What will the 2010/2011 bring us in ICE DANCE?

[herios]

I'm afraid I was the one that threw 'anointed' out there..but I was saying that Lane and Razgulajevs have emerged as the anointed coaches in the last 2-3 years. Seems almost no other coaches get much mention or praise.. then trains mentioned that SkateCanada was looking to P/I to be the next V/M. Gr-r-r-r.. I hate it whenever they start the "next one" nonsense. I always feel they're just asking to get smacked down.Oh ,I know, when you first see Alexandra Paul you can't help but be struck by how like Tessa she is.But that's putting a heavy burden on her and I wish they'd resist.
All things being equal, if anyone can threaten C/P's second team status, I would think it would be W/P. As I said, unless R/H have undergone massive development in the off-season, I don't think they can overtake W/P this year. But R/H could be overtaken by P/I, not to mention possibly some of the other senior teams , depending, of course on off season improvement..e.g. are Harvey /Gagnon still together ? How have they progressed ? They weren't all that terribly far behind R/H last year..

Sorry Coleen, if I am going to be blunt here, but where is this P/I hype coming from? Based on what, their world silver medal? Alexandra’s looks like Tessa’s? is that important? How so?
You know, I am Canadian as well, and I wish we would have as many great teams as possible, but as a statistician, I will say stats are not lying and I don’t like what I am seeing in their stats.
If this team is that great, how come they regressed and stagnated from 2006-09 and now with one good result in 2010, suddenly they are the next V/M? Let’s be a little realistic here.
P/I are exactly the same age as C/P (19/20) just in reverse order. So their upside potential should be similar in age terms.
But here is what I don’t like.
In 2006 P/I were AHEAD of C/P 4th and respectively 6th in juniors in Canada. And what happened next year? C/P went on and won the next nationals, vaulting over P/I finishing 1st and P/I 2nd.
C/P moved on to seniors and had progressed ever since, now being 7th at the senior worlds after their second appearance, while P/I regressed in 2008-9 in the junior league in Canada, and took them 2 more years until finally became Canadian junior champions….
So now, please explain to me how this team is deemed the next V/M when they have not been even measured to any senior teams in Canada, and considering how slow they have progressed?

 

[herios]

C&P had great success at Worlds and they are still very young, especially Paul Poirier, so there's lots of room for improvement in that team yet. When Paul finishes maturing physically (and emotionally moves from boy to man) look out! Vanessa seems to be improving her posture/positions too. They will be a very powerful, athletic team.

This is something I agree with. C/P have been getting huge technical marks for a new team on the senior tour, because they can do and handle very difficult elements in their routines and is not that Skate Canada promotes their coaches, but they have innovative choreography which raises attention and appreciation from the international judges. With some more maturity and work on their presentation and packaging ( a new wardrobe consultant would be welcomed, Vanessa and Paul will be a podium bound at worlds sooner or later. They are VERY GOOD dancers!

 

[callalily]

P/I regressed in 2008-9 in the junior league in Canada, and took them 2 more years until finally became Canadian junior champions….
So now, please explain to me how this team is deemed the next V/M when they have not been even measured to any senior teams in Canada, and considering how slow they have progressed?

There's bit of confusion here....P/I are a very new team - they've been skating together for just over a year. Mitchell Islam used to skate with Joanna Lenko and the Lenko/Islam pair were neck-and-neck with Crone/Poirier as juniors (both teams qualified for the JGPF) before Joanna Lenko had to retire due to health problems. Mitchell Islam then sat out from competition until he was partnered with Alexandra Paul. P/I have made very rapid progress in the short time they've been together.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Yes thanks, callalily..P/I have only been together since Feb. 2009 and won silver at Jr Worlds in their first year together...Hence the hoopla..and going by what meagre reports have come out so far this summer..they've progressed very rapidly again, in the intervening few months.

I didn't start the fuss and I certainly wasn't the one who started the "next V/M" rumblings ( although I was amazed at the short time they'd been together when I watched P/I at Jr Worlds)..I'm just taking it all in and trying to put it all together.

