The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 47 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

yes. Im sure fix is in.

I'm saying even without RUS/UKR judges there is not going to be 5 point PCS gap. Just look at lowest Sotnikova got.:rolleye: If there is a fix, then its including Canada, Germany, Japan, Italy, France too. I know what russian judge scored but I want to know what that judges scored. :eek:
 
The score gap between Yuna and Adelinna sotinokova is around 5 points. And Russians say this is because sotinokova has jumped one more triple jump.
But though Yuna has jumped one less triple jump, she did one more double jump. which means the total number of jumps is just the SAME.
Yuna jumped 6 triple +5 double while sotinokova jumped 7triple + 4 double.

The score gap between triple and double is just 2 points.

This fact shows if that was the main reason to have the score gap it should be more or less around 2points instead of 5 points. and aside from that, we all know she has one double jump mistake in free program. this means there must not be any score gap between Yuna and sotinokova.

Therefore Sotinokova score gap argument connecting to number of triple jump is nonsense

This is very perceptive! If only the journalists explaining everything had done their research.
 
Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. (according to rules his/her scores are not counting) Even his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS. :eek: They awarded second gold in 2002 because without French judge, scores are tied. So If IOC discard Russia/Ukranie judges like they did in 2002, I don't think that going to be enough for Kim.:confused:

I'm saying even without RUS/UKR judges there is not going to be 5 point PCS gap. Just look at lowest Sotnikova got.:rolleye: If there is a fix, then its including Canada, Germany, Japan, Italy, France too. I know what russian judge scored but I want to know what that judges scored. :eek:

this is a legitimate point.. anyone have any thoughts on this? did the rest of the judging panel really think Adelina was better as well?
 
Maybe someone has already mentioned this (sorry I didn't check all the posts), but here is a nice article by the Japan Times: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...judges-steal-kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/

Article from Japan Times.

Scandalous outcome: Skating judges steal Kim’s title, hand it to Sotnikova

SOCHI, RUSSIA – Yuna Kim got robbed on Thursday night. Plain and simple.

What happened to her at the Sochi Games was a complete and utter disgrace. Another black eye for figure skating.

The elegant and magnetic South Korean superstar gave a wonderful performance in very difficult circumstances, not making a single mistake, yet came away with only a silver medal in what can only be deemed a scandalous result.

Russian gold medalist Adelina Sotnikova was impressive in her free skate, but was she five points better than Kim?

No way. How over the top was Sotnikova’s score in the free skate? Sixteen points better than her previous personal best.
Give me a break. What should have been a glorious moment for Russian skating was taking on a decidedly different tone the morning after, with some very disturbing information emerging.

I spoke with several journalists in the Main Press Center on Friday morning and it was nearly unanimous — they almost all thought that Kim had beaten home favorite Sotnikova.

Before I even made it back to my hotel after the competition, the debate was already beginning to rage.

With the arrival of Kim and Mao Asada many years ago, skating in Asia has been enjoying a boom. But the sad reality is that in many other places it has been languishing. The results in women’s singles here will only make promoting it harder. Every time something like this occurs it does exponential damage.

Millions of people around the world are watching and presuming it is all legitimate. Skating is a great sport — one that teaches important values to youngsters about dedication, hard work and sportsmanship — and to see it besmirched again is very disturbing.

What are the young skaters and fans who watched the free skate supposed to think?

What bothers me most is that here was this great champion, an incredible symbol for skating, giving it her all one more time. Kim is a millionaire many times over and certainly didn’t need to compete. She is set for life.

But she knew she was still young enough to give it another go and wanted her fans to have another chance to see her on the greatest stage. She put her legacy on the line in a bid to become only the third woman ever to retain the Olympic title (after Norway’s Sonja Henie and Germany’s Katarina Witt). It was a gutsy move.

Brennan, the author of the highly acclaimed skating book “Inside Edge,” didn’t mince any words in her analysis of the free skate, telling it exactly like it was.
“What happened tonight in the women’s figure skating competition was worse than the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal because, this time, we’ll never find out who might have done what because all the judges’ scores are now anonymous,” she wrote.
Brennan also quoted Joseph Inman, an American international skating judge as saying, “I was surprised with the result.”
Kim nailed both of her programs and should have retained her title. That is the bottom line.

Three-time U.S. champion Michael Weiss sensed something amiss with this Twitter comment on Thursday. “Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”

That’s the way it is supposed to be. Legendary American skater Dick Button, a two-time Olympic champion (1948, 1952), has been an analyst now for decades. The messages he tweeted said it all. “At one point, I had doubts regarding Yuna Kim — not after today. She was superb, elegant, charming. Never a wilt.” His feelings about the gold medalist were different. “Sotnikova was energetic, strong, commendable, but not a complete skater.”

What folks need to understand is that Sotnikova didn’t just emerge from oblivion. She has been around for a few years. She is a four-time Russian champion and the 2011 world junior champion. But in her three seasons skating on the senior circuit, she has never even won a Grand Prix event, much less medaled at a major international competition. She has qualified just once for the world championships as a senior, finishing ninth in 2013.

Did she suddenly become great overnight? Good enough to beat Kim in the Olympics? Your common sense will tell you no. Once you arrive there, the rest is not difficult to deduce.

Kim showed her true class with her comments after the free skate. She could have stirred up controversy, but was magnanimous in defeat. “The score is given by the judges,” she said. “I’m not in the right position to comment on it. And my words can change nothing.”

