Virtue and Moir vs. The World

[skateluvr]

Math I feel they will not win because they have had their time in the limelight and ice dance especially has been and still is about waiting your turn. I think several teams are as good as they are. And I believe the judges plan to reward new reams.

When I think of how amazingTorvill and Dean skated 10 years after gold and I compare that to the team that won gold in 94 I can only say the judges taste had changed a bit with the sport. And now it's most about speed and fast accurate twizzles with fast complex rotational lifts. Choreography still matters and beautiful deep curving edges but I don't believe this couple will be drastically different than the last two Olympics. 2010 they skated theFD of their lives. They peaked.

2014 they were a bit slower and clearly the speed and complexity of their frenemy pair was preferred. So time for a different pair to have gold and they got runner up. I personally have never understood ice dance judging and still don't.

I just believe that while they could grab silver the gold will go to another team. It is hard to just see these dancers on tv at best tho. But really I prefer the top two American teams to the French team. I do not think she has beautiful ice dancer legs with what I like to see. What is the big deal? Why are they so great? Ice dance is still about who they prefer. The most subjective discipline. But there is that get to the top and stay there phenomenon we do not see any more in singles.

So yes theFrench team is in the lead now but this season another excellent pair in the top 6 might have the package that they love and things might change. Right now the judges do not feel they owe loyalty to Scott and Tessa. I think only an. Amazingly different set of dances could change the bias toward the French and whoever they like second best.

If they gave T and D bronze for those fabulous skates then I see bronze as likely. But it all depends on many factors besides actual performances as we all well know. I repeat I would not bet a penny they get gold until I see something of what they look like in the fall. I think they look at Pasha and partner and think - wow we are so much better and I agree. But their chance for second gold was foiled by Meryl and Charlie who skated every time out like it was the Olympics. There are very hungry dancers out there and they must be rewarded for decades of effort. That is how it works- even under cop.

 

[4everchan]

^^

Re Torville and Dean... they stopped for 10 years, the sport had evolved massively... and you may say the judges didn't want to give it to them but they were still awarded first place for the OD.... so they could have won it... The reality is that their FD material, even if well skated and interesting wasn't as spectacular and difficult.


Regarding Virtue and Moir : I don't think that winning silver in 2014 is an indication that the judges will never want to give them gold again.... I think that back then, it was subjective as the two top teams were pretty well matched... I believe that the SD should have been won by V/M but the F/D by D/W...

Regarding the other teams... .right after the retirement of the top ice dance teams from the O games, Ice dance was a bit confused as there were no clear leaders...

That year, 3 teams came inside of a point with the Italians winning it...

I feel that it was sort of a place holder title.... let's wait for next year and see what happens there....

The french team had the perfect FD in 2015 so they won.

Is their material much easier... Yes. Is Gabby weaker, I am afraid so... but Guillaume is special and their coaching team knows how to package them so that they get top marks across the board. I think that in 2016, even if they won, it wasn't as clear in my mind that they were SOOOO above everyone else. The Shibs could have taken it....
So I am thinking that it is wide open in Ice dance. It will be exciting to see what happens.

One thing to remember : the Olympics are not this year.... Even if V/M don't win this year, they have another year to make their move to the top of the podium. I am thinking that if they place anywhere in the top 3-4, they still have a shot for gold at the olympics.

 

[Mathman]

What is the big deal [about the French team]? Why are they so great?

I don't know, I don't know, they just are! What I like about them is that they just look so confident and comfortable out there that all I have to do is sit back and go along for the ride. For some reason, great teams like Virtue and Moir and Davis and White kept me on the edge of my seat, but not in a good way. More like, "Don't screw up, don't screw up."

I like this entire crop, TBH. I have a great fondness for Chock and Bates (maybe because I watched them grew up from juniors, so to speak -- at least, Chock and Zuerline ) However, I do not think that they have improved in the last two years.

As for the Shibs, they hit the jackpot with Fix It, but will they be able to latch on to an equally amazing vehicle this year and the next?

 

[TangoTraumatica]

I've also been watching Madison Chock since she was skating with Zuerline and I've loved watching her grow!

I'm also curious to see how the Shibs do. They've had some great programs and some misses. I'd love to see them live up to what they put up at the 2010 Olys.

 

[Mango]

I don't know, I don't know, they just are! What I like about them is that they just look so confident and comfortable out there that all I have to do is sit back and go along for the ride. For some reason, great teams like Virtue and Moir and Davis and White kept me on the edge of my seat, but not in a good way. More like, "Don't screw up, don't screw up."

I like this entire crop, TBH. I have a great fondness for Chock and Bates (maybe because I watched them grew up from juniors, so to speak -- at least, Chock and Zuerline ) However, I do not think that they have improved in the last two years.

