The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 189 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

Camera angle TERROR

Andre Smith said:
RIP figure skating.
Never let Russia host the Olympics.
Click to expand...

You guys are terrored by camera angles by russia especially on jumping in Yuna's long program. Russia broadcasted through their own camera, yet nbc had their own camera.
Long program
nbc
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...search_pos=&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk
cbc
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...pos=-438130&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk

BONUS
Short Program
nbc
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxwLFo0a6PSQbGhTWE9rYmxoY1U/edit
cbc
http://vimeo.com/88149200
gala
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...pos=-478130&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk
 
Nadya said:
I know that people don't endure pain unless they want to, or unless there's something in it for them. You can't convince me that Kim didn't go into this competition willingly. No one HAS to face anything unless they decide to.
Click to expand...

of course.. ultimately it is her choice.. but her situation is not that simple.. just watch in the next 2 years assuming that there's no korean skater will qualify in pyeongchang.. :popcorn:
 
Very interesting indeed.

In fact, it's basically digging into the numbers and all but confirming what a lot of people already suspect - that the panel was heavily biased, and that judges have figured out how to "game" the IJS to rank skaters in the order they want to, just like 6.0 days. May as well go back TBH. All this stuff about knowing what to improve upon is just a smokescreen. The problem was never the system, it was the people and they never got booted. So, should we be shocked that the same crap is happening again, except now people can't prove anything or indict anyone - they can only suspect?

Funny that nowadays you need a statistician to get to the heart of the issue. Even then, can't prove any allegations of collusion due to anonymity of judges. Congrats ISU, mission well accomplished...:rolleye:

Skating took a big hit after 2002...it seemed to be starting a bit of a recovery...I wonder if this will set it back again. Not necessarily in Japan (or Russia, for that matter), but the rest of the world.
 
lilahozi said:
I think you underestimate the amount of pressure Skating Federations can put on their skaters.
Click to expand...
To be able to put pressure on someone, you have to have something they want, or be able to hurt them. What can the federation do to Kim? She has no plans to continue competing. She has millions in the bank. She doesn't need them. THEY need HER.
 
Nadya said:
To be able to put pressure on someone, you have to have something they want, or be able to hurt them. What can the federation do to Kim? She has no plans to continue competing. She has millions in the bank. She doesn't need them. THEY need HER.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know. They could play her a sad song about how everything she has she got from figure skating, and now if she has a conscience at all she should give back to the sport by doing this, that, and the other for the sake if all the youngsters coming up through the ranks who admire her. The KSU, and the Korean Olympic Committee, could also promise to showcase Kim at the 2018 Olympics and strongly support her bid for an IOC position -- or withhold that support if she doesn't play ball. (If I were the KSU I'd go with the first approach. ;) )
 
R.D. said:
In fact, it's basically digging into the numbers and all but confirming what a lot of people already suspect - that the panel was heavily biased, and that judges have figured out how to "game" the IJS to rank skaters in the order they want to, just like 6.0 days. May as well go back TBH. All this stuff about knowing what to improve upon is just a smokescreen. The problem was never the system, it was the people and they never got booted. So, should we be shocked that the same crap is happening again, except now people can't prove anything or indict anyone - they can only suspect?

Funny that nowadays you need a statistician to get to the heart of the issue…
Click to expand...

The problem with all these statistical analyses is that they assume that judges' scores are just randomly thrown out there, as if we were taking a random sample from a large population. In other words, what we study in Stat 101. This isn't the case, so…

For instance, the study of the Italian physicist is based primarily on the assumption that a skater's PCSs should not go up very much from one competition to another. Well, sometimes they do. Statisticians don't like it, but there you are.

That is why 6.0 was the more honest system. In 6.0 the unit of study is the judge. In IJS the unit of study is the CoP point. Only that's kind of irrelevant and it still comes down to the individual judge and the tech panel. Why pretend otherwise?
 
Nadya said:
To be able to put pressure on someone, you have to have something they want, or be able to hurt them. What can the federation do to Kim? She has no plans to continue competing. She has millions in the bank. She doesn't need them. THEY need HER.
Click to expand...

You really have no idea on the importance and the nature of 'filial piety' to one's family, country, society, future generations that requires great degrees of selflessness and sacrifice in a Confucianism ingrained country like Korea? For her to tell herself not to care is practically denying herself of being a Korean.

(But hey, I am sure you will find some way of nitpicking the way I say thing instead of focusing on what I am trying to say. It has been your tactic of argument all along. Poking holes through semantics instead of trying to understand what the posters are trying to express. This is after all an international forum where English might not be everyone's first language.)
 
volk said:
:laugh:

Adelina was clearly superior technically. It's the second mark that is in question. But today Kim was very tight and Adelina had more attack.
Click to expand...

planned to have difficult jumps and execute planned jumps are two diffrent matters. sotnikova did not execute all her jumps; wrong edge lutz; two footed underrotated combination jumps. sotnikova is not polished skater like yuna, kostner and mao...she is not there yet. judges reward a junior level of performance over artistic mature quality performance...favoritism....
 
yuki said:
That wasn't really necessary, now, was it? :)

Say what you will about Adelina, but she does jump high. I saw her live a TEB last year and her 2A-3T is HUGE. It's quite refreshing to see among the Russian babies, many of which have tiny jumps
Click to expand...

You guys are terrored by camera angles by russia especially on jumping in Yuna's long program. Russia broadcasted throughout the world with their camera, yet nbc had their own camera to the U.S only.
Long program
nbc
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...search_pos=&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk
cbc
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...pos=-438130&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk

BONUS
Short Program
nbc
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxwLFo0a6PSQbGhTWE9rYmxoY1U/edit
cbc
http://vimeo.com/88149200
gala
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view...pos=-478130&s_type=search_name&s_keyword=xoQk
 
Nadya said:
To be able to put pressure on someone, you have to have something they want, or be able to hurt them. What can the federation do to Kim? She has no plans to continue competing. She has millions in the bank. She doesn't need them. THEY need HER.
Click to expand...

a lot..

figure skating is still thriving in korea even w/ yuna's success.. figure skating is not even popular in korea.. there's a big difference between yuna kim and figure skating in general.. and now she's gone..
 
cooper said:
.. there's a big difference between yuna kim and figure skating in general.. and now she's gone..
Click to expand...

Agree...yuna was like michael jordan. After mj was gone, basketball declined in skills and popularity for a while. The same thing could happen in fs.
 
Mathman said:
For instance, the study of the Italian physicist is based primarily on the assumption that a skater's PCSs should not go up very much from one competition to another. Well, sometimes they do. Statisticians don't like it, but there you are.
Click to expand...

That's why the guy looked at it for multiple skaters, and used past international competitions to compare them with. If it were a matter of the Olympic panel being nice for example, then most skaters would have had the same change in Olympic PCS compared with past competitions. The reason for using past international competitions (as opposed to national ones) is that they would be judged on the same basis, i.e. removing possible variation due to a national panel juicing its own skaters' scores for example. If there's a significant change in a skater's PCS compared with how much other skaters' PCS changed, then either the skater suddenly improved in long-term abilities such as artistry etc., or the judges were biased toward/against some skaters.
 
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