspired an entire nation of some 50+million people to take interest in figure skating and her most ardent fans to master the IJS like the back of their hands. And now that they're raising some legitimate questions that even former champions such as Katarina Witt and experts and commentators struggle to answer, strictly working by the set of rules that's been put into place since the LAST major scandal, they're the ones "helping to kill skating"? "not making more popular"? so essentially creating a scandal that simply doesn't exist?

O the humanity.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Is it weird I'm starting to feel glad Yulia didn't win gold? At least everyone thought she was the star and earned her gold in the team event considering the score. Even I said her team event score should have been around 135. I still maintain a clean Yulia being worthy of a 140 like at a euros. Sorry...I do. The thing is she would have still won the team event easy with 135!! The sad thing is all Adelina did was skate her heart out and it's not fair but this may haunt her career. Hmmm??

 

[yuki90]

YuNa
3Lz+3T 10.10
3F 5.30
2A 3.63 x

3Lz+3T 10.10
3F 5.30
3S+2T 5.50
3Lz 6.60 
2A+2T+2Lo 7.04 
3S 4.62 x
2A 3.63 x 
Total 61.84

Sotnikova
3T+3T 8.20 
3F 5.30
2A 3.63 x

3Lz+3T 10.10 (Wrong edge. should get -GOE -1~-2 but Judges gave +GOE.)
3F 5.30
3Lo 5.10 
2A+3T 8.14 x
3F+2T+2Lo 9.24 x 
3S 4.62 x 
2A 3.63 x
Total 63.26 

the difference is only 1.42 point.
Their PCS is almost same in both SP and FP.
YuNa's step sequence got level 3 in SP and FP and Adelina got level 4 and 1.7 GOE.
This is fixed from the beginnig.

 

[Lovelovely]

Omg I just knew it. Why the hel didn't sotnikova get an edge call with her flutz??!!! If they are not willing to give out edge calls might as well just combine lutz and flip. This is outrageous

 

[usethis2]

Is it weird I'm starting to feel glad Yulia didn't win gold? At least everyone thought she was the star and earned her gold in the team event considering the score. Even I said her team event score should have been around 135. I still maintain a clean Yulia being worthy of a 140 like at a euros. Sorry...I do. The thing is she would have still won the team event easy with 135!! The sad thing is all Adelina did was skate her heart out and it's not fair but this may haunt her career. Hmmm??

I think it's best for you to stay out of this, as you declared earlier in this very thread. (Post #272 if you need a refresher) It's funny that you were so devoted to Yulia prior to the event and now trying to turn to Adelina.. Your intent is as transparent as the judging in this event. Everyone skated their hearts out. That's not the criteria of judging in this sport.

 

[bebevia]

I'm getting tired from no sleep after this. So, for fun, I typed this:

======================

The judges who stayed for both the SP & FS:

HOWARD Karen CANADA
BENINI Franco ITALY
FOELL Birgit GERMANY
YOSHIOKA Nobuhiko JAPAN
DOMANSKA Adriana SLOVAK


==

The ones who only did the SP:

ROSENBLUTH Robert USA
STEVENS Diana UK
HENRIKSSON Katarina SWEDEN
KOH Sung-Hee KOREA


==

The above were substituted at the FS by:

BALKOV Yury UKRAINE = "the Tapper"
KULIK Zanna ESTONIA = Russian
SHEKHOVTSEVA Alla RUSSIA = "the Wife" (many stories follow her, good or bad)
CUCUPHAT Helene FRANCE = nation 2002


======================

- And we also know the Russian tech control thing... He could've finally bloomed here thing...
- BTW, the judging panel names for FS did not come up until far after the SP. Anyone know why they do that, or if this was first?

eta: They weren't necessarily swapped, just so I don't confuse anyone. Judging panel is renewed for each SP & FS. Not that the arrangements don't look errr.......ish.

 

[ozmodiar]

Tweets from Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil of the Chicago Tribune:


To everyone who watched on TV. I just watched sotnikova on TV after seeing her live, and her power and speed were much more evident live.

My sense of outrage over the result was quickly tempered by looking at judging details and talking with those far more expert than I

I am outraged that ISU makes no effort to explain why yuna got level 3 instead of 4 on 2 elements. Sit in castle, watch sport die

Yuna gave away a lot of points with her jump choices - as john powers of Bos globe said, like Plushenko in Vancouver

This reminds me of Tara-Michelle In 98. The kid whose energy was her presentation against more sophisticated but tentative skater

One final thought before 5 am bedtime: the blame here rests entirely on ISU for creating system that baffles everyone . If....

It is going to be that complicated, you can't be arrogant idiots and not explain it. Good night


And here's the article he posted with quotes from Stojko and Wylie:

http://t.co/YgQbWC9izy

 

[usethis2]

Edit: This is a response to the post above by bebevia wrt judge swaps.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think it's best for you to stay out of this, as you declared earlier in this very thread. (Post #272 if you need a refresher) It's funny that you were so devoted to Yulia prior to the event and now trying to turn to Adelina.. Your intent is as transparent as the judging in this event. Everyone skated their hearts out. That's not the criteria of judging in this sport.

Trying to turn to Adelina? Lol. I've always respected Adelina. I am a bit bitter that Yulia has never beat her in Russia though ill admit. I've always said that the judge low balling Yulia at Euros was the Russian judge propping Adelina..their golden girl. I'm no stranger to these theories. I just haven't stepped far enough back and got far enough away to process the whole thing. My whole point in posting was that I'm just unsure of what happened and maybe my favorite(YULIA) dodged a bullet by falling and not winning this crazy medal.

 

[usethis2]

OK, sorry for trying to read your mind. I will only ask you to keep your words. (again, see post #272)