As for the Shibs, they hit the jackpot with Fix It, but will they be able to latch on to an equally amazing vehicle this year and the next?

I think you mean, "Fix You". Unless you think of them as Mario and Luigi...

 

[brushalley]

I

I like this entire crop, TBH. I have a great fondness for Chock and Bates (maybe because I watched them grew up from juniors, so to speak -- at least, Chock and Zuerline ) However, I do not think that they have improved in the last two years.

I am really liking Chock/Bates but I agree they didn't improve last season.I still think they are the dark horse.They must have better programmes this year .They were only just behind S/S so don't discount them retaining the US number one this year!Looking forward to their Under Pressure FD!

 

[solani]

What Makes people automatically assume that Pap&Ciz can beat them , the fact of the matter is technically none of the ice dance teams this quad are as strong technically as V&M or D&W were, just the crazy difficult lifts none of these teams can do them including the French,

P/C don't need crazy difficult lifts.It was said their lifts were too simple but they got level four for them didn't they?I disagree C/B S/S S/B all can do great lifts.
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It's true that P/C's lifts are not particularly flashy but that doesn't mean that they aren't difficult. I'd go as far and say that they way they integrate their lifts into their programs combined with some of the body leans Cizeron does and the smoothness, feel for the rhythm and extension of Papadakis is crazy difficult. It's just a different style. I'm curious about the lifts that V/M will come up with - do we have any videos of their lifts yet, have I overlooked something?

 

[brushalley]

I must say a lot of the skaters are doing the stand on the man's thigh lift with outstretched arms that I'm sure D/W started

 

[Sugarpova]

The key part of your post was "that were ignored at worlds." If the judges want a team to win, then mistakes will always be ignored. This even happened with D/W.

if I had more like options I'd use it on this post

It all depends on the judges/panel

 

[olayolay]

It's true that P/C's lifts are not particularly flashy but that doesn't mean that they aren't difficult. I'd go as far and say that they way they integrate their lifts into their programs combined with some of the body leans Cizeron does and the smoothness, feel for the rhythm and extension of Papadakis is crazy difficult. It's just a different style. I'm curious about the lifts that V/M will come up with - do we have any videos of their lifts yet, have I overlooked something?

https://twitter.com/SkateTSN/status/771736157260505088

 

[Alex D]

Some questions for start:

Other than the French, who else should they be concerned of? And have those competitors caught up to their calibre yet? What are Tessa and Scott's weaknesses that will prevent them from winning? What are their advantages?

Fun questions laugh: feel free to explain!)
Will Tessa regain her title as hottest ice dance diva queen of the ice from Elena I.?
Are you excited for the upcoming seasons in preparation of the 2018 Games?

Feel free to come up more serious and fun questions if you have any!

I am looking forward to the ice dance season, as in each year the skaters lifted up the sport and for me, Ice Dance has never been in a better spot than last year. The stories were absolutely gorgeous and I am not just talking about the top three or four in the world! No, even skaters below 10 or 20, in junior / novice level brought these special performances that leave no eye dry and it shows that ice dance is finally (in my opinion) going back to the artistry and story telling, while still keeping it all smooth and athletic, I like that.

Hip Hop will be interesting to watch, as it´s something that comes from the heart and soul, something that you can not just read about in a book.

As for the ice dance queen, Well, Tessa is of course the lady that most men have let in their heart (I never felt she was a Diva though) and yes, she left an empty spot when she waved goodbye. That being said, I am a huge fan of Madi, she can give you that look ... a very kind lady, great sense of humor and a great dancer, for me, the best female dancer on the ice and she does a tremendous job with Evan, who suits her very well.

What happens during the season we don´t know yet, but I would give Tessa and Scott some time, no comeback is an instant victory, well unless you are Kim Clijsters .... but ya, the scene did not stand still and it would be disrespectful towards all the other skaters, if we now automatically hand over the gold to the Canadians. Nontheless, it´s great to have them back and I wish all the dancers a wonderful season.

 

[Rossig]

Re Torville and Dean... they stopped for 10 years, the sport had evolved massively... and you may say the judges didn't want to give it to them but they were still awarded first place for the OD.... so they could have won it... The reality is that their FD material, even if well skated and interesting wasn't as spectacular and difficult.

T&D had been absent from competition 10 years and they were the oldest team. Despite being the best. no way they were allowed to win. Yes, they did win OD, but their OD was light years ahead of other ODs, so judges didn't have much choice, especially that they didn't have excuse to make any deductions as they did in FD.

