U.S. Ladies Prediction & Speculation Thread

[Blades of Passion]

Unfortunately talent is pretty evenly distributed at birth. It doesn't matter how ignorant you later grow up to be.

 

[Mathman]

It is a common belief that Tonya knew about the attack ahead of time, or even ordered it. I have never encountered evidence to this effect.

If I remember correctly, one suspicious circumstance was that Tonya called Nancy's training camp in Massachusetts some time before the attack to inquire about details of Nancy's schedule. The "hit man" subsequently went to Massachusettes to carry out the attack, but did not have an opportunity at that time.

Harding entered into a plea bargain with federal prosecutors whereby she would plead guilty to helpng to covering up the crime afterward and hindering FBI investigations, in exchange for the feds dropping charges of being involved in the conspicacy beforehand.

Jeff Gillooly, in his plea bargaining, gave testimony against Harding as well as against the other people involved, in exchange for a lighter sentence.

The USFSA conducted its own investigation and concluded (I don't know on what evidence) that Harding did have prior knowledge of the attack. This is what she was suspended from skating for.

 

[bekalc]

Often, writers tend to refer to the "whack" as just a dramatic incident, but that's only because Nancy recovered. Just by sheer luck and an inch or less, she escaped dreadful permanent injury and the probability of grueling reconstructive surgery and rehabilitation. I still remember how frightening it was to hear of when it was first reported. This is the injury gangsters used to inflict on people they wanted to take out of commission. And it was done to a girl in her twenties. I remember how incensed I was that Saturday Night Live made a skit out of Nancy's howls of agony, which happened to be recorded for posterity. I guess the comedians felt that she didn't meet their standards of behavior during an assault.

Amen that Whack could have destroyed Nancy's Olympic dreams/entire career. And its actually even more sickening because Tonya WAS such a tremendous talent and the main thing about Tonya is that the girl just never was willing to train enough. Sure she got treated poorly at times by the USFSA but still.

One weird thing Olympia is when your talking about feelings. I remember watching Nationals that year and I was kind of a Tonya fan a bit, I remember liking she skated to the Robinhood soundtrack. Maybe I'm wrong there I know it wasn't in 94. So I wasn't predisposed to hate Tonya at 13. But I remember after her free skate I think they asked her about the Nancy incident, and I remember looking at my mom and her friend and saying that something about what Tonya was saying felt off and I wonder if she had been involved. (Seriously!)

 

[Blades of Passion]

I remember how incensed I was that Saturday Night Live made a skit out of Nancy's howls of agony, which happened to be recorded for posterity. I guess the comedians felt that she didn't meet their standards of behavior during an assault.

The whack was funny afterwards because Nancy Kerrigan is such an uptight, prissy, ***** that everyone secretly wants to see put in her place.

Or you can look at as: Comedy = tragedy + time

 

[janetfan]

Here is a look back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T09XWRkq5M

It became such a big deal that it was bound to be parodied by somebody.

I might rather equate it this way: averted tragedy + time = comedy

The "whack heard round the world" was reported so relentlessly that it became part of Pop culture. At that point all of the leading characters became fair game.

Here is one that feels pretty harmless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTu0HT_hXnw&p=5168013B8C8C027A&playnext=1&index=51

And yes, Tonya even made Letterman's "TopTen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRkX1LWpShY

 

[Olympia]

No, to this day I can't watch such a thing in fun. Not now. Not ever.

Bekalc, your reaction at the time is very interesting. Clearly you picked up on something. Ironically, I was in the process of writing to another skater with whom I was in contact, and I strongly recall praising Tonya's skating, which was very smooth and powerful the night of the long program. Thank goodness for once my procrastination worked in my favor: I put the letter aside and had not mailed it by the time the news came out of who had assaulted Kerrigan. I tore it up (the days of snail mail).

As you say, Tonya didn't always train well--the same problem as those two other naturally talented skaters, Bowman and Bobek. I hope that someday we see a lady skater with Tonya's power and finesse but with the work ethic of someone more like Kwan, Yamaguchi, or Lysacek. That would be a sight to behold. Patriotism causes me to wish that this theoretical skater will be an American, but for someone with those gifts, I'd cheer wherever she comes from!

 

[Mathman]

The whack was funny afterwards because Nancy Kerrigan is such an uptight, prissy, ***** ...

Bad rap. She is nothing like that in real life.

 

[janetfan]

Bad rap. She is nothing like that in real life.

I think by the time the Olympics finaly came around many might have been suffering from "Nancy/Tonya fatigue."
I sometimes wonder if the ISU /judges felt it too and thought anybody but Nancy or Tonya winning the OGM would be desirable.

My biggest hope by the time I was convinced of Tonya's guilt was that US Skating would be able to suspend her and that little Michelle would have been able to skate in Lillehamer.

Wouldn't that have been something

 

[Olympia]

Bad rap. She is nothing like that in real life.

Thank you so much, Mathman!



And, yes, Janetfan, I remember hoping like anything that Michelle would get to skate in Lillehammer. She spent most of her time in a practice rink in Norway, near enough to be ready without jet lag, and very good-humored about the situation--better-humored than most skating fans, I'd judge.

Kwan did all right for us later that year, though, as I recall. Neither Tonya (of course) nor Nancy went to the Worlds, leaving only the inconsistent Nicole Bobek and Michelle, both alternates that year. (Remember, we had only two spots for Olympics.) Nicole did very badly. The U.S. needed at least one top ten finish to have even two spots on the world team the following year. As I recall, Michelle came in eighth. She was just thirteen years old at the time. (The age rule came later.)

