Me too. Wished there was a way to open the videos up (maybe not for commenting) to subscribers from before the current scandal. That would seem a safe, well-meaning and appreciative crowd. I can't believe how people like Dave who regularly spent so much time helping the sport stay relevant, find themselves fearing for their safety. Hope it blows over soon. Thanks for the videos while they lasted, Dave.
What Happened to TSL?
- Thread starter WesleyFox
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Me too. Wished there was a way to open the videos up (maybe not for commenting) to subscribers from before the current scandal. That would seem a safe, well-meaning and appreciative crowd. I can't believe how people like Dave who regularly spent so much time helping the sport stay relevant, find themselves fearing for their safety. Hope it blows over soon. Thanks for the videos while they lasted, Dave.
This has all gotten so out of hand. It isn't TSL's fault or anyone else's fault that John Coughlin chose to take his own life. It seems everyone is looking for someone to blame. I don't know what John did or didn't do, but the ultimate responsibility for ending his life lies with him, not social media or TSL or anyone else. I'm sorry for his family's loss.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
Death threats??? Its really getting out of hand.
Its not Dave Lease/TSL or Christine Brennan's fault John Coughlin decided to commit suicide. The others(gymnastics, taekwando) who are suspended are fighting it out, in court and whatever legal means.
Though Dave Lease is in greater danger cos he doesnt have a media company's backing/support like Christine.
If TSL didn't discuss the suspension, likely no one would have. Much of the general population like us would not have known about the suspensions had it not been for TSL. For good or for bad, it is certainly possible that without TSL, John would be still with us today. Let's try to sugar-coat anything, this is certainly possible.
That is not to say that TSL is responsible AT ALL. Dave could not have possibly know what would have happened, and he wasn't doing anything wrong himself. Of course it is not TSL's *fault* John committed suicide. But without their discussions, it is possible John would not have. I think people are either on the side that TSL is at fault for John's death, or they had nothing to do with it. They could have precipitated it at no fault of their own.
And thus, it is probably smart to have a hiatus.
You're right, I agree
I was unaware of all of this, but now that i read DailyMail article that mentions TSL, i understand why this happened, i guess death threats came from people who blamed them for John's suicide.
We shouldn't take sides in this, cause you can't say this is TSL fault, but i feel they are one of many reasons why this happened, and sometimes they went too far with the bashing, and people can react in different ways to this, they can take it personally, maybe a good choice for them to stay quiet for a while.
We shouldn't take sides in this, cause you can't say this is TSL fault, but i feel they are one of many reasons why this happened, and sometimes they went too far with the bashing, and people can react in different ways to this, they can take it personally, maybe a good choice for them to stay quiet for a while.
Did you watch the videos, or are you going off of prior opinions about TSL? Just curious. They have said things I have strongly disagreed with in the past, but I found them neutral in their reporting of this case. They were the most speculative/critical about the environment in skating (and perhaps could have held off on that until we knew more), but they were always very careful to say that Coughlin being accused does not mean he was guilty.
I found the coverage on this very tame and level-headed, which makes the death threats somehow even more concerning.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
It's an unfortunate amalgamation of the skating community trying to "protect their own" to save their own butts, the backlash against the MeToo movement, and, well, pure insanity.
I saw that a lot of the Twitter accounts that spoke out against the situation have actually been set on private. Shame.
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
There is no excuse for death threats, no matter what anyone thinks someone did or is responsible for.
I also disagree with reporting unsubstantiated rumors, regardless of whether or not there is some truth to them, on such a public platform as TSL, especially when the investigation stipulates that the accused is not allowed to respond/defend himself. SafeSport was handling things. IMO, this did not need to go national/international, or at least the reporting should have been only the facts and not unproven interpretations of them.
This whole situation is just a giant mess. I do not agree with how TSL handled the John Coughlin situation, but nothing excuses death threats.
Also, let's not confuse a vocal, trouble-making minority with the skating community at large, nor confuse ugly human nature with something specific to the skating community. Plenty of other communities/fandoms have lobbed threats at people. It's not unique to skating.
I also disagree with reporting unsubstantiated rumors, regardless of whether or not there is some truth to them, on such a public platform as TSL, especially when the investigation stipulates that the accused is not allowed to respond/defend himself. SafeSport was handling things. IMO, this did not need to go national/international, or at least the reporting should have been only the facts and not unproven interpretations of them.
This whole situation is just a giant mess. I do not agree with how TSL handled the John Coughlin situation, but nothing excuses death threats.
