Wagner "furious" on scores

[rlopen]

Well, basically she is telling them that they are not doing a good job, so it is normal that they are so furious just like her. I don´t have problem with she complaining, except that I am not agree with her, but it is totally expected that she won´t get any favours saying that, and I did not see her complaining when judges gave her higher PCS to her than to Mao.

No I don't think it's extremely deserved but I do like this and I wish more skaters (ESPECIALLY Mao!!!!) did this...but then again Mao never would do that.

 

[musicfan80]

Honestly, I’ve been cringing all season at the hype Ashley has been getting as well as what she’s been giving herself. At least she has her Nike/Bridgestone/etc. sponsorship money.

 

[icybear]

I think she was scored fairly. I hope she doesnt think that sending out such comments will make the US Fed and people believe she should be allowed another stolen Olympic spot. Maybe next time she should stomp out from the kiss and cry area and just go straight to the judges table to protest. Maybe Ashley was inspired by the new Tonya Harding movie. I dont remember any skaters in the past complaining about not getting enough points.

 

[Ares]

Whatever Wagner is throwing with her attitude entitled, this time around it will come to bite her behind at the end. She couldn't sell her delusional self perception forever.

I don't think Ashley's here screams entitled attitude, she just tells you how she sees is and has her right to complain. Maybe slightly deluded in some areas, but who would not be in the heat of the moment? Either way she's not disrespectful or rude. It's definitely disappointing (and in my opinion unfair) for her how everyone else received bump in PCS bar Ashley who receives less than internationally. Even if I were to disagree with this notion of her deserving higher PCS here I'd still have nothing against her speaking her mind. If anything one would like to see more transparency in figure skating in general. People should not be upset when skaters or coaches call out different things and speak out their mind, if anything we have too much of that sugar, keeping things bottled up by athletes and beating about the bush from commentators who are ready to call triple flutz ... ''stunning triple lutz''.
It was obvious though already after SP that they are not favourable anymore to her which was sad (ok, not for Wagner haters) but unfortunately there were some reasons for it too as it goes this way in this sport. Tides turn.

 

[labgoat]

I'm never upset at a competitor who calls out the judging,
If anything it even takes guts in this specific sport,
It's important to be able to back up what you're saying though,
And people either care or they don't

honestly sometimes judges need to be called out we know this
as fans and we even do it ourselves
Sometimes there's foul play in this sport and one of the reasons it keeps happening
is skaters or coaches feeling they'd have to deal with backlash if they pointed it out
(From fans or judges) to the level that there have been discrepancies that
the WHOLE skating community is aware of and everyone's choosing to keep quiet
and stay "gracious"

I say if you feel strongly enough about it and you feel like you can take it,
Dish it out

Ashley comes from a military family that is used to fighting for what they believe in. I'm sure she felt like she had to stand her ground as her fate was being decided.

 

[GGFan]

Well, basically she is telling them that they are not doing a good job, so it is normal that they are so furious just like her. I don´t have problem with she complaining, except that I am not agree with her, but it is totally expected that she won´t get any favours saying that, and I did not see her complaining when judges gave her higher PCS than to Mao.

I think Ashley's strong sense of injustice can be invaluable, like when she spoke up for gay rights in 2014. However, she definitely has blinders when it comes to her own skating and has at times veered into entitlement. It's a subjective sport, with lots of intricacies and split second judgments, and she has been given the benefit of the doubt many times. Those of us who remember the Cold War era judging saw real injustices. For example someone would fall and half of the judges would just pretend they didn't see it. That's a horrible system to have to compete in because things really are out of your control.

There were legitimate things that Ashley could have worked on over the years (her skating skills and spins for example) that could have helped her and yet we saw little development on these fronts. This is not the story of a once in a lifetime talent like Janet Lynn being held back by the structure of the sport, but rather a good skater feeling entitled to greater consideration and fan fare. Sorry, but I'm not on board.