I said nothing against C/P..I'm very much a C/P booster ! I know they're very good and , really, they've had some pretty good choreography. It does irk me that, considering how long they've been together,and how good they are , they're having to push to improve posture now..has that been largely ignored all those years ?..And if your students are that good, you should see to it that they have every chance to advance. Don't hold them back with poor packaging.They've been 2nd nationally for how many yrs.? What have L/R been waiting for in the packaging dept.?. The money they must have spent on all the various trial and error costumes last year..would have been better spent by going to a better designer to begin with. I say this stuff because I think highly of C/P and I want to see them do well. I'm excited to see what CD has done for/with them this yr.

Actually, I think highly of Lane/ Razgulajevs as well.. I just think they need to be a bit more self-critical . They need to be looking at how they can improve their school , for their own benefit and the benefit of their skaters. Sometimes it's hard to see the need when everyone is already telling you how good you are. Is that going on ? I don't know. I just know I keep seeing the same weaknesses on the ice.

Unless P/I are really as good as the over -the-moon hype suggests ,I don't think they can match C/P ( not this year & maybe not next. Beyond that , I wouldn't hazard a guess , if they keep progressing at that rate.)... But compared to R/H ?..that's another matter. David Islam seems to have done a good job with P/I so far, and if his team has a coaching weakness , it isn't showing in either posture or packaging, so L/R need to look to their laurels.

We know it often helps skaters to have a close competitor..maybe it will be the same with coaches.

 

[herios]

There's bit of confusion here....P/I are a very new team - they've been skating together for just over a year. Mitchell Islam used to skate with Joanna Lenko and the Lenko/Islam pair were neck-and-neck with Crone/Poirier as juniors (both teams qualified for the JGPF) before Joanna Lenko had to retire due to health problems. Mitchell Islam then sat out from competition until he was partnered with Alexandra Paul. P/I have made very rapid progress in the short time they've been together.

Thanks Callalily for pointing this one out. Then we can throw my statistics out the window, they were picked up from Alexandra Paul's bio, she had skated also with another partner before Islam. Then it remains to be seen how they will measure up against the senior teams. I will still be on the fence until I am seeing that, as there is always a gap to fill between junior and seniors in ice dance, in many of both technical and artistical apect of the skating.

 

[KKonas]

I want to see how D&W incorporate the twizzles and steps into a waltz, and still make it look like a waltz. They are doing an all waltz OD to the Amelie MST.

Since they have changed to LaTraviata and La Boheme for the waltz SD with big sweeping moves, the twizzles fit in quite well.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Gee..someone on FSU is reporting that the Artic Edge Arena has invited the public to view their Ice Dancers' programs this Friday at 10 A.M.

Will we have any eyes and ears in attendance ?

 

[herios]

Yes thanks, callalily..P/I have only been together since Feb. 2009 and won silver at Jr Worlds in their first year together...Hence the hoopla..and going by what meagre reports have come out so far this summer..they've progressed very rapidly again, in the intervening few months.

I have now read the article about Paul and Islam and learned more about them. I am very glad to see Canadian ice dance having such bright prospects. The more good teams push each other the better for them overall, the depth will just help the team on the world stage. My ultimate dream is to have 2 canadian teams on the podium , like the Soviet union / Russia used to have for decades and why not, until V/M retire, it is quite possible for the second Canadian team to oull up. C/P have quite good prospects at the moment, 6th seed and with 3 veteran teams ahead of them.
Anyway, where Paul and Islam will be able to enter in the Canadian rankings in their first senior year is to be seen, but to expect them right away to be the next V/M is more than a stretch. V/M placed 6th at their first senior WC and that is a rarity, only soviet teams were able to do that in the days when they had 3 teams in the top 6. Even T/D debuted at 11th. That is why, I will not express my enthusiasm about Paul /Islam, and see what they are able to achieve in the first year.
V.M debuted at 6th, C/P at 12th and W/P at 18th at their first worlds. Will Paul and Islam crack the top 3 at Canadians? That is a big question mark, because W/P had finished the year with momentum and a very good result (4CC). In any case, whichever will be our 3rd team. at worlds will be good enough to challenge for the top 10.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

