What’s missing from modern figure skating?

[gsk8]

Some programs age.
Others still feel timeless.

Programs like Michelle Kwan’s “Lyra Angelica” were not built around maximum technical difficulty; they were built around flow, musical phrasing, and complete connection to the ice.

Effortless glide
Softness and control between elements
Movement that matched the music naturally

Other quick examples:

Yuka Sato — Adagio Sostenuto
Lu Chen — Butterfly Lovers Concerto
Kurt Browning — Casablanca, Nyah
Paul Wylie — Bring Him Home
Alexei Yagudin — Winter
Sasha Cohen — Swan Lake

Today’s skating is faster, more difficult, and more technical than ever. But programs like this still raise interesting questions:

What qualities from older programs do you think are missing most in modern skating?

– Flow between elements?
– Patience and pacing?
– Simplicity?
– Emotional connection?

Which current skaters do you think still capture some of that quality today?

 

[noskates]

I think if you had asked this a few years ago I would have said - flow between elements, etc. We were in the age of quads, quads and more quads. I think skaters like Jason Brown aided in changing that mindset and also proved that you could win or be considerably successful without just the big jumps. Figure skating kind of went back towards the middle where presentation was almost as important. I think skaters like Jason, Donovan Carillo, Yuma Kagiyama, and Andrew Torgashev brought us back to the figure skating I fell in love with where the beauty of the sport combined with the athleticism of the skater. There IS an emotional connection to the music and it's not just a backdrop to the next jump. Ilia started out as just a jumper and now he's worked hard to add that presentation quality to his programs.

 

[yfan1]

Lyra Angelica stands out in how it had 8 jumps but no step sequences. Which is the biggest thing missing in skating now - freedom.

 

[4everchan]

I grew up watching programs that had themes or stories : Browning's Casablanca, Candeloro's D'Artagnan etc

Skaters would bring stories to the ice and actually their movements were often matching the music. That created variety year after year as for instance, Candeloro's step sequence for D'Artagnan, with the swording wouldn't be something found in another program. It was specific to that one theme.

Nowadays, skaters, I would say, are better athletes than in the past. However, not much looks specific to programs anymore. Even special tricks are used and reused no matter what music is played.

So, I find that choreography and musical interpretation are the things that were neglected in the last 10-20 years.

There are always a couple great skaters or great programs every year.. but if you are going to watch the entire LP at worlds, it gets boring very fast.

So this means less diversity and originality and I would agree that the lack of freedom (because of the sport's requirements) is a big deal.

 

[noskates]

Just thought of something else.........once we left the 6.0 era and went to the point system, much of a skater's program is trying to get every last point. The result has been some awkward transitions and prolonged spins that weren't always esthetically pleasing. The in-betweens were full of edge changes and foot changes that were designed for points rather than fluidity. The backloaded programs that some do - again to get the most points - made for programs that didn't necessarily interpret the music. The one major thing the point system did was allow a skater to fall once or twice and still not lose if the rest of their program was successfully executed. I still have a hard time seeing a skater walk off with a gold medal when they've spent some time on their keester on the ice. Fortunately we have some very, very good choreographers that have managed to over come those issues.

 

[TontoK]

Lovely basic moves held and extended.

Angela Nikodinov's layback, Brian Boitano's outside spread eagle with that fabulous lean, open single axels where men look like they've taken flight.

None of the moves are necessarily difficult for top skaters, but it must be incredibly difficult to do them really, really well - to go beyond "doing" the element and "demonstrating mastery" of the element.

 

[4everchan]

Some of it is certainly due to the IJS like the leveled spins and steps, but it's also due to the fact that skaters no longer train figures and skills that don't get them points. Too much emphasis on quads

 

[TontoK]

There are always a couple great skaters or great programs every year.. but if you are going to watch the entire LP at worlds, it gets boring very fast.

I really hate to admit this, but I've drifted towards behavior I've always looked down my nose at... and that's watching only the final two groups.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I’m also for positions being held longer and extension. If you gave a GOE bullet that was tangible you would see skaters taking their time to finish their elements. Eg in the ChSp every field movement must be held a minimum of 3 seconds in the final position of the spiral/spread eagle/etc. In a jump or spin a skater who holds the landing for 2 seconds on an outside edge with good carriage and stable body position from the moment of landing or exiting the spin gets higher GOE. It would also distinguish skaters who legit have control versus those who try to hide a balance check or rush onwards to the next movement/choreo.

 

[ManyCairns]

Time and freedom from point-getting to let a moment or move breathe, to hold it and let it really say what it needs to say. A long, lovely spiral or ina bauer, or a spin that doesn't do so many position changes because one of them is just right, or even time to show you can fly across the ice with only a few crossovers while the music swells.

Remember when programs could end with a stunning scratch spin that stopped just with the final note of music?

 

[TallyT]

With all due respect - and this is just my opinion - I think the main question is a furphy.