 

[brightphoton]

TBH though when we complain about skaters being angry about their results you know that the people ACTUALLY in power at ISU/USFSA/RusFed, etc probably are also angry as well...which probably explains why more skaters don't complain because they're all too afraid their results are gonna suffer if they don't criticize people for underscoring them. If the people who actually are underscored do criticize the judges for underscoring them, then it can put pressure on the judges to actually judge fairly. I also think it could start a more honest and more open dialogue if people weren't so petty and angry when people complain when they feel slighted. Ashley had every right to complain (it's a free world it's your life) even if it might not have been deserved, she still has a right to do so. Personally I like when people speak up when they feel like they're shafted because at least they're trying to do something than just roll over and accept their fate. Not gonna lie but this actually kinda made me like Ashley more.

It's kind of hypocritical too. There are so much wuzrobbing done by fans, but if a skater says she wuzrobbed, suddenly it's bad?

 

[Globetrotter]

I don't think Ashley's here screams entitled attitude, she just tells you how she sees is and has her right to complain.

Sure she does. It doesn’t mean that we have to agree and certainly that came across classless and entitled perception wise. And a tad unrealistic that being a good performer and being used to getting higher scores does not entitle to huge PCS when you did not interpret to your usual standards and your SS did not noticeably improve.

 

[GGFan]

It's kind of hypocritical too. There are so much wuzrobbing done by fans, but if a skater says she wuzrobbed, suddenly it's bad?

For me there's a difference between what you say to your friends and family, or even off the record and going out there and saying you wuzrobbed to the press. Figure skating has been going on for much longer than Ashley and believe it or not there have been much greater controversies. Given that I did not see those folks, from Janet Lynn to Linda Fratianne to Michelle Kwan come out and cry injustice it's hard for me to countenance how Ashley can.

She's a grown woman and she's free to do as she pleases, but athletes know that sometimes things do not work out in their favor. To then steal other's moments by complaining about your scores (and without mentioning the others she was by implication still referring to them) seems unprofessional to me. Complain to your friends and keep it classy to the press. Maybe I'm just old school that way.

 

[eriecold]

I think she was scored fairly. I hope she doesnt think that sending out such comments will make the US Fed and people believe she should be allowed another stolen Olympic spot. Maybe next time she should stomp out from the kiss and cry area and just go straight to the judges table to protest. Maybe Ashley was inspired by the new Tonya Harding movie. I dont remember any skaters in the past complaining about not getting enough points.

her olimpic spot from 4 years ago was well deserved. As for her comments, she knew it was impossible to bump any of these top 3 and that's why she didn't care about speaking up, she had nothing to lose anyway

 

[labgoat]

I think Ashley's strong sense of injustice can be invaluable, like when she spoke up for gay rights in 2014. However, she definitely has blinders when it comes to her own skating and has at times veered into entitlement. It's a subjective sport, with lots of intricacies and split second judgments, and she has been given the benefit of the doubt many times. Those of us who remember the Cold War era judging saw real injustices. For example someone would fall and half of the judges would just pretend they didn't see it. That's a horrible system to have to compete in because things really are out of your control.

There were legitimate things that Ashley could have worked on over the years (her skating skills and spins for example) that could have helped her and yet we saw little development on these fronts. This is not the story of a once in a lifetime talent like Janet Lynn being held back by the structure of the sport, but rather a good skater feeling entitled to greater consideration and fan fare. Sorry, but I'm not on board.

Many skaters have a blind spot - Mirai does not acknowledge her lack of choreo before the triple axel, Karen does not acknowledge her combo problems and under rotation issues. Why would you acknowledge and advertise your weaknesses, it is bad pr.

That said, People complain about Ashley's spins, but she must have improved to get the levels she did. She even did some twizzles to waltzing music.

 

[brightphoton]

For me there's a difference between what you say to your friends and family, or even off the record and going out there and saying you wuzrobbed to the press. Figure skating has been going on for much longer than Ashley and believe it or not there have been much greater controversies. Given that I did not see those folks, from Janet Lynn to Linda Fratianne to Michelle Kwan come out and cry injustice it's hard for me to countenance how Ashley can.

