They always have been liked, but they often make mistakes. This time i will givce them some slack, due to Sinead recent injury, which most likely prevented them to train for sometime, but thye better not do this type of errors at Euros or Worlds.
Virtual Program and Preview Free Dance, Sunday, Oct 31, 12:15 EST
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They always have been liked, but they often make mistakes. This time i will givce them some slack, due to Sinead recent injury, which most likely prevented them to train for sometime, but thye better not do this type of errors at Euros or Worlds.
beep_beep has a habit to dismiss everything made in Canada. I don't even oay any attention anymore, it is just obvious.
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Interesting protocols. Crone/Poirier have places to grow, but they really impressed me. Great start for Paul/Islam. I really think Arnold/Trojek deserved more PCS. It woudn't have changed their overall position, but they deserved higher marks.
I liked Paul/Islam's program but it's definitely a re-tread stylistically-speaking. Even though Alexandra looks a bit like Tessa, I feel like her positions and the energy and articulation of her arms in particular are even better than Tessa's. I always feel that Tessa while a beautiful girl has limp hand and wrist expression- especially when she's doing a classical or slow number.
Tessa and Scott are of course miles ahead of this team in terms of maturity, skating skills, and ability to skate as a couple but there were spots where I could see Paul/Islam holding their own in the future.
I really, really liked Chock/Zuerlein's FD. It was a change of pace from everyone else's programs. The only one that was comedic and character driven. If they continue to work on it, it will be a big fight between them and the Shibutanis for that #2 spot behind Davis/White this year.
Tessa and Scott are of course miles ahead of this team in terms of maturity, skating skills, and ability to skate as a couple but there were spots where I could see Paul/Islam holding their own in the future.
I really, really liked Chock/Zuerlein's FD. It was a change of pace from everyone else's programs. The only one that was comedic and character driven. If they continue to work on it, it will be a big fight between them and the Shibutanis for that #2 spot behind Davis/White this year.
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Luckily, the USA has three spots at worlds. Definitely a relief.
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- Nov 3, 2006
Thank You Christopher Dean ! for giving Vanessa and Paul such a wonderful vehicle (and for very likely having some input into the costumes ) I'm so relieved and happy for these kids , I was almost tearing up..Sad for the Kerrs.. I really found a lot to like in their program. I hope their problems didn't have a thing to do with her injury. I'm looking forward to seeing it next time out, and hope it's a standout for them at Euro's.
I do like C/Z's program a lot. It was so hard to get a proper sense of it from the practice..even though they did a full run through.Still don't like his pockets, but at least he put them away , this time. ( at practice he left them out for the rest of the program and it was quite distracting ) I'm sure I'll like it even better when they get it all smoothed out.
I thought P/I deserved their FD placement ( good for them ) and it makes their SD slip seem all the more unfortunate. They're smooth and polished and really look comfortable at the senior level. Her grace is exquisite.
I think T/B hold a lot of promise for the future..and really liked A/T's floaty FD.
G/B were quite scrambly , I thought, and he doesn't quite seem up to her standard. I like the look of them as a couple . Found their costumes too busy, but at least well cut and a nice fit.
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- Aug 3, 2007
Yeah, you just saw me bashing C/P big time...
I'm not saying P/I were bad... I just don't like lovey dovey (even on V/M), and I'm a big fan of the Kerrs.
The Kerrs must have felt it, to lose on the FD to such a young team, but they made a lot of mistakes.
Please read the posts better (you'll also see that I liked MT/M FS, I just didn't think it was better than I/M at all).
I don't agree with scoring a lot of times, with teams from many other countries.
I don't think it's plausible to agree with everyone all the time, you have your opinions, and I have mine.
But calling me Canadian basher was a little too strong...
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- Sep 1, 2007
I should have known that the second a Canadian team came out doing a lyrical piece of music they would be written off as Virtue and Moir copycats.:disapp: Seriously, guys? Just because Alexandra is balletic and Mitchell is a good, strong, expressive partner DOES NOT mean that these two are copying Virtue and Moir. Yes, Alexandra has a lot of the same qualities as Tessa, but she's a ballet dancer for crying out loud. What do you expect her extensions to look like? And can we really fault them for looking physically like Tessa and Scott?? I thought they were BRILLIANT tonight, and they definately deserved that score. They've got all of those qualities that can't be taught, and I think they are going to have a really great future in the senior international ranks. They just drew me in, and I can't believe that this is the first time that they have ever competed as seniors. They've never even been to a senior national championship. Wow!