Holding up one of Kwan's absolute greatest skates as an example rather than an exemplar is like holding up Eleanor Powell in Broadway Melody and saying 'what is modern dance lacking that they can't do this?" and ignoring the fact that most of them couldn't do it either. Had a lesser skater - which means pretty much anyone who wasn't Yuna Kim, I may find Kwan offputting but I recognise her brilliance and stature - done the exact same program (well, to the level they could), it probably would have dated fast and been forgotten among the dusty corners of the internet.

Though to answer another of the questions, there are no women right now who are among the absolute 'greatest' (I have hopes of a couple of the juniors I've been watching). Which is okay. There are plenty of times in history when there hasn't been.

 

[gsk8]

With all due respect - and this is just my opinion - I think the main question is a furphy.

Holding up one of Kwan's absolute greatest skates as an example rather than an exemplar is like holding up Eleanor Powell in Broadway Melody and saying 'what is modern dance lacking that they can't do this?" and ignoring the fact that most of them couldn't do it either.

Why not use Kwan as an example?

The question is not “Why can’t current skaters be like Kwan?” The questions posed were:

What qualities from older programs do you think are missing most in modern skating?

Which current skaters do you think still capture some of that quality today?

Using a great skater to illustrate those qualities doesn’t necessarily mean anyone is claiming she was “typical” of her era. The point is to discuss whether certain aspects of skating and performance are emphasized differently now.

 

[Jhar55]

Artistry, nowadays all about the jumps.

 

[TallyT]

Why not use Kwan as an example?

The question is not “Why can’t current skaters be like Kwan?” The questions posed were:

What qualities from older programs do you think are missing most in modern skating?

Which current skaters do you think still capture some of that quality today?

Using a great skater to illustrate those qualities doesn’t necessarily mean anyone is claiming she was “typical” of her era. The point is to discuss whether certain aspects of skating and performance are emphasized differently now.

It is because, as I said, to me she and her program are exemplars - pretty much the most so, at least for Americans - not examples. And what is missing now from that exemplar... was missing in everyone else's skating then too. No skaters now capture those qualities but none did then either if old youtube is any indication (okay, for me Sash Cohen did just with her spirals and lines. No one else I can think of.)

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a whole lot of older programs and the different pleasures they have. Like pretty much every form of entertainment, over time the chaff fades away and is lost and we end up looking at just the best and unconsciously assuming that was the norm then: literature and music are very big areas for this. Which is why I am always uncomfortable with nostalgia, and that is a 'me' thing. Obviously everyone'sMMV, especially with people coming at the matter from different viewpoints. As I said, it was just my opinion.

 

[nat01]

Some programs age.
Others still feel timeless.

Programs like Michelle Kwan’s “Lyra Angelica” were not built around maximum technical difficulty; they were built around flow, musical phrasing, and complete connection to the ice.

Effortless glide
Softness and control between elements
Movement that matched the music naturally

Today’s skating is faster, more difficult, and more technical than ever. But programs like this still raise interesting questions:

What qualities from older programs do you think are missing most in modern skating?

– Flow between elements?
– Patience and pacing?
– Simplicity?
– Emotional connection?

Which current skaters do you think still capture some of that quality today?

What do you feel is missing from modern figure skating, if anything?

Is it possible to see one more live performance from Scott Hamilton?

 

[ladyjane]

Although I remember some old programmes very well, there are also many I don't. The same with programmes today. Some I will remember even after many years, some I just won't. I would love to see more flow and to be honest more extended spirals and Ina Bauers. But there are skaters who can do these within IJS even if they don't get many points for these things. Junhwan Cha's Ina Bauer comes to mind.

I love watching well executed spirals which cover a lot of ice and take more time per position, but for every well executed one in the past (and Kwan even made a simple one with the change of edge midway her signature move that came back in (almost) every programme) there were many not executed well or just awful to look at. Well, some skaters include them nowadays as well, with not many points to get but they can be very crowd pleasing. Some skaters still love the cheering on by a crowd more than getting results (even if of course they would love the results as well, that goes without saying).

I also love the stories - the d'Artagnan by Philippe and Casablanca by Kurt I remember very well, and still like to watch once in a while, but they seem not so much to depend on 6.0 but on the people who executed them. I also still watch Jason Brown's Schindler's list (very much after IJS) and his River Dance or Josefin Taljegard's Joker programme. I remember Natalja and Artur's Olympic programme from 1994 and the way it was performed so powerfully to the music of the Piano Concerto #2 by Sergei Rachmaninoff (where they came second) much more than the Free Programme when they won a gold a couple of years before. I recall Aljona and Bruno's Free skate at the OG in 2018 as well, that's one I can watch over and over, but that's after IJS.

I love Jane and Chris's Paso Double (also with a story as Jane was the cape) even more than their Bolero, I love Marina and Gwendal's Romeo and Juliet, as well as Shae-Lynn and Victor's River Dance. But then I also love Gabriëlla and Guillaume's Legend Rhythm Dance, and Laurence and the same Guillaume's Whale Free Dance. I am going to forget all the RD's of the season just ended, but I still remember Tessa and Scott's Prince RD from 2016-2017 (all after IJS). The Dune Free Dances (both of them) by Olivia and Tim will also be remembered fondly.

