two questions on CHOREOGRAPHY...

[sarahmistral]

1--Besides Sasha (only one I know of), which singles and pair (don't want to include Christopher Dean, in a league of his own already--there's nothing unusual about him choreographing his own programs ) skaters, past and present, have either choreographed or collaborated in choreographing their own programs at some point in their careers?

2--Before I get too happy, does all the CoP-related speculation on the thread on Shizuka, Sasha, and Michelle mean, at least potentially, that, if all coaches adopt a strategy similar to Tarasova's vis-a-vis milking CoP points, we'll see more intricate choreography all around?

Sarah

 

[Mathman]

#1 is an interesting question. I would guess that the farther any skater goes in his or her career the more active the skater becomes in working with the choreographer. Michelle choreographed her own 1998 Olympic exhibition number, in honor of a friend who had died.

I, too, am getting happy about #2. I think the answer is yes. Everyone will have to conform their programs to the requirements of the CoP or get left behind by those who do.

Mathman

 

[Ladskater]

Kurt Browning, Brian Orser, Toller Cranston.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

For me, the Choreographer lays out the the program. It's up to the skater to pesent it to the judges (audience). Of course, a seasoned skater will revamp the program for ease of flow.

I hope not. I'm all for skaters looking their best. I find some routines much too busy. As an example, I would cite Irina's programs. She goes from one trick to the next constantly and there are just too many tricks and nothing more in between except posings. I think if your question answers yes, then we will be in for lots of tricks and little skating as I enjoy it. But hey, that's just me and the Technical score needs those tricks. I don't.

Joe

 

[Ogre Mage]

2--Before I get too happy, does all the CoP-related speculation on the thread on Shizuka, Sasha, and Michelle mean, at least potentially, that, if all coaches adopt a strategy similar to Tarasova's vis-a-vis milking CoP points, we'll see more intricate choreography all around?

Sarah

Under the ordinal system, there is a heavy emphasis on jumps. What I am hoping for the CoP is a greater emphasis on the entire program. I like to watch the jumps too, but they are most effective for me when they are meshed INTO the choreography, rather than building a program which is just moving from jump to jump.

I see Joe's point also, that sometimes the choreography can actually get TOO intricate and result in an over-busy program. Sarah Hughes' programs usually came across to me this way -- the excess of movements made me dizzy and many moves looked sloppy. Perhaps with slightly fewer moves and more attention paid to each one, her programs might have been better.

At the other end of the spectrum there is the "empty program" problem, as evidenced by Sasha and Michelle's LPs at Worlds this year. The challenge is to find a balance between the two extremes which effectively captures the spirit of the music. Some pieces of music will call for more choreography than others.

 

[Ptichka]

skaters, past and present, have either choreographed or collaborated in choreographing their own programs at some point in their careers?

Gretchuk did a lot of choreography for herself and Platov.
A lot of skaters choreograph their programs when they go pro; with various success.

2-- if all coaches adopt a strategy similar to Tarasova's vis-a-vis milking CoP points, we'll see more intricate choreography all around?

I don't think so. Certainly, there will be more emphasize on non-jump elements. That's footwork, spins, and spirals. OK, that's great. However, we are yet too see the judges really giving a fair mark for "moves in the field" (as has been noted many times, judges tend to give similar components scores across the board).

Let's face it, Tarasova is one of the better coaches in the world. Her strong suit specifically is hiding what the skater does not do well, and emphasizing the strong points. In other words, the Swan Lake was IMHO the perfect program for Sasha, but would not have been right for other skaters. The problem with many other choreographers such as Giuseppe Arena for example is that he tends to disregard what skater(s) he choreographs for.

Anyway, getting back to the subject. My fear is that unless judges will really crack down on the "moves in the field" mark, it will just be skating from one element to the next. I mean, what's the point doing anything more difficult than crossovers if that will not dramatically effect the score.

 

[lulu]

Besides the skaters mentioned, other skaters who also choreographed their own programs/or helped choreograph their own programs include: Maria Butyrskaya, Dmitri Dmichenko(Spelling ), Artur Dmitriev helped Moskvina with his choreography, Michelle Kwan did a program for herself I believe and I want to say Gary Beacom to-but can't think of any examples.

 

[rjulie510]

Skaters who choreograph their programs

Ilia Kulik used to choreograph his exhibitions during his eligible days. I think he choreographed pretty much all his pro routines.
NNN used to take a part choreographing her programs with coach John Nicks.

 

[berthes ghost]

John Curry and Robin Cousins.

 

[floskate]

True Berthes ghost. Robin always did his own choreography from a very early age.

Little titbit. John Curry took 20 minutes to choreograph Don Quixote and in his first runthrough the same day did a flawless skate!!!

 

[JOHIO2]

The obvious "self-choreographers:"

Surya Bonaly and Gary Beacom!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Whoever does the choreography, it is the skater who accepts it and has to present it to the judges.

I am not sure but I believe jumps have the highest base points for scoring the routine. So emphasis on jumps is inevitable. Yet there are plenty of other moves which make up a routine which could keep the jumps in check.

I have to reiterate that filling up the routine with all sorts of elements with a disregard to the music is lousy choreography. Will the judges notice this? I doubt it. I think the judges will consider the number of triples a skater executes as the baseline for selecting a champion. Most posters also count the number of triples and quads as the most important ingredients for a winner.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

The jumps will always be important, of course, but I think instead of "overly busy choreography" the CoP rewards thing like unusual entrances into jumps, instead of just a long continuous edge the length of the ice. This can only help to make more interesting programs, IMO.

Mathman

 

[Gardenkitty]

I believe that Johnny Weir choreographed his Imagine exhibition this year. Peter T. choreographed John and Kyoko's SOI number this year (which isn't really what you asked, but I just thought I'd throw that in because it gives me a chance to think about PeterT!)

 

[icenut84]

IIRC Barbara Fusar-Poli also did at least some of their choreography.

 

[~tibia venifica~]

Um... Hello everyone! Just to add my voice I'll ask: wasn't Evgeni's Carmen choreographed by himself? I always thought so!

 

[Gipson]

Re: Re: two questions on CHOREOGRAPHY...

I don't think so. Certainly, there will be more emphasize on non-jump elements. That's footwork, spins, and spirals. OK, that's great. However, we are yet too see the judges really giving a fair mark for "moves in the field" (as has been noted many times, judges tend to give similar components scores across the board).

Let's face it, Tarasova is one of the better coaches in the world. Her strong suit specifically is hiding what the skater does not do well, and emphasizing the strong points. In other words, the Swan Lake was IMHO the perfect program for Sasha, but would not have been right for other skaters. The problem with many other choreographers such as Giuseppe Arena for example is that he tends to disregard what skater(s) he choreographs for.

Anyway, getting back to the subject. My fear is that unless judges will really crack down on the "moves in the field" mark, it will just be skating from one element to the next. I mean, what's the point doing anything more difficult than crossovers if that will not dramatically effect the score.

Maybe there should be judges that only look at certain elements, like a few judges concentrate on jumps while others only mark moves in the field, that way no element is overlooked.

 

[wvgal57]

Irina chooses all of her own music and she did most all of the choreography of her Olympic short program "Serenade". I understand she also choreographed "Shine".

 

[Ptichka]

Um... Hello everyone! Just to add my voice I'll ask: wasn't Evgeni's Carmen choreographed by himself? I always thought so!

I don't think so. I think Mishin is the final word on all of Evgeni's choreography. Besides, he also works with Kirov Ballet choreographers.

 

[mariana]

I think that Peter Tchernyshev help with the coreo from Anytime-Anywhere