As for Crone and Poirier, I was thrilled that they won, but I can honestly say that for the first time, a program of theres didn't thrill me, and I really wish that it had. That being said, I was distracted by the fact that they were dressed like power rangers, so maybe I'll like it better once I get over the shock of those costumes. Still, their technique is stunning, and I think they'll have a great year. All in all, a wonderful Skate Canada dance event!
As for Crone and Poirier, I was thrilled that they won, but I can honestly say that for the first time, a program of theres didn't thrill me, and I really wish that it had. That being said, I was distracted by the fact that they were dressed like power rangers, so maybe I'll like it better once I get over the shock of those costumes. Still, their technique is stunning, and I think they'll have a great year. All in all, a wonderful Skate Canada dance event!
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- Jun 3, 2009
But it's not just this program. It's the costuming (aping V/M's Mahler). It's their OD last season (Flamenco). It's the SD this season (a tango - V/M's debut OD was also a Tango). It's not just here. I'm not writing them off. They're clearly very talented. But can you think of another junior team that so closely resembles a senior team? I guess I'm overstating things, but I'd argue all the similarities you posit means they should work hard at being different, not the same.
mishieru07, there are enough differences from 2006/07 to now that suggest that the vets need not worry (except the Kerrs, I have to add). I also think that there's a lot of stuff in the way of the rising juniors beyond the vets before that happens. Top ten is likely for one of them, but not all of them.
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I'm not trying to say that they don't look like Virtue and Moir...it was one of the first things that I noticed about them. But why should they have to restrict the styles that they try because they might risk looking like Virtue and Moir? In two seasons together, they've done a flamenco, a tango, a Persian folk piece and this lyrical Casablanca FD. If anything, I think they are trying out a lot of different styles to see what works for them. Are we seriously going to complain that they chose to do a tango like Virtue and Moir did in their debut season at seniors? Because if we are, then these two will never be able to do anything without being accused on copying Virtue and Moir...let's face it, Virtue and Moir have doen just about every style out there. If Paul and Islam come out in a few years skating to rock music, I can just see people making a big deal because their program looks a bit like Virtue and Moir's Pink Floyd. Really, they have as much right to artistic freedom as any other team that doesn't happen to physically look like V/M and skate with the same amazing qualities.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Tanith said very much the same that this is the perfect time for them to play with their style and see what suits them. Can't fault them for that. Physically they make you do a double take, but it ends there for me. Where it took me forever and a day to "get" Tessa and Scott, I like this team more. I'm still not all that warm to V/M.
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- Jun 3, 2009
I guess we just disagree. I don't think they would suffer by doing rock - it's not as if V/M own rock. I'm not denying their artistic freedom, but if they chose to invite the comparison (which they are) I think it stands to reason I'll evaluate them in part on that invitation. And I don't think it's a good idea.
Tonichelle, them's fighting words
Truthfully, I'm that way about the Kerrs, though, so we all have those blindspots.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Tonichelle, them's fighting words
I don't "get" the Kerrs, either. Just not my cup of tea. John is attractive, but that's about it.
I did like Tessa and Scott's free last year, though.
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- Jul 26, 2003
This is very true. BTW, it is also true that C&Z's SD is one of the better ones IMO this year. Piaf works really well for this concept (Is it Monko/Khavalian knocking the JGP dead with Piaf also in the SD?) C&Z would have been higher in the SD, were it not that their lift got called level1 for some reason. Probably not enough rotations in each position or something. D&W had the same thing happen in SC back in 2008, I think in the FD. A normally level4 lift was level 1, due to the way the levels collapse with one insignificant error). I think C&Z are giving it a really serious try this year. Last year they appeared defeated before they even began to skate, particularly in their (as I call it) Leisure Suit Larry Goes to Cuba OD.
