TT choreographed both MK's LP and a new SP

[Piel]

Who declared it open season on Red Dog? GS has always been a place where posters of different levels of knowledge of the sport have been welcome. :scratch:

 

[Mathman]

As usual, Piel makes the most sense.

Red Dog, here is what I like most about you. No matter what direction the topic turns, you never lose your temper. :agree:

Speaking of Piel making the most sense...

This kind of statement suggests that Kwan did not try to increase her technical level. I disagree. It seems that every skater takes the ice with the intent to skate the best program they are are physically capable of. I really think Kwan wants to land those 3/3 as much as Cohen would like to not fall and Irina would like to maintain a nice straight leg line in her spirals. Skaters can train and have the desire to improve but if their body won't, they can't. I don't think any athlete who has made it to this level gets there just by luck. These gals work HARD! I'm sure as much as we fans would like our favorites to do well the skaters want that even more.

This is so true. A lot of posts make it seem like it is some kind of character flaw not to be able to do a 3Lz/Lo.

"So-and-so is just lazy and stupid. Why can't she see that she needs a Bielmann into a triple Axel o be compettive under the CoP?!"

Believe me, all of these world class athletes are doing their utmost to excel. The reason we see mistakes is because they are continually pushing themselves to the maximum of what the human body is capable of.

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Red Dog, here is what I like most about you. No matter what direction the topic turns, you never lose your temper.

I try my best. Sometimes it's hard, but I try best to be as tactful as I can in all situations. Maybe doing that makes me a target for some posters to go after me, but I just want them to know that their comments won't make me change a thing.

 

[dancindiva03]

antmanb - I don't think she skated her best in Nagano. She skated beautifully as usual but she was the first to skate (always a bad position for her) and she held back just enough to skate perfectly which she did. BUT

Little Miss No Edges skated with a lot of pizzazz with a beautiful spiral on the flat down the diagonal of the arena, and she actually completed her consecutive loop jumps although the second one landed in a dead stop, she couldn't stop smiling and the roar of the crowd got her moving with delight. Ya had to give it to Patricia's daughter under the 6.0 system.

Although Michelle skated her very best in DC Worlds, she refused to up the technical level even to the point where in Moscow (2 Worlds later) she looked surprise at the technical scores and their influence on the PCS scores. Well, we live and learn, don't we.

One 3x3, imo won't do it but it is better than none. She's up against a determined Hi Technical skater!!! (Not unlike Tara!)

Joe

I agree, Michelle skated beautifully, but held back just a bit, enough to definitely look cautious which IMHO is not "perfect".

BUT I cannot agree with you about Tara. "Little Miss No Edges?????" She had fine edges. Her spirals were definitely on an edge, much moreso than, dare I mention, Sasha Cohen. Both pragrams in Nagano were fabulous, and IMHO no other skater had ever been more deserving of her Olympic gold medal.

 

[antmanb]

The newfound discussion of Tara in the 6.0 system vs. Cop prompts me to ask this question:

The system used in 1998 in determining the winner of a figure skating competition was the 6.0 system. Now, the system used in determining the winner of a figure skating competition is Cop, or NJS. So Tara won in 1998 under 6.0. Nobody even dreamed the system would change back then. So now to my question- why is this an issue? I hardly think a new standard would be any reason to question Tara's win or to raise doubts. JMO. I realize that we may not be going in this direction yet, but it sure seems like it to me.

I think its an interesting question though - and one that has come up before - how would skates from previous Olympics/Worlds fair under the CoP?

Interstingly i watched the top two pairs from SLC recently on tape and was surprised at how many CoP friendly moves i saw in the programs. Both pairs had interesting variations on the pivots/hand holds in their death spirals. S&Ps split twist where jamie keeps her hands over her head on the catch to show how true a catch it is. The lifts with changes of position. Both skaters had steps/field moves before big elements eg thrown jumps.

Just an interesting question while we're chomping at the bit for the senior international season to kick off!!

Ant

 

[mzheng]

The newfound discussion of Tara in the 6.0 system vs. Cop prompts me to ask this question:

The system used in 1998 in determining the winner of a figure skating competition was the 6.0 system. Now, the system used in determining the winner of a figure skating competition is Cop, or NJS. So Tara won in 1998 under 6.0. Nobody even dreamed the system would change back then. So now to my question- why is this an issue? I hardly think a new standard would be any reason to question Tara's win or to raise doubts. JMO. I realize that we may not be going in this direction yet, but it sure seems like it to me.

You have to read the post I respond to understand my point......the question is given another chance, would Tara sacrify her hip and trying out those 3/3/3 for an OGM under CoP? My answer is probably not....And there is no way she can prove it.

