Weir vs. Buttle?

[Ogre Mage]

Weir and Buttle

I think both men are equally great with many of the same strengths. However, I believe Weir has an edge due to his competitive history. Johnny got noticed after he won U.S. Nationals last year and finished 5th in his first Worlds. Buttle is yet to win Canadian Nationals and to my knowledge he has never placed significantly at the WC. While it is possible to come out of nowhere (Oksana Baiul in 1993), it is very difficult. Johnny has also been more consistent on his jumps. The judges will probably give it to Weir in a close call.

I think Jeff is cute and sweet ... but that is another matter entirely ...

 

[Ladskater]

Jeff is the best spinner and gets a lot of mileage out of his spins - so to speak - this goes a long ways in the cop scoring system. Plus he pays attention to detail and does not telegraph any of his moves. He has the best choreographed program this season and it gets better each time he does it. He may go for the quad - which he has attempted - later. I think it will likely come down to the quad. I hate to see that as the deciding factor in any program, but that is the way it is.

 

[Linny]

speed

Hard to tell on TV: who is the faster skater?
Linny

 

[chuckm]

In the past two seasons on the GP, Jeff tried the quad three times and fell on each attempt. He has had limited success with the 3A in the GP series and lands it successfully about 60% of the time. He has superb spins, footwork and choreography, but his jumps are his Achilles heel.

Weir is an amazingly consistent jumper. His jumps are huge with great flowout, and he, too has some great spins and footwork. He will include the quad when he feels it is secure, and when he does, I think it will be as solid as his other jumps. The jumps are what give Weir the edge over Buttle.

 

[Jaana]

I like both skaters, but prefer Weir. In my opinion he has the choreography and interpretation at least on the same level as Buttle, and as mentioned by others, Weir is a more consistent jumper (with a flow in his jumps). I think when these skaters meet in a competition, it is Weir that wins.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hard to tell on TV: who is the faster skater? Linny

I know "speed" is a consideration in scoring but I think it is misunderstood by most of the fans. I believe the system is speaking of the 'proper' speed throughout the program. Speed is very important in racing! In figure skating no one wants to watch someone languishing on the ice, and for the most part, senior skaters keep a good pace when on the ice. However, there are times when a senior skater does languish on the ice possibly because of a fall or some other miscalculation.

In the case of Buttle v. Weir, I really don't think speed is a concern of either one of them. They are both, imo, pacing their speed quite well in their programs, and I don't see the necessity to 'time' them.

Joe

Joe

 

[Linny]

Speed in figure skating

Maybe I should say "ice coverage" instead... at any rate, what drew my attention to Carolina Kostner was the speed with which she skates. One of Plushy's trademarks is the speed to which he accelerates from a standstill. One major difference between B&S and the other pairs was their speed.

The other thing about speed was that I never really noticed the differences in speed between skaters until I saw some of them live... but the number of live performances I have seen is still less than the number of fingers on my hand.

When a skater goes faster, everything seems more powerful. I think that speed is a consideration in choosing between two skaters who are closely matched.

Which brings me to my original question: for anyone who as seen both Buttle and Weir live, who skates faster? Or are they closely matched in this department also?

Linny

 

[Fruit Loops]

I prefer Jeff Buttle over Johnny Weir even though I love both. Part of it has to do with national bias (I admit it) but I also like Jeff's skating style better. I agree that Johnny has better flow out of his jumps--particularily the 3A--but Jeff has great entrances and decent air positions and his spins are fantastic. While Johnny is wonderful to watch I think his style is a little too soft and pretty/delicate for a male competitor. Jeff's long program this year seems really gender-neutral to me though his SP is a bit prancey

Besides, I think Jeff's cuter. Johnny needs a haircut (I like shaggy-do's, but his is a little much)

 

[euterpe]

I find the remarks about Johnny's "pretty/delicate" style and Jeff's "prancey" SP offensive. Jeff has had his share of weird hairdos over the years. It's the SKATING that counts, not hairdos and perceived masculinity or lack thereof.

