Two articles about Turino (ones to watch)

[Lucy25]

Gee, do you think the media is going to put any pressure on Kimmie? She has a lot of competition to get that third spot, so it would have been nice if they were mentioned.

Michelle, Kimmie and Johnny mentioned:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12325632.htm

Michelle, Sasha, and Johnny mentioned:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0807olyoverview0807.html

 

[Vash01]

I could not read the first link. It required a sign up.

The second link was a local for me. Thanks for providing it. I don't subscribe to the AZ republic. Interesting mention of Johnny Weir "Fourth at the world championship on a sore foot". I think 4th place is creditable enough; no need to mention the injury. Many athletes compete with injuries. Noticeable absence from the list: current world bronze medalist Evan Lysacek. I do believe Evan has as much shot at an Olympic medal as Johnny (although I am a huge fan of Weir).

For once Michelle is not being taken for granted, so the pressure should be off her, and on to Sasha.

Vash

 

[Lucy25]

Sorry about the first link; for some reason I did not have to register to read it. I didn't see that Johnny was mentioned in this article, too, until I went back and reread it. This is what was listed about the skaters:

Quotes
Michelle Kwan, figure skating: Has won every major figure skating title but one -- an Olympic gold. She'll try to complete her Olympic collection -- silver in '98, bronze in '02 -- with that elusive medal.

Kimmie Meissner, figure skating: Remember Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes? Meissner, with her triple Axel, could be the next teammate to keep Michelle Kwan from the gold.

Johnny Weir, figure skating: The men's team should be strong with Weir leading the way, if he can stay healthy. Weir, skating on an injured foot, was fourth in Worlds as teammate Evan Lysacek took bronze.

 

[Mathman]

Kimmie Meissner, figure skating: Remember Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes? Meissner, with her triple Axel, could be the next teammate to keep Michelle Kwan from the gold.

She could, she could!! According to Cianni's practice reports on the other thread, Meissner is going to come out with triple Axel / triple toe, and triple Lutz / triple toe / triple loop, with an extra triple toe tacked on just for fun (no points for a fourth jump in a combo).

BTW, the ISU reorganized it's web site and now I can't find the list of vaules of different elements any more (like, 5.5 for a triple Lutz, etc.) Can anyone direct me to it?

 

[bronxgirl]

She could, she could!! According to Cianni's practice reports on the other thread, Meissner is going to come out with triple Axel / triple toe, and triple Lutz / triple toe / triple loop, with an extra triple toe tacked on just for fun (no points for a fourth jump in a combo).

BTW, the ISU reorganized it's web site and now I can't find the list of vaules of different elements any more (like, 5.5 for a triple Lutz, etc.) Can anyone direct me to it?

sorry that I can't help with the reorganized web site, but Kimmie had better not face the pubery monster before Turin if she plans on being able to whip around all of those jumps successfully. (JMHO) :frown2:

 

[attyfan]

So Johnnie (4th at Worlds) is more likely to medal than the reigining World bronze medalist? Someone should tell the writer that, as Alexei Urmanov and Sarah Hughes have proven -- reigning world bronze medalists have a better shot at gold than someone who has never been on the worlds podium before.

 

[JOHIO2]

Vash,

just a reminder that you DON'T have to register for any site if you go to BugMeNot and get a generic sign-in. Besides, who really wants all the trouble and spam, etc. of registering for sites you may only visit once or twice.

http://www.bugmenot.com/

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's a slow day at the Arizona Republic. The Chief Editor of the Sports Section tells one of his fledging reporters to rehash the US figure skating stories.
I've read all that before. Nothing new.

I don't know what the first link was (a publication, I presume) with absolutely nothing new to say that we didn't already know.

Every fan has their opinions of the figure skaters. Those reporters are not skating savvy.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

That is, nothing new for the skating fans. Remember that these articles are directed at the general public, who has no information about these events.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I am sorry but I find the thought of Kimmie being a serious threat for the gold in Turino completely laughable. In junior events she was only fighting for 3rd place vs Emily Hughes and several others. Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim were dominating her with ease, and Kim did not even have a triple axel as Kimmie does. She doesnt even have as strong a triple axel as Asada has, let alone all around skating anywhere near the best. Her fight is strictly to keep improving, and get the 3rd spot on the U.S team, that is it, anything more is a fantasy, the experience will do her good if she makes it, and her result will likely have the hype machine die down a bit, which would probably do her some good in the long run.

 

[Skate Sandee]

I am sorry but I find the thought of Kimmie being a serious threat for the gold in Turino completely laughable. In junior events she was only fighting for 3rd place vs Emily Hughes and several others. Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim were dominating her with ease, and Kim did not even have a triple axel as Kimmie does. She doesnt even have as strong a triple axel as Asada has, let alone all around skating anywhere near the best. Her fight is strictly to keep improving, and get the 3rd spot on the U.S team, that is it, anything more is a fantasy, the experience will do her good if she makes it, and her result will likely have the hype machine die down a bit, which would probably do her some good in the long run.

