What would top ten order of finish be for men: a)all with quads, b)all with jumps now

[euterpe]

The Olympics when all the men will skate cleanly is the day when the figure skating competition is held in Hades. And when all the men skate cleanly with quads, in the middle of the first Circle.

 

[soogar]

The Olympics when all the men will skate cleanly is the day when the figure skating competition is held in Hades. And when all the men skate cleanly with quads, in the middle of the first Circle.

Well it almost happened in Dortmund with the top 4 landing quads and the top 5 skating cleanly except for Plush's trip on a take off. I think the level of skating has gone up considerably and I expect that the Olympics will showcase a lot of fine performances. There are a lot of injured skaters making comebacks this year and I hope that they will raise the level of competition.

 

[slutskayafan21]

The thread wasnt neccessarily meant to be realistic, it was more meant as a fun thread.

I agree that Sandhu has been inconsistent for so long he is likely to always be that way, in fact is he even going to skate as an eligable skater after next year? It used to be the standard retirement age for men was 24/25, now it is more often 28/29. I really thought Emmanuel was going to win a medal of some color at the 2004 Worlds, he seemed to be riding some momentum of his big win at the GP final, he skated wonderfully at the Canadians, I thought he was finally maturing into the confident and focused champion everybody had been waiting for him to be. Before Worlds that year I thought Plushenko, Joubert, and Sandhu, would be the podium, although I had no idea on the order it would be. I was shocked when Sandhu melted down that particular year. Every year before that I didnt know what to expect, I was waiting for him to eventually get it together, 2004 was the first year I felt positive he would. Since then I have pretty much given up on it ever happening, and I think most Canadians have too.

In the case of Lambiel I am thinking, and hoping, a full year of being injury-free and healthy will help his consistency. I agree with those who say he has serious consistency problems right now, not nearly the enormity of Sandhu's consistency problems, but pretty substantial nonetheless. His quad actualy is one of his more consistent jumps, he occasionally misses it, but usually lands it clean. He has consistency problems on the triple axel and triple lutz, both those jumps are very inconsistent for him. He also gives away points by dragging the leg along the ice, or crouching down with his body and hands approaching the ice, like he did on 2 of his 3 jumps in the short program at Worlds which prevented a higher score than the 80+ he received, due to - scores on the quad and triple lutz. Hopefully he will have a full year healthy, so either way I can see if he is able to solve his consistency problems with a full year of training. If he doesnt he could be in trouble since I fully expect the level of skating in general to go far up next year, and those who dont will lose major ground from where they were this year.

 

[brad640]

I know that some people are frustrated by Plushenko's posing/resting and think this should be used to lower his marks, but it's interesting that one of the differentiatiors to achieve a Level 3 step sequence is "quick changes of speed." Similarly, if you look at the old, more detailed PCS guidelines, one of the factors to achieve the highest GOE for Skating Skills is "effortless speed," and for Performance Execution it is "superior control of pace of program."

Starting and stopping as Plushenko does may provide him with brief rests, but it also takes a lot of energy to ramp right back up, and the fact is that Plushy is like a race car - he goes from a complete stop to top speed in just a few steps. The judges rightfully reward him for this power.

BittyBug, that was great analysis of a controversial subject. If Plushenko/Mishin are correctly interpreting the rules for pacing that you quoted (and Plush’s PCS this season indicate that they are), then many of the other skaters must not understand the meaning of those rules.

Paul Wylie commended Plush during the Godfather on the GP for his changes of pace when he did the 2a at the end of his fast circular footwork, did the slow section with the 3loop and 3s, and then quickly escalated the speed back up at the end. Other than that, it seems that most skaters think the ideal is continuous flow across the ice with as much speed as possible throughout, and the only good stops are those that occur within the footwork sequences as required for footwork above level 1.

When Johnny did his infamous trash talking in 2004 about Plush’s pauses making him vulnerable, I think he must have based his remarks partly on what TT/Platov/Arena had been trying to achieve with him. Do those talented choreographers not understand the rules, or are they making a different interpretation?

I don’t know of many other skaters who intentionally choreograph starts and stops like Plushenko does. Bebe’s LP had more dramatic changes of speed than most American skaters, and Sasha does an abrupt stop at the end of her final spin. Buttle tried to hit his final pose directly out of the last spin in the LP at the GPF and he had an awkward moment where he looked off balance after the music had stopped, and he changed the ending for worlds. Otherwise, few skaters seem to be trying to imitate Plush’s style; in fact most seem to view it as a negative.

 

[curious]

Those skaters(I'm sure jealousy has nothing to do with those comments lol!) should try to imitate his consistency not something they can't his style

 

[Kasey]

PS. Van der Perren is better than Klimkin!

Them's fighting words Mathman! A clean Klimkin can factor in ANYWHERE (including gold!) :thumbsup:

 

[brad640]

Those skaters(I'm sure jealousy has nothing to do with those comments lol!) should try to imitate his consistency not something they can't his style

Unfortunately, Plushenko’s consistency is in question due to his numerous injuries. He could stand to learn from those skaters who took time off to treat their injuries before the Olympic season and those who limit their training of the quad to an Olympic year.