V&M were absent only 2 years, it is a very big difference between 10 and 2. So I'm not sure if the situation of those two teams is comparable. Some people say the judges may not want to give the gold in Olympics to the team who has already gold. But judges didn't have problem to give another gold to Grishuk and Platov. So I think if Virtue and Moir will show they are the best, they have chance to win. The thing is it won't be easy, but not because of the judges and the resentment towards them, but because of the competiton from other teams.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I must say a lot of the skaters are doing the stand on the man's thigh lift with outstretched arms that I'm sure D/W started

Virtue and Moir also used lifts where Tessa stood on Scott's thigh with her arms stretched out too. Goose lift, 2009 Pink Floyd, etc. Granted Scott usually had a great low squat position in his spread eagle while doing it, but it's all variations on a theme. I always thought it looked amazing when they did it, and it still does when I rewatch their performances.

I like a good debate and going over hypos too, but I don't think we need to stress out too much about whether or not V/M will be gold medal contenders by 2018. They're happy, healthy, optimistic, and inspired with their comeback. It's all been on their own terms, and we'll find out this season how they'll do against the top ice dance teams. I think with the judges scoring PCS and GOE really high these days, it makes the ice dance competition really exciting as no team other than P/C is running away with wins (though even with P/C they don't have the same point differential that V/M and D/W had with the rest of the field in their prime). I haven't enjoyed a whole field of ice dancers in a very long time and 2016 Worlds was the first Worlds where I truly enjoyed almost every team's FD since 2008 Worlds. No matter what happens, I think we ice dance fans are the true winners this Olympic cycle.

I do think this field could be encouraged to add more actual dancing into their routines. The judges and callers have made it so that teams have to perform their footwork and elements with such clarity in order to hit level 4 that I find that dancers are concentrating much more on presenting their elements in the best way possible than actually dancing. Even Tessa mentioned how that aspect changed since she competed in one of the interviews she did at HPC. With V/M's comeback (a team who really knew how to dance), and with P/C leading the charge of the new crop, I hope to see not only the storytelling aspect come back to ice dance, but dance-heavy intricacy as well. I do love what most teams are putting out, and if they can add intricacy with their high-level clean execution of elements, then this sport really will reach a new high.

 

[anyanka]

I consider the Urban dictionnary as the most helpful to understand this kind of expression.
http://fr.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hoochie%20Mama

HOOCHIE MAMA

Version from Karla 21 janvier 2004
1. A female who dresses ghetto ho fabulous. Lots of gold, lots of weave-typically Pattie LaBelle style with red, purple, gold, or orange streaks, and long nails with lots of airbrush glitter, and color. This female's goal in life is to use her female attriibutes to obtain a male with lots of money or any money to spend on her. Weaves, rent, & diapers for her baby from another daddy included.
2. A ghetto version of a "Gold Digger".
Friday night (payday} at the club: "Ooo, girl the hoochie mamas are out trollin' tonight!"

From Marion R 21 octobre 2007
Couchie is adapted from the French word coucher for "to go to bed" (like our word "couch", which you can lie down on). And around the turn of the century in really gritty clubs and circuses (and for a long time after that) women who danced suggestively rolling their hips were "hootchie coutchie" dancers, or dancing the "hootchie coochie".
These women were not considered morally upright in the general public, so calling a woman a hootchie cooch was calling her a tramp, especially if dressed in a way that is meant to be provocative and showy. Hootchie mama is a variation on this term. (And could get you beat down if you call a woman that.)
That Britney Spears ain't never gonna get her kids back going into the courtroom dressed like a hoochie mama.
That daughter of yours thinks she looks cute in her short skirt and bare midriff, but to the guys at school she just looks real hootchie.
"Now folks here's the story 'bout Minnie the Moocher. She was a red hot hootchie coocher..." - Minnie the Moocher (Cab Calloway - 1930)

I love that you went to Urban Dictionary for this. Now how long before someone references "chola eyebrows" in relation to a skater?

 

[TangoTraumatica]

I do think this field could be encouraged to add more actual dancing into their routines. The judges and callers have made it so that teams have to perform their footwork and elements with such clarity in order to hit level 4 that I find that dancers are concentrating much more on presenting their elements in the best way possible than actually dancing. Even Tessa mentioned how that aspect changed since she competed in one of the interviews she did at HPC. With V/M's comeback (a team who really knew how to dance), and with P/C leading the charge of the new crop, I hope to see not only the storytelling aspect come back to ice dance, but dance-heavy intricacy as well. I do love what most teams are putting out, and if they can add intricacy with their high-level clean execution of elements, then this sport really will reach a new high.

Agreed! I'm actually more excited to see P/C and V/M push each other than I was to see the rivalry with Davis and White. We know that Tessa and Scott are a dancier-dance team, and Guillaume certainly has moves, so I'm looking forward to see the top two teams push each other artistically as well as technically. It also sounds and looks like (though this is based on interviews and instagram) that the training environment in MTL is much better than it was in Canton, so hopefully that more supportive environment helps both teams see positive results (rather than hurt feelings) from their training centre.