Also, let's not confuse a vocal, trouble-making minority with the skating community at large, nor confuse ugly human nature with something specific to the skating community. Plenty of other communities/fandoms have lobbed threats at people. It's not unique to skating.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Sorry, but this "other communities do it too" always rings hollow, and like you're trying to shrug it off.
This specific incident is entirely related to the skating community at large. Even if it's a vocal minority, the skating community at large must introspect and fix the issues. It has let it foster, now it must fix it. The same can be said to the other communities.
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
I started that post with, "There is no excuse for death threats, no matter what anyone thinks someone did or is responsible for." That's not shrugging anything off.
All I was saying was that this is a social media/human nature problem. People have gotten death threats on Youtube and Twitter for their clothing and hairstyles and favorite video game couples. Trying to treat it as skating-specific is like trying to treat the flu as specific to your own workplace. If you only wash your hands when coming home from work but not when coming home from shopping trips and friends' houses, you're not at much less risk. Of course, that doesn't mean stop washing your hands after work. Yes, some of the skating community needs to introspect and fix the issues... but so does the rest of social media, every other sport, and the rest of humanity.
I also want to lend my support to Dave. He has been very professional throughout this entire situation. I thought his recent interview with Christine Brennan was very level-headed and shed important light on journalistic responsibility.
It is a shame that the situation has come to this, especially when Dave is so passionate about and has done so much to promote skating. He is absolutely not responsible for John's suicide, and anyone who suggests that lacks understanding of the complexities of such an outcome.
It is a shame that the situation has come to this, especially when Dave is so passionate about and has done so much to promote skating. He is absolutely not responsible for John's suicide, and anyone who suggests that lacks understanding of the complexities of such an outcome.
I also want to add that, amidst this situation, which has been very difficult for Dave with all the attacks on him, he still put out new, unrelated content for his viewers - a review of Canadian nationals and an interview with the women (woman? I didn't have a chance to watch that video before it was taken down, so I'm not sure if there was one guest or more.) from the CBC documentary about adult skaters. I thought the review video was well done, as always, and showed his commitment to the skating community.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
But what did he report that was not the facts? Coughlin was being investigated and therefore restricted by Safe Sport. Those are facts. This restriction was then elevated due to the investigation finding new information and the allegations involved misconduct with minors. Reporting on the restriction and the nature of the allegations are facts, not unsubstantiated rumors.
Unless I’m mistaken, at no point did TSL or Brennan mention any details about the allegations other than that they involved sexual misconduct and that minors were involved. This is the purpose of Safe Sport, a government sanctioned entity funded by tax payers. We therefore have a right to know about investigations. No details about the actual allegations were released so I don’t see how coughlin was prevented from refuting these details. He was able to issue a public statement about his innocence so he was able to respond.
I can’t understand how TSL or any journalist could be blamed for reporting about public restrictions coming from a investigation by a tax payer funded organization set up with the main purpose of protect children from sexual abuse. I do think there are some legitimate concerns related to how Safe Sport is run and how to prevent coaches from losing their livelihood during an investigation. But that’s not the fault of journalists, if anything they are calling attention to the issues of Safe Sport as it exists now.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2014
Unfortunately TSL is a victim of their own "history"
They have tended to gossip and 'sensationalize' in the past so even if they do try to be factual their reputation precedes them.
Just like skaters with known "under rotation" get more strictly judged than skaters without that problem, reporters with known "gossip tendencies" get more scrutinized that reputable journalists. (Remember his Starr Andrews comments????)
If you gossip and trash talk don't be surprised when people assume everything you do reflects that approach.
Personally I won't miss the show as I didn't believe in supporting "drama just to create an audience"
They have tended to gossip and 'sensationalize' in the past so even if they do try to be factual their reputation precedes them.
Just like skaters with known "under rotation" get more strictly judged than skaters without that problem, reporters with known "gossip tendencies" get more scrutinized that reputable journalists. (Remember his Starr Andrews comments????)
If you gossip and trash talk don't be surprised when people assume everything you do reflects that approach.
Personally I won't miss the show as I didn't believe in supporting "drama just to create an audience"
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
People behind computer screens often behave as if they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
I, for one, appreciate any and all media attention that skating gets because the sport needs exposure. TSL does that along with others and, contrary to what some believe, there is no money in it. It is a labour of love.
I think most of us understand that no one deserves death threats.
I, for one, appreciate any and all media attention that skating gets because the sport needs exposure. TSL does that along with others and, contrary to what some believe, there is no money in it. It is a labour of love.
I think most of us understand that no one deserves death threats.
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They were inappropriate. They also have nothing to do with this case.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Carolla, you're missing the point. Their gossiping history doesn't invalidate the PUBLIC information they were sharing, nor does it make them open to death threats.
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