ITA. As we all know, landing jumps in practice is totally different than landing them in competition. And to inject Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinski as a means of comparison does a huge disservice to them. These writers forget that Tara was the reigning World Champion, and that Sarah had two years experience on the senior World scene with progressive steps upward in her results (and had beaten both Kwan and Slutskaya at Skate Canada that season). Short of the top 8 finishers from last year's Worlds getting injured or sick to the point they can't compete, I don't even see it as a realistic possibility that Kimmie could win it all. But I'm not surprised by the ignorance of these writers. And the hype never helps the skater.

 

[Ptichka]

Absolutely. While noone realistically expected Sarah to win, she hovered between #3 and #4 throught prior season. Now, if we'll have to eat our words come Turino... :frown2:

 

[pollyls]

Injury waiting to happen...

She could, she could!! According to Cianni's practice reports on the other thread, Meissner is going to come out with triple Axel / triple toe, and triple Lutz / triple toe / triple loop, with an extra triple toe tacked on just for fun (no points for a fourth jump in a combo).

Yikes. Instead of being impressed, I'm worried, reading this...how is she going to avoid permanent injury shooting for that level of technical difficulty?

I remember what Tim Goebel said in an interview recently -- "if you don't do it, somebody else will..." but I wish it didn't have to be that way. We've seen what happened to Tim, and Tara, and I sure hope younger skaters are learning from this.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's getting closer to competition time and everyone is jumping the gun on who are the contenders for a) Gold; b) Podium; or c) a wipe out.

I think Kimmie has to qualify to go to the Olys. Personally, I am hoping for Bebe but the way those American judges judge her it's kinda not going to happen.

In past Olys, skaters at their peak did not fare well. that's fact. whether this year, the judges will understand true maturity in the over 20 contestants, we just have to wait and see.

All the contestants will be under pressure for the once every 4 year happening.

1. Will Sasha skate her very best for what will probably be her last Olys?

2. MK wants a medal - any color. Will she make the podium?

3. Irina wants a win and be the first Russian Lady to win an Olympic Gold.

4. The whole of Italy will be there for Carolina. Will it affect her skate?

5. Will Shizuka redeem herself?

6. Will Fumie say, "I'm still here!"

The surprise winners may be among the following: Kimmie (if she qualifies to skate); Joannie Rochette; Susanna Poykio; Miki Ando; and Julia Sebestyen. (Remember 2002, Sarah would have been in this grouping.)

That makes 11 favorite skaters to win gold in Torino. Only 1 will, and it's 4 more years before there is another Oly.

Watch the GPs. Forget the judges. Think who is skating exceptionally well with a big improvement from last season. Those skaters are HOT!

Joe

 

[LegalGirl82]

BTW, the ISU reorganized it's web site and now I can't find the list of vaules of different elements any more (like, 5.5 for a triple Lutz, etc.) Can anyone direct me to it?

Mathman, the 2004 ISU Rules and Regs for Singles and Pairs are still there, as well as the separate listing for Ice Dance--left side of screen, ISU Rules on the home-page menu. For Singles and Pairs, the Values start on Page 29.

For the changes implemented in May of this year, go to ISU Communications (again, left side of screen, on the home-page menu). The Communications are listed chronologically, with the most recent being at the top of the page. Scroll down to ISU Communication #1319 for Single & Pair Rule Changes, and ISU Communication #1318 for Ice Dance Rule Changes.

In Singles and Pairs, the changes to Values start on Page 8 of Comm. 1319 and the Levels start on Page 14. There are new Values charts for Spins, Steps and Spirals in Singles, and for Side by Side Spins, Steps & Spirals, Lifts, Twist Lifts, Death Spirals and Pair Spins in Pairs.

Hope this helps.

 

[antmanb]

She could, she could!! According to Cianni's practice reports on the other thread, Meissner is going to come out with triple Axel / triple toe, and triple Lutz / triple toe / triple loop, with an extra triple toe tacked on just for fun (no points for a fourth jump in a combo).

BTW, the ISU reorganized it's web site and now I can't find the list of vaules of different elements any more (like, 5.5 for a triple Lutz, etc.) Can anyone direct me to it?

Mathman - no joy for me either - i just went to have a look and all the scale of values have disappeared...makes me suspicious as to whether there is some last minute tinkering going on. Surely this close to the start of the season they can't just start changing the COP could they? What about the skaters that have their programs ready early to get the advantage over the competition?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

It's getting closer to competition time and everyone is jumping the gun on who are the contenders for a) Gold; b) Podium; or c) a wipe out.