Since you asked a slightly diff question, say why it's issue. Don't forget some ppl here declear out right that MK will not win under new system that she can only win under 6.0 system.....Although she still has chance to prove it or not....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think anyone is questioning Tara's win. The question raised is worth musing about in the off season, but it would all be too moot to come to any real conclusion.

Joe

 

[gezando]

She (Tara) had fine edges. Her spirals were definitely on an edge, much moreso than, dare I mention, Sasha Cohen.

ITA, not to mention Tara at 15 had more speed on ice than Cohen 20 going on 21

Both pragrams in Nagano were fabulous, and IMHO no other skater had ever been more deserving of her Olympic gold medal.

I agree that Tara deserved her gold medal

 

[Excidra2001]

Unfortunately she only proved she could win only in 6.0. There is no way to tell if she really would try " If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it" under the CoP. Given her current hip condition and the ever changed stories from her camp; I doubt she'll try 3/3/3 to trade her hip for the OGM if gives another chance.

In that case, all past Olympic champions proved they could only win under the 6.0 system, not only Tara. One thing about Tara, she is so driven that if she was competing today, she'd be the one to beat.

 

[mzheng]

In that case, all past Olympic champions proved they could only win under the 6.0 system, not only Tara. One thing about Tara, she is so driven that if she was competing today, she'd be the one to beat.

Yeah knowing the relentless practice 3L/3L is the reason cause her hip injury. I doubt if given another chance she'll relentless practice 3/3/3. That's my point.

 

[millie]

Unfortunately she only proved she could win only in 6.0. There is no way to tell if she really would try " If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it" under the CoP. Given her current hip condition and the ever changed stories from her camp; I doubt she'll try 3/3/3 to trade her hip for the OGM if gives another chance.

Same goes for Kwan. So far she has proved that she can only win in 6.0. At least Tara won the OGM and I think that if she was skating today that she would win under the COP with no excuses.

 

[millie]

I try my best. Sometimes it's hard, but I try best to be as tactful as I can in all situations. Maybe doing that makes me a target for some posters to go after me, but I just want them to know that their comments won't make me change a thing.

Back at them Red Dog. You don't seem like a YES man or woman to me.

 

[mzheng]

Same goes for Kwan. So far she has proved that she can only win in 6.0. At least Tara won the OGM and I think that if she was skating today that she would win under the COP with no excuses.

I thought I already replied you in another thread. Kwan still has her chance to prove herself.....unlike Tara, zero chance with her hip injury, so you can go ahead speculate whatever you want, she won't be able to prove for you.......as for Kwan better wait until this season near end.

 

[R.D.]

You don't seem like a YES man or woman to me.

I am a man. (just so you know.)

 

[millie]

I thought I already replied you in another thread. Kwan still has her chance to prove herself.....unlike Tara, zero chance with her hip injury, so you can go ahead speculate whatever you want, she won't be able to prove for you.......as for Kwan better wait until this season near end.

I don't think that Tara has to prove anything to anybody anymore!! She already has proved herself in the eyes of the Olympic judges. Only time will tell with Kwan---If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, again.

 

[bdreampixie]

Only time will tell with Kwan---If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, again.

I wouldn't laugh so hard if I were a Sasha fan.

 

[mzheng]

I don't think that Tara has to prove anything to anybody anymore!! She already has proved herself in the eyes of the Olympic judges. Only time will tell with Kwan---If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, again.

Ops! Ignore!

I wouldn't laugh so hard if I were a Sasha fan.

I wouldn't call it a Sasha fan. More likely a Kwan hater. imo.

 

[millie]

Ops! Ignor!


I don't think it's a Sasha fan. Simply a Kwan hater, if you read the history of the posts.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY POST, DON'T READ THEM. I DON'T HATE KWAN OR ANYBODY ELSE. I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS. DO WE HAVE TO GET PERSONAL AND ATTACK EACH OTHER---I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FIGURE SKATING AND SKATERS, not the fans who post threads.

 

[mzheng]

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY POST, DON'T READ THEM. I DON'T HATE KWAN OR ANYBODY ELSE. I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS. DO WE HAVE TO GET PERSONAL AND ATTACK EACH OTHER---I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FIGURE SKATING AND SKATERS, not the fans who post threads.

Sorry to cause you scream like that. Cool down! hwell: (I won't buy you insurance).

 

[millie]

Sorry to cause you scream like that. Cool down! hwell: (I won't buy you insurance).

Sorry, didn't mean to scream, the Caps Lock got stuck on my computer.