The Judging Controversy Thread

[Elaine]

I think we are confusing arguing the performance, and arguing whether or not there was a conspiracy with the judges

ITA. In fact, I don't think there was any bribery, but I think scoring in this events was wrong in many ways. I blame the tendency that the judges do the home inflation without any hesitancy. It's not only about this olympic, but this was the worst case of it.

 

[usethis2]

At least now human garbage will think twice before spewing lies around. They usually do not think people will fact-check so they spread lies with impunity. A quick Googling is your friend to embarrass them and perhaps to end their careers here.

 

[moviechick]

Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. (according to rules his/her scores are not counting) Even his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS. They awarded second gold in 2002 because without French judge, scores are tied. So If IOC discard Russia/Ukranie judges like they did in 2002, I don't think that going to be enough for Kim.

I think everyone knows that nothing is going to come of this unless every single judge is caught on tape admitting that they were bought off. Plus you gotta throw in the short program judges who weren't on the FS panel. It's pretty much a legal Mount Everest to actually do something about this. This would be like Adelina getting all 1st place ordinals under the 6.0 system.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

At least now human garbage will think twice before spewing lies around. They usually do not think people will fact-check so they spread lies with impunity. A quick Googling is your friend to embarrass them and perhaps to end their careers here.

 

[bebevia]

The more the results sit in, and I look back, I came to believe that it's a passive issue in the ISU and IJS. Not necessarily a malice by conspiracy, but more that they don't feel responsible enough as an authority organization to operate under a credible system.

In a way, it is worse than conspiracy. For example, when I first linked the Chinquanta interview article, I was amazed that such attitude and codes of ethics were allowed for an elite authority figure:

1. calling a major judging fraud "a minor violation"
2. that the tapper came back judging all sorts of major competitions
3. after only a year of suspension
4. ISU denies its responsibility of letting one in
5. conflict of personal interest is disregarded
6. appointing technical panels by personal preference (no matter how good she is) and disrespecting the peers (others are "idiots")
7. etc., etc.

These are very basic problems that can be easily solved, and even a convenience store in the block has better regulations than that.

I also believe appointment of Russian-friendly panel was affected by this. It cannot be called a "conspiracy" since everything was within the rules and not hidden. They probably saw and felt this would be so, but did not think it is an issue and thought it's part of fair strategy and luck. They may have thought it's only something like FIFA World Cup hosts mowing grasses in their players' favourite condition and playing games during their daytime - which is not. In soccer, if a referee from the host country was at a crucial match of the host team, that would be a scandal.

It is told that being an ISU judge is not a paid position but a volunteer; that they are trained and enthusiastic about the sport. However, when they are so keen on coming back after embarrassments, we already know they see benefits in becoming one, and by accepting such obvious misconduct, ISU is corrupt with political and power plays.

I dunno. Anonymous guesses and frustrations.

 

[caseyl23]

I think everyone knows that nothing is going to come of this unless every single judge is caught on tape admitting that they were bought off. Plus you gotta throw in the short program judges who weren't on the FS panel. It's pretty much a legal Mount Everest to actually do something about this. This would be like Adelina getting all 1st place ordinals under the 6.0 system.

I've been curious about what form an inquiry might take with the IJS. Is there any chance the South Koreans could base their inquiry on things like levels and grades of execution for Yu-Na versus Adelina? For example, could they point to Yu-Na's footwork sequences and try to say it should have received Level 4 versus Level 3? If so, something that like would directly affect the number of points she received, and then you get into a very awkward area.

 

[moviechick]

I've been curious about what form an inquiry might take with the IJS. Is there any chance the South Koreans could base their inquiry on things like levels and grades of execution for Yu-Na versus Adelina? For example, could they point to Yu-Na's footwork sequences and try to say it should have received Level 4 versus Level 3? If so, something that like would directly affect the number of points she received, and then you get into a very awkward area.

That's a pretty murky and subjective argument though. They're not going to change the results based on anything like that, so I don't think it's even worth going after unless they can literally prove that all the judges were corrupted. And I highly doubt Yuna would want to win a gold medal the way S/P did.

 

[caseyl23]

That's a pretty murky and subjective argument though. They're not going to change the results based on anything like that, so I don't think it's even worth going after unless they can literally prove that all the judges were corrupted. And I highly doubt Yuna would want to win a gold medal the way S/P did.