One thing I don't like about Jeff is his mouth is hanging open all the time when he skates, and that's probably because he has a pronounced overbite. He should see an orthodontist.

I don't like either Johnny's or Jeff's FS costume. Johnny's SP costume is terrific, but I've never seen Jeff's.

 

[Mathman]

Which brings me to my original question: for anyone who as seen both Buttle and Weir live, who skates faster? Or are they closely matched in this department also?

I have seen each of them skate live only once, in two different cheesefests. The one time that I saw Jeff, he was amazing, but I had more the impression of controled tempo throughout than of super speed.

The time I saw Johnny (Marshalls) he was definitely off his game. But still to me it seemed like he had great speed which was deceptive becuse he skated so smoothly. I would give Johnny the edge here (based on this sample of size 1, LOL).

Mathman

 

[eliza88]

I thoroughly enjoy watching BOTH of these men! In fact I have probably rewatched each of their skates this season more times than I care to count! (the husband groans, oh not Weir again!) I love Buttle's creativity and I love Weir's smooooooooooooooothness! I hope both of these skaters can stay top tier for awhile so I (we) can continue to enjoy them! Aren't they both about 21?

When watching Weir, I am rarely nervous as he approaches each jump--not the same for Buttle. Right now I too give the nod to Weir. When these two have consistent quads, Plushy will have something to worry about. I am not saying that Plushenko cannot be beaten this year, but with his speed and technical skills I think he would have to splat a couple of times to lose.

eliza88

 

[LimeZest]

When did Jeff land his quad-triple combo?

 

[Linny]

Prance

If you've ever seen a stallion prance, you'd probably not associate the word "prance" with anything but pure masculinity.
Linny

 

[chuckm]

Weir is 20 and Buttle is 22.

I think Weir has an excellent chance of developing a quad as solid as his other jumps. He's only been skating since the age of 12, his skating has improved dramatically just in the past year, and he has been practicing both 4T and 4S with good results. What Johnny has to do is try the quad in competition. He has said he'd like to go to 4CC this year and attempt the quad there before putting it into his programs at Worlds.

Buttle keeps trying to land a competition quad with very little success; in fact in the GP this season, he was doing 3F3T instead of the quad.

 

[shine]

In terms of choreography and interpreting skills, Buttle wins hands down. But sometimes I find him to be overdoing things and there's something about the way he moves that bothers me from time to time. I don't think he's nearly as smooth as Weir or has as much ease, but Buttle is much more interesting to watch. Weir has yet to prove himself a good music interpreter.
But the again, neither is the skating genius that's Stephane Lambiel

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Maybe I should say "ice coverage" instead... at any rate, what drew my attention to Carolina Kostner was the speed with which she skates. One of Plushy's trademarks is the speed to which he accelerates from a standstill. One major difference between B&S and the other pairs was their speed.The other thing about speed was that I never really noticed the differences in speed between skaters until I saw some of them live... but the number of live performances I have seen is still less than the number of fingers on my hand.When a skater goes faster, everything seems more powerful. I think that speed is a consideration in choosing between two skaters who are closely matched.Which brings me to my original question: for anyone who as seen both Buttle and Weir live, who skates faster? Or are they closely matched in this department also?Linny

Linny - SPEED is not so important to me as it is to you. The lack of speed is important. If we were to time all the senior skaters for speed there would not be too much difference in the top tier skater. Yuka Sato is considered the skater who has the most speed, but you would never know it because she just glides over the ice so quietly. Unique!! B&S were among the best teams in figure skating ever. One would expect them to have speed. Carolina's speed when, she is skating, is adequate but when she is struggling on the ice either with falls or stumbles she is not all that fast. Maybe she has trouble controlling the speed? When a skater goes faster, everything not only appears powerful, it is actually easier to jump.