If anything (in addition to her actual skating excellence!) explains why I am a fan of hers, that Worlds does. At that moment, she carried the entire U.S. worlds ladies team on her back. Did pretty well at the task, too.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Bad rap. She is nothing like that in real life.

Very much disagreed.

 

[chipso1]

There is an old joke.................
What is the difference between a Yankee Stadium hotdog and a Fenway Park hotdog?
You can have a Yankee Stadium hotdog in November.

Yes, Mirai has grace, beauty, elegance, athleticism. She has all those qualities.
Can any USA Lady skate at this level? The following day, apparently not. :disapp:

Oh please. That program was better than anything Caroline has ever done. How did Zhang place in her first Worlds? Oh, wait...

I love both Zhang and Nagasu, but let's not discount what Mirai did in Torino. 7th place at Worlds coming off a long Olympic season is more than respectable, and she has clearly established herself as the top U.S. lady at the moment.

 

[R.D.]

yeah, but I beg to differ with the way she did it...oh well, sigh. what are you gonna do.

 

[Mathman]

My biggest hope by the time I was convinced of Tonya's guilt was that US Skating would be able to suspend her and that little Michelle would have been able to skate in Lillehamer.

Wouldn't that have been something

I have always wondered how it would have worked out. Maybe if Michelle had skated in Lillihammer, possibly getting a top ten, she could have drawn on that experience four years later to win in Nagano. Then she might have retired from competition, toured a year or two with SOI, gone to college and on with her life.

Instead, she came up just short in Nagano, stayed in for four more years and then another four, got herself invited to the White House (when President Bush needed a charming and accomplished Chinese-American girl to chat up the President of China on a state visit), got in tight with Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, and decided to study international law and diplomacy.

 

[Olympia]

Yeah, Math, the further away we get from 1998, the more I realize that Tara's victory was a blessing in disguise for Michelle fans and for Michelle as well. I hadn't thought of it as leading to the State Department position, but the way you put it, I think you're right. If she'd had a short, uncomplicated eligible career capped by the OGM, she'd have been just another skating champ, gold medal notwithstanding. But her career trajectory, not to mention her gracious reaction to, as she said, winning the silver (not losing the gold) made her unique. In addition, that incredible flowering of a mature artist that occurred from 1998 to 2003. a direct gift of Tara's win, made her an internationally acclaimed skater far beyond what a simple Olympic Gold would have done for her reputation, I think. That surely added to her attractiveness to President Bush when he was looking for someone to invite to the White House that day.

I'd still have loved to see her skate on Olympic ice in Lillehammer. It would have made for a wonderful, upbeat moment.

 

[R.D.]

Things happen for a reason. If it was meant to be, it would have happened already. so be it.

 

[bekalc]

One thing I do think is that Michelle should be named the 94 National champion. I think that's really only fair. Although maybe Michelle wouldn't want that, since Tonya WAS there and did out skate her. I don't know.

Yeah, Math, the further away we get from 1998, the more I realize that Tara's victory was a blessing in disguise for Michelle fans and for Michelle as well

Not only that but the talk about Tara waiting her turn and getting another chance, probably wasn't going to happen either. With Tara's hip injuries. Michelle DID get another shot at the OGM. In the end, I truly believe Tara's not the reason Michelle's not an OGM, I really think it was that decision to go coachless.

I was so disappointed for Michelle when she lost in Nagano (fell in love with her in 94 because she was my age, but my love cooled around 2002) And for years I couldn't even look at Tara's Olympic skate. But now with the benefit of hindsight especially Tara's injury, I was able to appreciate Tara's win and skate. Tara goes to show that you take the opportunities that life gives you NOW, because there are no future guarantees.

 

[janetfan]

I wish we would have seen this in Lillehammer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hnVEfLmAuA&feature=related

I think she would have brought the house down.

 

[Olympia]

Bekalc, I think that unfortunately you're right about the 2002 OGM. Why Michelle chose that moment to go coachless will remain one of the unexplainable mysteries of skating. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. But that's life, I guess. She has had many other compensations in her life, for sure. We can't feel bad for someone who has had perhaps the most glittering skating career of the past half century.

I had never considered the thought of stripping Tonya of the championship and awarding it to the silver medalist, Michelle. Wouldn't that be something. Among other things, she'd be the undisputed U.S. National record holder, instead of sharing the record with Maribel Vinson Owen.

 

[PolymerBob]

I think if Tonya had been stripped of the title on the spot, it would have gone to Miss Silver. But she was stripped months later. Who wants to receive a gold medal Federal Express? The thrill is standing on the podium and having somebody hang it around your neck.

 

[R.D.]

I think if Tonya had been stripped of the title on the spot, it would have gone to Miss Silver. But she was stripped months later. Who wants to receive a gold medal Federal Express? The thrill is standing on the podium and having somebody hang it around your neck.

Tell that to the 2000 US gymnastics team.

But honestly...I can't believe some of the stuff is being rehashed- what's happened has happened, and for good reason. MK doesn't need any more medals, nor an OGM- she has had an impressive career without those things. And maybe some Kwanfans should consider that even if she DID win in 98 (or '02), her career maybe wouldn't have lasted as long as it did? How easy would it have been to just walk away after Nagano, or at the very least lose motivation? Look at Yuna now. I bet any poster here any amount of money they'd like that if she did not win in Vancouver, she'd be pressing full-steam ahead towards Sochi. Instead, we get this cloud of doubt- she claims she has a new coach, she's moving but still has a lot of distractions.

Sometimes I think some fans refuse (or are unable) to see things from that perspective. Sigh...