 

[chuckm]

Klimkin is an interesting and innovative skater. Unfortunately, he is just as inconsistent as Lambiel. Ilya has a tendency to skate brilliantly for the first 2/3 of his FS, then he tails off and makes mistakes.

 

[slutskayafan21]

"Just as inconsistent as Lambiel". I am sorry but while Lambiel does have consistency problems comparing him to Klimkin is a huge exaggeration.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Unfortunately, Plushenko’s consistency is in question due to his numerous injuries. He could stand to learn from those skaters who took time off to treat their injuries before the Olympic season and those who limit their training of the quad to an Olympic year.

Brad - What exactly are the numerous injuries? I would say half the population of the USA has had hernia problems that they took care of at the hospital and then moved on. It's not a big thing once it is taken care of.

If it's his knee(s)? He has skated excellently with these problems for the past 3 years and won gold medals. Yes, he should have had the surgery but Mishin knows best. I am presuming that he will continue through the Olys without surgery and more than likely get gold. The knees are just not in that bad a condition (yet).

Joe

 

[euterpe]

"Just as inconsistent as Lambiel". I am sorry but while Lambiel does have consistency problems comparing him to Klimkin is a huge exaggeration.

Not really. Klimkin HAS medaled at Europeans, something Lambiel has not managed to do.

 

[soogar]

Not really. Klimkin HAS medaled at Europeans, something Lambiel has not managed to do.

I love Klimkin, but that Euros performance was riddled with errors. Though that performance wasn't as bad as the one Stephane had to win Worlds.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Which are worse? Inconsistencies or Meltdowns?

Joe

 

[euterpe]

Yes, Klimkin's bronze medal performance at Euros 2004 was riddled with errors, but many said Ilya was robbed and should have won silver over Plushenko.

BTW, Lambiel finished 6th in that event, behind Lindemann. He skated OK in the QR and FS, but bombed the SP (12th).

 

[soogar]

Yes, Klimkin's bronze medal performance at Euros 2004 was riddled with errors, but many said Ilya was robbed and should have won silver over Plushenko.

BTW, Lambiel finished 6th in that event, behind Lindemann. He skated OK in the QR and FS, but bombed the SP (12th).

And Dambier felt that he was robbed out of the bronze....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

When we talk about Klimkin and Lambiel through the years, we are talking about major injuries. If you haven't skated with injuries, you have not been in their skates.

Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

I would take a World title over a European medal anyday. Medaling once at Europeans when Lambiel has not, does not show Klimkin is more consistent.
I have seen Lambiel do many more semi-clean long programs, clean short programs than Klimkin.

 

[2ndmark]

This is rather off point, but thought I'd throw it in anyway. Does anyone remember several years ago at some Pro-Am event when Sandhu cranked out an effortlessly beautiful 3T-3T-3T combination? Have never seen him attempt it again.

Joe you made my blood run cold when mentioning the possibility of poor TV coverage by NBC at the Olys. We can only hope that they will continue the "team coverage" approach (NBC, MSNBC, USA, etc.) that they used in Athens for the summer games. Maybe we'll have more coverage than ever. (Yeah, I know ... dream on.) On that same topic- wonder what kind of GP coverage we'll get next season?

 

[Vitacus]

When we talk about Klimkin and Lambiel through the years, we are talking about major injuries. If you haven't skated with injuries, you have not been in their skates.

Major injuries....you mean like Plush's painful bilateral inguinal hernias this season (which is now taken cared of), or his knee problems (which btw was officially diagnosed by an American expert in a clinic in Colorado who suggested operation), or maybe the pinched nerve (sciatic nerve) in the back which caused his breathing problems at Worlds this year (perhaps his body tried to over-compensate for the hurting groin area?), especially after the QR where he had trouble catching his breath. It was quite noticable in the QR (downloaded his QR skate), and also noticable in the interviews in the US fluff pieces before the SP and then later he also confirmed it. When did his injuries become minor in comparison? Just because he's still able to stand upright and skate?

I don't know, to me, they seem like major injuries as both knee- and groin injuries are the most common career killing injuries, just look at Urmanov and Stoijko.

Despite his injury stricken body he's still able to skate fairly consistent, at least enough to win, although it's been years since he last had a perfectly clean skate. He came pretty close at this years GPF if it hadn't been for that little mistake on one of his jumps (can't remember which one?). I'm sure the injuries plays a pretty big role as to why, like it would any normal skater.

He has stated many times over that he doesn't want to have the knee surgery because he's afraid that he won't recover, as surgery is always a risk (which may seem wrong to many, including me, but it's his decisions and it seems like he's very stubborn... ).

I'm sure there are other skater's with more serious injuries than his but there's no need to diminish Plush's.

 

[mpal2]

I'm not sure where the snub to Plushenko was. The argument was about Lambiel and Klimkin who have both had to take a lot of time off due to injury. Plushenko probably should have but we all know how that worked this year.