She's a grown woman and she's free to do as she pleases, but athletes know that sometimes things do not work out in their favor. To then steal other's moments by complaining about your scores (and without mentioning the others she was by implication still referring to them) seems unprofessional to me. Complain to your friends and keep it classy to the press. Maybe I'm just old school that way.

Maybe if judges were called out, they'd feel more accountable to their scores. More transparency never hurt anyone

 

[GGFan]

Maybe if judges were called out, they'd feel more accountable to their scores. More transparency never hurt anyone

I think that would be a more general criticism of the judging and I would not mind that. If that were the case I would expect to see some consistency from Ashley and have her call out the judges when they overinflate her marks as well. Things have gone in both directions for her, but I've never seen any outrage when it inures to her benefit. She has stood on podiums proudly and I have never seen her speak up for lower ranked skaters or those from small federations who get hosed in scoring.

 

[Feline Feeder]

Here is the insight from someone who doesn't follow skating as much as I do, my mother.

"Ashley skates like a showgirl. I don't think the judges like that."

To me, that probably says it all, LOL!

I support her questioning the judges, and if she files some sort of formal recount (can she?) and goes ahead of Karen, I will support her being placed on the team.

But she had a bad year, pulled of of SA, changed her long program, didn't make GPF or do well in the series in general, didn't do well at World's last year. She doesn't have bumping rights this year.

 

[silverfoxes]

Ashley comes from a military family that is used to fighting for what they believe in. I'm sure she felt like she had to stand her ground as her fate was being decided.

LOL. Maybe she should have fought by improving her skating and competing more instead of trying to make up for all those lost opportunities with her big mouth, then.

Mirai is a real fighter...Ashley is all talk.

 

[Feline Feeder]

I think that would be a more general criticism of the judging and I would not mind that. If that were the case I would expect to see some consistency from Ashley and have her call out the judges when they overinflate her marks as well. Things have gone in both directions for her, but I've never seen any outrage when it inures to her benefit. She has stood on podiums proudly and I have never seen her speak up for lower ranked skaters or those from small federations who get hosed in scoring.

Well, they can or should speak for themselves, I suppose. She's not the lawyer for the underscored. That sounds like a fun job, actually!

 

[schizoanalyst]

I think that would be a more general criticism of the judging and I would not mind that. If that were the case I would expect to see some consistency from Ashley and have her call out the judges when they overinflate her marks as well. Things have gone in both directions for her, but I've never seen any outrage when it inures to her benefit. She has stood on podiums proudly and I have never seen her speak up for lower ranked skaters or those from small federations who get hosed in scoring.

That would’ve been the death of her career. The judges would’ve vindictively punished her and used her own rhetoric as justification. I guess she could’ve martyred her career for it, but that seems like a big ask. Plus, it would be rude to fling a skater into a controversy that isn't yourself just for your own gain.

 

[snd]

i have seen karen and ashley live in the same competition. karen's artistry (=pcs) is vastly superior to that of ashley and the "international judges" who have thrown these great pcs at ashley for jerking her shoulders while skating on two feet are delusional hacks and should feel ashamed of themselves. thank god that justice was served and karen's wonderful skating got rewarded as it should this time.

edit: congratulations, mirai!

 

[minze]

No I don't think it's extremely deserved but I do like this and I wish more skaters (ESPECIALLY Mao!!!!) did this...but then again Mao never would do that.

My Queen Mao was not a complainer

 

[GGFan]

Well, they can or should speak for themselves, I suppose. She's not the lawyer for the underscored. That sounds like a fun job, actually!

My larger point is that Ashley is not doing anything new or noble here. Sour grapes have been around since the beginning of the world. I'm not going to give her credit for complaining. She's had lots of interview space and time over the years to discuss component scoring. It's not like she even waited and analyzed objectively. She just felt she deserved more. That's not fighting the injustices of the judging system. It's just saying well regardless of what happens over there I deserve higher marks. The fact that there are actual skaters out there killing themselves to put in more transitions or to get better edges and not getting the scores does not bother her at all.

As an American I will call this out as very stereotypical levels of American entitlement. I still think Ashley is a great personality but these comments were a mistake.