There's no doubt that this could be a problem, particularly for the Kerrs and F&S, two teams where the dancers are the same size. That makes it particularly hard to do lifts that will really score, and even small changes are a problem. Both teams are somewhat error prone too, but usually are vastly better by Euros than they are on the GP. Unfortunately, when you let a team beat you on the GP, that ranking seems to last. Bob/Sol are not really veterans, though. They are sort of middle aged
and they haven't had problems getting levels, AFAIR, the problem is not having programs that grab the audience, not having enough speed, and making errors.
I'm so happy for Vanessa and Paul, I think he is an amazing ice dancer! I really like this program, I stared to pay more antention on them at last year Worlds, they improved so much over the seaosn...hopefully they will do the same this year. I don't like their costumes...I hope they change .
I'm not a big fan of the kerrs but their FD is beatfull, very "old school" in a good way.
P/I are very much like V/M rigth now but I think they are very talent skaters.
.I'm not a big fan of the kerrs but their FD is beatfull, very "old school" in a good way.
P/I are very much like V/M rigth now but I think they are very talent skaters.
North American dance teams look really strong. Think Crone & Poirer will make top 5 at Worlds this year. If V&M come back for the rest of the season, it will be a real battle for that third spot on the world team. Same for US with Samuelson & Bates likely out this season, there will be a battle for that third spot. We haven't seen the Hubbells yet - they dance next week in China. Kerrs are always fun and should medal at Euros. Faella & Scali yet to compete - they will be in China as well along with Pechalat & Bourzat, Hoffman & Zavozin and Bobrova/Soloviev. Should be quite competitive.
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- Nov 3, 2006
Oh, I can't totally agree with the" P/I are too much like V/M thing ", even though I know where it's coming from, and a bit of that is going to be inevitable anyway. I too , have had reservations about her dress since back at Thornhill. But if you think about it ..their choreography is not like Z/S choreography and all they really need to do ( and should IMO) is just change her dress. Give her something a little more 40's and in a deeper pastel or jewel tone.I can understand completely that they want to show off their lines first time out, and how better to do that than with a romantic program.I'll have to re-watch but I think the dance itself already has slightly earthier overtones than V/M...( well, their choreography is by D/L)
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- Jul 26, 2003
The other thing P/I should work on is their technique on their second set of twizzles. One or both of them does all three turns instead. The hopping was quite noticeable when I rewatched their FD on US this evening. If one of the pickier tech specialists picks up on it, that would, AFAIR, drop the twizzles to level 1, because the second set doesn't count.
It's odd that P/I do that, as D&L had the same flawed technique in one direction, but like flutzing in the same era, no one deducted for it.
These days, the tech specialists are grading closer to the rules.
BTW, re C&P's music, it definitely was my feed at fault. The dance looked much better on the big screen.
However, the costumes, not so much. I really like the red dress on Vanessa, but they should remove that furry sporran looking mass from the front of it. It just messes up her nice lines. I don't like the blue on Paul at all, but a similar simple costume in black would show off their positions just as well as blue, without the unfortunate effect of causing me to wonder whether a coach all in white was awaiting them in the KnC so they could all impersonate the French flag.
It's odd that P/I do that, as D&L had the same flawed technique in one direction, but like flutzing in the same era, no one deducted for it.
These days, the tech specialists are grading closer to the rules.
BTW, re C&P's music, it definitely was my feed at fault. The dance looked much better on the big screen.
However, the costumes, not so much. I really like the red dress on Vanessa, but they should remove that furry sporran looking mass from the front of it. It just messes up her nice lines. I don't like the blue on Paul at all, but a similar simple costume in black would show off their positions just as well as blue, without the unfortunate effect of causing me to wonder whether a coach all in white was awaiting them in the KnC so they could all impersonate the French flag.
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- Oct 23, 2009
ImaginaryPogue, I'm a huge V/M fan like you but really we should cut P/I a little slack!! V/M didn't exactly have a choice for the OD in 06-07, the sole theme was tango IIRC. So far, we've seen many many odd tango-waltz hybrid SDs this season; they're not alone in this. Last season, all 3 top Canadian teams chose the flamenco for some reason too. If lyrical works for them, then so be it. As new seniors, they really need to start off on the right foot and do a programme that plays to their strengths. It's a lovely FD regardless, so good for them!