herios, I tend to agree. P/I, as talented as they are, and as rapid as their success has been, are still going to be behind the top three Canadian teams. Hell, even Virtue/Moir were fourth at Canadians their first senior trip (04/05 season). The question for me is by how much. While I can see them eclipsing Ralph/Hill this season (they'll be lucky to make a senior worlds with the depth in ice dancing we have) it'll take a lot of work to drive by Weaver/Poje, who finished last season with some momentum (and just missing out on a hometown Olympics has got to be added fuel to the fire).

That stated, I am truly stunned at just how much Paul/Islam have improved since World juniors. And I'll agree, if we have two teams on the podium (preferably in London ) I will be a very happy person indeed. But that's putting the cart before the horse.

 

[herios]

herios, I tend to agree. P/I, as talented as they are, and as rapid as their success has been, are still going to be behind the top three Canadian teams. Hell, even Virtue/Moir were fourth at Canadians their first senior trip (04/05 season). The question for me is by how much. While I can see them eclipsing Ralph/Hill this season (they'll be lucky to make a senior worlds with the depth in ice dancing we have) it'll take a lot of work to drive by Weaver/Poje, who finished last season with some momentum (and just missing out on a hometown Olympics has got to be added fuel to the fire).

That stated, I am truly stunned at just how much Paul/Islam have improved since World juniors. And I'll agree, if we have two teams on the podium (preferably in London ) I will be a very happy person indeed. But that's putting the cart before the horse.

IP, no, I am taking one step at a time, I won't forecast here anything, things can happen (God forbid, like Tessa's surgery in 2008, who would've thought?). But one can dream, as all these athletes are unbelievably young, the olders in the whole bunch are Anrew Poje and Scott Moir, only 23, so, if they want to stay in and develop they could last and grow many more years. I am just enjoying it, and say I am lucky to witness the whole thing.
And yes, even if Paul and Islam will be only 4th this year at canadians, that would be a respectable result imo, The jeopardy of a debut with a bang and then not do much for a while, like Weaver and Poje did, is what I am afraid of. They also managed to win right away a bronze at canadians in 2007, after just a few months together, a bronze at junior worlds and then in 2008-09, they have stagnated. That is wjhy I am skeptical about all the fuss, until i am seeing the international judges feedback.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Talk about an embarrassment of riches. We are so lucky to be witnessing this burgeoning of talent in ice dance.
I've posted so often here about P/I that it may have started to sound like I was proclaiming them rulers of the universe, or something.(That's why I was so glad to see that article about them, and I could stop trying to explain myself.)
I agree that 4th place at Nat's would be an excellent result for P/I and quite possibly attainable..5th would still be pretty good for them, since it would still guarantee their funding. (Isn't the cut-off still 5th place, in Canada ?)
I'll also be very interested to see their marks and how they negotiate the transition to Sr's. The international judges at the Jr. level received them well last year, as they came from out of nowhere then , too.
I'm feeling sort of "comeback kid-ish" about W/P and at the same time ,I'm thrilled that C/P went to Chris Dean. I'd actually be glad if R/H put all my fears for them to rest .
The fact is, I like all these teams and don't know who to cheer for first ( apart from V/M, of course )..and there's always the possibility that someone else will come along and take us by surprise ....oh, poor us!

 

[chipso1]

For the U.S., Davis/White and Samuelson/Bates are almost nearly locked in as 1 and 2. Fighting for bronze at Nationals will be the Hubbells, Chock/Zuerlein and the Shibutanis. The Shibs are definitely on the rise, and while they've always been technically sound, I think Maia's new growth spurt will give them a more mature, senior look on the ice. I was impressed with the Hubbells at both Nationals and 4CC, and think they will definitely be in the podium hunt, too. As for Chock/Zuerlein, they didn't appear to be well-received by the int'l judges last season, so it will be interesting to see how they fare this year.