I agree it seems like a long shot. If there is any kind of system set up to allow for those arguments, I'd assume it's something like gymnastics, where any inquiry has to be made within a given time period. (I haven't looked into the rules for a situation like this.) With the way IJS is written out, though, with specific levels listed for elements, and written criteria for what can go help increase the level of each element, it seems they might have a better chance of succeeding if they can point to those rules and say "Our skater deserved more points because she met Points A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H on this jump, that spin and her second footwork sequence" than saying "She should have gotten more program components than Skater B, and we feel the results were unfair because there were judges from Countries 1, 3, 7 and 9."

 

[Jaana]

Plus an American tech controller.

Inman was not a judge in 2010 Vancouver/men´s event.

Is Igor Bich an American? It looks to me that in Vancouver there were several Russian names among the judging panel:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/SEG002OF.HTM

I hope that IOC will bann the figure skating from the Olympics! The current situation is disgusting. If ISU cannot clean it´s house and manage to have fair judging in events, banning is the only solution, in my opinion.

 

[whatif]

Inman was not a judge in 2010 Vancouver/men´s event.

Is Igor Bich an American? It looks to me that in Vancouver there were several Russian names among the judging panel:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/SEG002OF.HTM

There was no Russian or any EE country judges on ladies short programme panel. The Russian judging argument is mute in this case, IMO.

 

[Jaana]

There was no Russian or any EE country judges on ladies short programme panel. The Russian judging argument is mute in this case, IMO.

Yes, but I´m feeling that they got instructions from ISU to favour the Russian skaters... And that explains Kim´s low scoring in sp. I´m not complaining only about Russian judges, I´m also blaming ISU for all the mess that has been seen during the whole season.

 

[whatif]

Yes, but I´m feeling that they got instructions to favour the Russian skaters... And that explains Kim´s low scoring in sp.

That is a theory BUT unless there is evidence to contrary that's all there is.

 

[Jaana]

That is a theory BUT unless there is evidence to contrary that's all there is.

Evidence is the skating itself which can be viewed!

 

[whatif]

Evidence is the skating itself which can be viewed!

And so, 15 judges from different countries did. The fact is the decision was unanimous. You can't bribe everyone including a judge from South Korea itself.

 

[moviechick]

And so, 15 judges from different countries did. The fact is the decision was unanimous. You can't bribe everyone including a judge from South Korea itself.

Well technically you can bribe all of them but it's just extremely out there and hard to prove.

 

[leafygreens]

kim was slow and tentative

May I suggest an eye exam?

You can't use the "98 Michelle Kwan excuse" here.

this is not 2002. Canadian pair demanded gold, but Kim accepted the result.

I don't believe the Canadians ever "accepted" the result, only the judge was found to be corrupt, which is the same case here with Yuri Balkov, except Yuri was allowed to judge after the fact! W Tee F!

Even if Kim "accepted" the result, that doesn't mean the sport as a whole, future athletes, the press and all of its fans, should accept the results. Simply on the basis of fairness and equality in sport, these results should not be accepted, by anyone.

 

[usethis2]

That's a pretty murky and subjective argument though. They're not going to change the results based on anything like that, so I don't think it's even worth going after unless they can literally prove that all the judges were corrupted. And I highly doubt Yuna would want to win a gold medal the way S/P did.

Found the PCS graph that were buried.

http://postimg.org/image/xbh1dctfp/

See for yourself.

Edit: I myself don't expect result changes for these games, even though the results are wrong IMO. I hope, however, for an improved system where federations have next-to-no influence.

 

[kslr0816]

was adelina's performance similar to ones in her past, or did she look like a totally different skater out there for the olympics?

 

[usethis2]

was adelina's performance similar to ones in her past, or did she look like a totally different skater out there for the olympics?

She managed stay on feed, for sure. Which was all that's needed for her gold. (remember the suspense was whether the Russian ladies could stay on feet, not Kim or anyone else could deliver)

How about Yulia? Oh-so-much better performances?

 

[kslr0816]

She managed stay on feed, for sure. Which was all that's needed for her gold. (remember the suspense was whether the Russian ladies could stay on feet, not Kim or anyone else could deliver)

How about Yulia? Oh-so-much better performances?

yeah frankly yulia looked amazing out there aside from her falls (i thought - not a figure skating aficionado). i realyl thought if she skated clean she would have won the gold - without any controversy, that is. just from the eyes of a casual observer