If V/M do plan on competing at Worlds, I imagine they'd get a bye through Nationals if need be. Competition is going to be intense at Canadian Nationals between C/P, P/I and W/P for the other 2 spots, with R/H possibly playing spoiler. I don't see Skate Canada not sending the reigning World and Olympic champions unless they opt to take a longer break.
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- Jul 26, 2003
If V&M don't compete at Worlds, and P/I are on the World team (or if they are at 4CC's and V&M aren't there), it isn't a problem if they are deliberately channelling V&M. The problem would come if both teams are at the same competition and one looks like a pale copy of the other. At the very least, Paul should not be wearing what appears to be Virtue's old costume.
It's like when two girls go to the prom in the exact same gown. It doesn't work very well, but it's worse for the one who isn't as popular/as pretty/as skilled. It's worse when the less popular girl is wearing the popular girl's cast off last year's prom dress.
BTW, this was one of the problems when D&W and DomShabs were both doing Polovetsian Dances-but in that case it was the worse for DomShabs as well, because comparisons with the younger team were not all positive for DomShabs. DomShabs were less technical, but D&W had poorer extension and ownership of the ice.
Also, again solely IMO, I'm not crazy about ballet infiltrating ice dance that much. If you want to be an ice ballerina and do a pas de deux, the best place is in pairs to classical music. Ice Dance is also about timing, rhythm, and character of the music and the dance that is being portrayed. Ballet flourishes just get in the way of that, in most dances. Who wants to see a polka with ballet arms and wrists and hands and pointed toes? Who wants to see jazz done by a ballerina? The result is comic, as Rahkamo and Kokko perceived and took advantage of in their "Funny Ballerina" FD.
There are ballet-appropriate ice dances. If you are, as I&K are doing, "Don Quixote" with the ballet's music by Minkus, by all means that is super appropriate for ice dance. It is a legitimate style. But not a legitimate style for rock and roll, rap, jazz, folk, or swing, for example.
If you are trying to portray Bogart & Bergman in "Casablanca," you shouldn't be dancing and looking like Clara and the Nutcracker Prince going to a Halloween party dressed as Virtue and Moir, and dancing to the great comic Jimmy "The Schnozzola" Durante's version of "As Time Goes By."
Not if you want to be taken seriously.
Can anyone imagine Paul (although she really did try) being the recipient of Islam saying, "Here's looking at you kid?" It would work better if they were costumed closer to the movie. I hope to see them in different costumes by Canadians.
It's like when two girls go to the prom in the exact same gown. It doesn't work very well, but it's worse for the one who isn't as popular/as pretty/as skilled. It's worse when the less popular girl is wearing the popular girl's cast off last year's prom dress.
BTW, this was one of the problems when D&W and DomShabs were both doing Polovetsian Dances-but in that case it was the worse for DomShabs as well, because comparisons with the younger team were not all positive for DomShabs. DomShabs were less technical, but D&W had poorer extension and ownership of the ice.
Also, again solely IMO, I'm not crazy about ballet infiltrating ice dance that much. If you want to be an ice ballerina and do a pas de deux, the best place is in pairs to classical music. Ice Dance is also about timing, rhythm, and character of the music and the dance that is being portrayed. Ballet flourishes just get in the way of that, in most dances. Who wants to see a polka with ballet arms and wrists and hands and pointed toes? Who wants to see jazz done by a ballerina? The result is comic, as Rahkamo and Kokko perceived and took advantage of in their "Funny Ballerina" FD.
There are ballet-appropriate ice dances. If you are, as I&K are doing, "Don Quixote" with the ballet's music by Minkus, by all means that is super appropriate for ice dance. It is a legitimate style. But not a legitimate style for rock and roll, rap, jazz, folk, or swing, for example.
If you are trying to portray Bogart & Bergman in "Casablanca," you shouldn't be dancing and looking like Clara and the Nutcracker Prince going to a Halloween party dressed as Virtue and Moir, and dancing to the great comic Jimmy "The Schnozzola" Durante's version of "As Time Goes By."
Not if you want to be taken seriously.
Can anyone imagine Paul (although she really did try) being the recipient of Islam saying, "Here's looking at you kid?" It would work better if they were costumed closer to the movie. I hope to see them in different costumes by Canadians.
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