The reality is the trap for Kim was set on Wednesday night with the unfairly high score that Sotnikova received in the short program.
Kim was fabulous skating to “Send in the Clowns” and should have had a lead of at least four points heading into the free skate.

Instead, both Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova received inflated marks and the former was less than half a point behind Kim in second place. It was as if once it became apparent that Lipnitskaia wasn’t going to be a contender for the gold, the impetus swung to push Sotnikova. There is nothing that damages sports more than predictability, the preordained result. That’s what you saw on Thursday night.

Kim could not have gotten out of the Iceberg Skating Palace with the gold medal if she had left with it in an armored car.
I almost felt as if I were watching a play where Kim was going to be brought out and sacrificed as the final act.
That would have gone along with the story line, but Kim would have none of it. She displayed the heart and courage of a true champion in an amazing effort.

What happened next was a damn shame.


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/#.UwiwcWJ_tjM
 
re: Filing a protest within 30 minutes

This rule does not make it easy for athletes to file a complaint. Yuna went last in the competition, so she doesn't have nearly as much time as the other competitors to analyze and digest her scores.

Yuna would effectively have to go straight from the k.n.c. to an area with computer access, compare her scores, then go find the referee in the arena while everyone is supposed to be talking to the media or lining up for the flower ceremony.

Also, the protest rules don't effectively take into account what if it's later discovered that a judge is corrupt and the winner is seen hugging three of the judges.
 
Where are the transitions champions when you need them? It looks like Russians' big argument is that Adelina had more transitions and Yuna had none.
 
“Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”

That’s the way it is supposed to be."

Well, if we go with that logic. V&M should have won gold. I still don't get why Kostner is not factored at all in this debate.
 
Adelina she not graceful, not artist, she is chunky, not elegant...she not beautiful skate, yes the technical but not the gold medal perform, no way
 
Adelina she not graceful, not artist, she is chunky, not elegant...she not beautiful skate, yes the technical but not the gold medal perform, no way

YuNa
3Lz+3T 10.10
3F 5.30
2A 3.63 x

3Lz+3T 10.10
3F 5.30
3S+2T 5.50
3Lz 6.60 
2A+2T+2Lo 7.04 
3S 4.62 x
2A 3.63 x 
Total 61.84

Sotnikova
3T+3T 8.20 
3F 5.30
2A 3.63 x

3Lz+3T 10.10 (Wrong edge. should get -GOE -1~-2 but Judges gave +GOE.)
3F 5.30
3Lo 5.10 
2A+3T 8.14 x
3F+2T+2Lo 9.24 x 
3S 4.62 x 
2A 3.63 x
Total 63.26 

the difference is only 1.42 point.
Their PCS is almost same in both SP and FP.
YuNa's step sequence got level 3 in SP and FP and Adelina got level 4 and 1.7 GOE.
This is fixed from the beginnig.YuNa was robbed of gold medal.
 
Yuna is the queen and she will always be queen..my wish to her for is to be happy now...she always not look happy...I see the lonely in her eyes...she have made the people happy...now she should go to be happy...she not need gold medal...she is a diamond
 
Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. (according to rules his/her scores are not counting) Even his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS. :eek: They awarded second gold in 2002 because without French judge, scores are tied. So If IOC discard Russia/Ukranie judges like they did in 2002, I don't think that going to be enough for Kim.:confused:

I'm saying even without RUS/UKR judges there is not going to be 5 point PCS gap. Just look at lowest Sotnikova got.:rolleye: If there is a fix, then its including Canada, Germany, Japan, Italy, France too. I know what russian judge scored but I want to know what that judges scored. :eek:

any thoughts on this yet?

also, as mentioned earlier, the rule is 30 minutes after a competition - so what can be done? How fast did they lodge a formal complaint in 2002?
 
any thoughts on this yet?

also, as mentioned earlier, the rule is 30 minutes after a competition - so what can be done? How fast did they lodge a formal complaint in 2002?

this is not 2002. Canadian pair demanded gold, but Kim accepted the result.
 
But Mao's base value was 5 points higher. And Adelina's jumps weren't judged nearly as harshly.

Mao's highest GOE for jumps and spins are 0.80. :confused: Usually her spins are much better but they were a little bit shaky on the free.

this is not 2002. Canadian pair demanded gold, but Kim accepted the result.

I think they accepted silver but later french judge's vote was discarded. Because of scores are tied this way, they gave another gold to canadians.
 
any thoughts on this yet?

also, as mentioned earlier, the rule is 30 minutes after a competition - so what can be done? How fast did they lodge a formal complaint in 2002?

That was my first post of this program components scoring. Maybe we can discard another highest for Adelina, lowest for Kim. This way scoring will be much more to Kim's advantage.

Problem is not just russian and ukranian judges. Almost all judges scored Sotnikova very high. This is including CAN, ITA, GER, EST, JPN, FRA and SVK judges. This is really confusing:confused:

OK I did a little math with scores.

Without highest two judges (possibly russia and ukraine) and lowest (mandatory) Adelina's scores are:

SS:9.12
TR:8.91
PE:9.37
CH:9.45
IN:9.37

Overall PCS:73.95

Without lowest two judges (possibly russia and ukranie) and highest (mandatory) Kim's scores are:

SS:9.25
TR:9.00
PE:9.45
CH:9.45
IN:9.62

Overall PCS:74.8

Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. Even just his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS.:eek:
 
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