I think Kimmie has to qualify to go to the Olys. Personally, I am hoping for Bebe but the way those American judges judge her it's kinda not going to happen.

In past Olys, skaters at their peak did not fare well. that's fact. whether this year, the judges will understand true maturity in the over 20 contestants, we just have to wait and see.

All the contestants will be under pressure for the once every 4 year happening.

1. Will Sasha skate her very best for what will probably be her last Olys?

2. MK wants a medal - any color. Will she make the podium?

3. Irina wants a win and be the first Russian Lady to win an Olympic Gold.

4. The whole of Italy will be there for Carolina. Will it affect her skate?

5. Will Shizuka redeem herself?

6. Will Fumie say, "I'm still here!"

The surprise winners may be among the following: Kimmie (if she qualifies to skate); Joannie Rochette; Susanna Poykio; Miki Ando; and Julia Sebestyen. (Remember 2002, Sarah would have been in this grouping.)

That makes 11 favorite skaters to win gold in Torino. Only 1 will, and it's 4 more years before there is another Oly.

Watch the GPs. Forget the judges. Think who is skating exceptionally well with a big improvement from last season. Those skaters are HOT!

Joe

Of the ladies that you mention i don't think Fumie has a cat in hell's chance of even making the podium let alone winning the thing outright. Equally i think unless Susanna and Julia suddenly arrive at the start of the season as totally new skaters with new tricks/presentation then i think they're in the same boat as fumie. Julia's edge jumps go out of the window when she's got any level of pressure on her - the only time she held it together was with an Arena of screaming hungarians keeping her going. As a side note - any news on Pavuk? Hungary do get to send two skaters to the Olys don't they? How about her for a teen sensation with triple tripples coming out of her ears?

The one in the group tht you menion who i would compare most to Sarak is Miki Ando - she dominated the junior circuit and has shown that she can land some pretty tough jumps but its the presentation she needs to up. I've seen reports that she has been working hard on her presntation during the off season so i'm going to say that she's the type of skater that could do it - if she lands the quad sal and a triple/triple (like sarah doing her two 3/3s) then she could be the one pulling a hughes.

My guit feeling at this stage...one of the old guard (and in this i'm including Sasha) will finally beat the teenager at the olympics!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Mathman, the 2004 ISU Rules and Regs for Singles and Pairs are still there, as well as the separate listing for Ice Dance--left side of screen, ISU Rules on the home-page menu. For Singles and Pairs, the Values start on Page 29.

For the changes implemented in May of this year, go to ISU Communications (again, left side of screen, on the home-page menu). The Communications are listed chronologically, with the most recent being at the top of the page. Scroll down to ISU Communication #1319 for Single & Pair Rule Changes, and ISU Communication #1318 for Ice Dance Rule Changes.

In Singles and Pairs, the changes to Values start on Page 8 of Comm. 1319 and the Levels start on Page 14. There are new Values charts for Spins, Steps and Spirals in Singles, and for Side by Side Spins, Steps & Spirals, Lifts, Twist Lifts, Death Spirals and Pair Spins in Pairs.

Hope this helps.

Thanks legal girl - you're absolutely right - i was looking for the "scale of values" document that i had seen previously. Just to help here's the link for the document, and as legal girl says go to page 29 and all the jump and spin points are set out there and on page 30 too.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-168617-185835-80283-0-file,00.pdf

Ant

 

[Mathman]

Thanks, LegalGirl. Gosh, a person really has to be an expert to keep up with the ISU web site.

On the other hand, on two different occasions I emailed them from the site to ask a question, and both times they shot an answer right back. So I do think that the ISU is trying to do its public relations bit.

Ant, oh, I totally disagree about Fumie I think she is the strongest of the three probable Japanese entrants (Fumie, Shizuka and Miki). I think she has the best basic skating skills and a unique balance of finesse and power. To me, she could easily land on the podium.

Could Kimmie really be a factor? She was third in the U.S. last year at 15 -- why wouldn't she be looking to move up a notch or two? What if she went into the Olympics as the American champion? Now that I have the scale of values back inb hand, LOL (thanks again, LegalGirl), I see that her first two combinations -- 3A/3T and 3L/3T/3L -- will net her 26.5 points right there!

Mathman

 

[attyfan]

...
Could Kimmie really be a factor? She was third in the U.S. last year at 15 -- why wouldn't she be looking to move up a notch or two? What if she went into the Olympics as the American champion? Now that I have the scale of values back inb hand, LOL (thanks again, LegalGirl), I see that her first two combinations -- 3A/3T and 3L/3T/3L -- will net her 26.5 points right there!

Mathman

If Kimmie is to play the role of "underdog jumper who takes gold", she can't go in as US champ. IMO, if Kimmie (or Cohen) goes in as US Champ, the chances of Kwan getting the OGM will skyrocket.