I have seen Johnny live covering the ice in Atlanta and in Dortmund. His flow over the entire arena is incredible. In fact in Dallas he skated into the boards because he was covering the entire ice but not carefully.

What I saw of Buttle on TV, it looked to me like he covers the complete arena as much a Johnny does and with excellent speed. Both skaters have that difficult element of perfect stroking which is absolutely required for covering the ice. Stroking to me is a basic element I look for in each skater.

Your final question would be better worded if you had named one of the skaters who is the faster. This way another 'speed fan' could give you an argument or agree with you.

Cheers - Joe

 

[Fruit Loops]

Oh gee wiz. I knew I was going to get pounced on for my prancey and soft/delicate comments. But I refuse to retract them because that's my honest to goodness opinion and they weren't meant as insults. These styles just aren't my favourite. We all have our own ideas of what constitutes masculine and feminine and what's wrong with expressing that? I'm obviously not condemning these skaters for not falling in my definitions since they're two of my favourite skaters. They're so wonderful and beautiful and what they do I am willing to look over what I would normally prefer.

And I've seen a stallion prance but I really can't compare animals to human gender roles, characteristics, stereotypes or the like.

 

[sk8fanconvert]

Oh gee wiz. I knew I was going to get pounced on for my prancey and soft/delicate comments.

I'd hardly call Linny's comment a 'pounce'! You might need to toughen up a little, even on a respectful board like goldenskate!

But I refuse to retract them because that's my honest to goodness opinion and they weren't meant as insults. These styles just aren't my favourite. We all have our own ideas of what constitutes masculine and feminine and what's wrong with expressing that? I'm obviously not condemning these skaters for not falling in my definitions since they're two of my favourite skaters. They're so wonderful and beautiful and what they do I am willing to look over what I would normally prefer.

It was not obvious to me that you were not condeming them (how big of you!) Your comments are a little insulting to me in that they reflect an ideology that has devalued, marginalized, injured, and yes, condemed gay people (and those perceived to be gay); your intention is secondary.

No one is trying to take away your right to your opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to stay silent in disagreement. Fine, it's 'simply' your opinion. It's also 'simply' true that some opinions are based in prejudice. You are welcome to it.

For my part, I love Johnny's skating. Some call it 'feminine'. I just find it lyrical and exhilirating. Jeffery Buttle ranks right up there with him.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh gee wiz. I knew I was going to get pounced on for my prancey and soft/delicate comments. But I refuse to retract them because that's my honest to goodness opinion and they weren't meant as insults. These styles just aren't my favourite. We all have our own ideas of what constitutes masculine and feminine and what's wrong with expressing that? I'm obviously not condemning these skaters for not falling in my definitions since they're two of my favourite skaters. They're so wonderful and beautiful and what they do I am willing to look over what I would normally prefer.

And I've seen a stallion prance but I really can't compare animals to human gender roles, characteristics, stereotypes or the like.

FruitLoops - Don't fret over this. No one is pouncing. I think the problem is the meaning of the word prance . It means lively, cavorting, strutting. All this applies to humans as well as animals. Showing off is very characteristic in human males as well as females. I often use the word 'smug' to describe a skater's attitude which simply means self assured. If one is smug one will prance and show off.

Best to keep to your innuendos of Johnny and Jeffrey without using prance because the way I read the word and I am sure others do to is that neither of those skaters have the showy style of a Yagudin or Stoyko. If you perecive them as skating in a feminine way, say it, and add you only like male skaters whom you perceive skate in a more macho style. This is your opinion and you are entitled to that.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I don't think of Johnny's skating style as "feminine" at all. On the contrary, to me, he pushes through all of his movements with sustained stength and vigor. That is why he is so smooth, IMO.

To me, a feminine style would be mincing little steps, like Michelle's little running steps at the opening of Lyra Angelica. Or delicate posing like Yukina Ota.

Mathman