I personally think it's not so much the 6.0 system that makes us remember some programmes so fondly, as the performers who knew/know how to make something special even with less difficult jumps and perhaps simpeler spins. There are still such performers going strong with memorable programmes. Some of them too cluttered and too much focused on the getting of points, but so many also beautiful and with the flow

Sorry for rambling on a bit.

 

[Adeline14]

Time and freedom from point-getting to let a moment or move breathe, to hold it and let it really say what it needs to say. A long, lovely spiral or ina bauer, or a spin that doesn't do so many position changes because one of them is just right, or even time to show you can fly across the ice with only a few crossovers while the music swells.

Remember when programs could end with a stunning scratch spin that stopped just with the final note of music?

This.

 

[yfan1]

Had a lesser skater - which means pretty much anyone who wasn't Yuna Kim, I may find Kwan offputting but I recognise her brilliance and stature - done the exact same program (well, to the level they could), it probably would have dated fast and been forgotten among the dusty corners of the internet.

Hmm, this got me thinking who could do that Lyra Angelica :lol:

I actually feel Janet Lynn of the ones before Kwan, who had a similar way of expressing herself. Early Kwan seemed to draw on Lynn's skating.

It's actually Kwan's later programs that seem most Yuna-esque in terms of how they used to express themselves. However, I think it's Mao who suits that Lori Nichol choreo better.

 

[nat01]

Although I remember some old programmes very well, there are also many I don't. The same with programmes today. Some I will remember even after many years, some I just won't. I would love to see more flow and to be honest more extended spirals and Ina Bauers. But there are skaters who can do these within IJS even if they don't get many points for these things. Junhwan Cha's Ina Bauer comes to mind.

I love watching well executed spirals which cover a lot of ice and take more time per position, but for every well executed one in the past (and Kwan even made a simple one with the change of edge midway her signature move that came back in (almost) every programme) there were many not executed well or just awful to look at. Well, some skaters include them nowadays as well, with not many points to get but they can be very crowd pleasing. Some skaters still love the cheering on by a crowd more than getting results (even if of course they would love the results as well, that goes without saying).

I also love the stories - the d'Artagnan by Philippe and Casablanca by Kurt I remember very well, and still like to watch once in a while, but they seem not so much to depend on 6.0 but on the people who executed them. I also still watch Jason Brown's Schindler's list (very much after IJS) and his River Dance or Josefin Taljegard's Joker programme. I remember Natalja and Artur's Olympic programme from 1994 and the way it was performed so powerfully to the music of the Piano Concerto #2 by Sergei Rachmaninoff (where they came second) much more than the Free Programme when they won a gold a couple of years before. I recall Aljona and Bruno's Free skate at the OG in 2018 as well, that's one I can watch over and over, but that's after IJS.

I love Jane and Chris's Paso Double (also with a story as Jane was the cape) even more than their Bolero, I love Marina and Gwendal's Romeo and Juliet, as well as Shae-Lynn and Victor's River Dance. But then I also love Gabriëlla and Guillaume's Legend Rhythm Dance, and Laurence and the same Guillaume's Whale Free Dance. I am going to forget all the RD's of the season just ended, but I still remember Tessa and Scott's Prince RD from 2016-2017 (all after IJS). The Dune Free Dances (both of them) by Olivia and Tim will also be remembered fondly.

I personally think it's not so much the 6.0 system that makes us remember some programmes so fondly, as the performers who knew/know how to make something special even with less difficult jumps and perhaps simpeler spins. There are still such performers going strong with memorable programmes. Some of them too cluttered and too much focused on the getting of points, but so many also beautiful and with the flow

Sorry for rambling on a bit.

More with the normal public television as,to give more details about the sport besides showing the sports page.

 

[gsk8]

It is because, as I said, to me she and her program are exemplars - pretty much the most so, at least for Americans - not examples. And what is missing now from that exemplar... was missing in everyone else's skating then too. No skaters now capture those qualities but none did then either if old youtube is any indication (okay, for me Sash Cohen did just with her spirals and lines. No one else I can think of.)

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a whole lot of older programs and the different pleasures they have. Like pretty much every form of entertainment, over time the chaff fades away and is lost and we end up looking at just the best and unconsciously assuming that was the norm then: literature and music are very big areas for this. Which is why I am always uncomfortable with nostalgia, and that is a 'me' thing. Obviously everyone'sMMV, especially with people coming at the matter from different viewpoints. As I said, it was just my opinion.

OK, other quick examples have been added to the OP

Yuka Sato — Adagio Sostenuto
Lu Chen — Butterfly Lovers Concerto
Kurt Browning — Casablanca, Nyah
Paul Wylie — Bring Him Home
Alexei Yagudin — Winter
Sasha Cohen — Swan Lake