I would be shocked if those ^ teams weren't the top 5 at Nationals this year, though Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt or Cannuscio/Lorello could very well be spoilers.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Urk! how did that big red NEWS get up there ? Sorry, can't figure out how to remove it...

I'm so looking forward to see S/B's new programs. AAinP should be fabulous for them. They could be poised to make a surge this year.
As for depth, the US is also in an enviable position.

 

[colleen o'neill]

V/M! SD ! First look !....http://www.youtube.com/user/mysticjade5#p/u/6/E3Y2G4GkuNU
Also someone sais that these 3 pieces of music are listed for V/M at ATS; La, and they are supposed to debut their FD there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv9DiWM6rg8&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbej3bEnPfk&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-9-HM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTt3LHF9S0

Eh? Eh?....

 

[herios]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTt3LHF9S0

Eh? Eh?....

Thnaks a lot Coleen, very much appreciated.

This last peice of samba(Mujer latina), I recognized immediately, it was part of Fusar-Poli - Margaglio's OD from 2000, just a slower paced version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y66wJ5mfRtY
This one which V/M are going to use is a lot faster, have no idea how could it be matched with steps on the ice is crazy fast.

 

[herios]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTt3LHF9S0

Eh? Eh?....

Thnaks a lot Coleen, very much appreciated.

This last peice of samba(Mujer latina), I recognized immediately, it was part of Fusar-Poli - Margaglio's OD from 2000, just a slower paced version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y66wJ5mfRtY
This one which V/M are going to use is a lot faster, have no idea how could it be matched with steps on the ice is crazy fast.

On another note, these are musical choices in total opposition with what they were recently doing and I am glad to see that they want to showcase versatility.

 

[herios]

V/M! SD ! First look !....http://www.youtube.com/user/mysticjade5#p/u/6/E3Y2G4GkuNU
Also someone sais that these 3 pieces of music are listed for V/M at ATS; La, and they are supposed to debut their FD there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv9DiWM6rg8&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbej3bEnPfk&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-9-HM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTt3LHF9S0

Eh? Eh?....

Since yesterday, I listened a few times to this Krall song "Temptations" and I have to say, it is not at all what i was expecting. It's not a classical rhumba rythm, rather a bluesy jazz piece, but I have seen so many weird choices for rhumba in the dancing shows, that this could be sold as rhumba as well.
What i am hoping for is they have worked with some smart choreographers, to help them transpose the mood and nuances to the ice of thius really sultry piece of music.

 

[alithia]

I was pleasantly surprised by the choice for the rhumba.I was actually afraid we'll get to hear one of the classic skating rhumbas.It's jazzy and it suits them perfectly.I want to see how they interpret it on ice, and especially the two very fast paced sambas.Hiphip chinchin is perfect for beginning.
I guess nobody can accuse them for staying in their comfort zone this season.

 

[npa]

What do you think about V-M SD?

 

[colleen o'neill]

I've been thinking about that SD quite a bit , and the more I think about it the more I like it...Well, I mean, I'm not a convert to the whole idea of the SD ( yet), but considering that it is what we have to work with...

And considering that what we've seen is a modified version , I find lots to like. The first cut is really quite seamless, and the second , while noticeable, isn't jarring.( I trust that the technical difficulty will be there ) I like that it visually sort of forms a bridge between last year's FD and this year , in that they've chosen a light , romantic waltz with long lines, and that the pause at the second cut and the final pose are reminiscent of the Mahler program..Then, they're going to come back and zap us with the FD.

Maybe I'm thinking too much, or reading too much into it, but I get the sense of a continuing thread.."When we last saw our heroes..." , then continuing into the next episode.

Just on paper , I suspect there's a similar motivation/feeling with D/W opera SD combined with their tango FD.