If one could only look at it in that way! My thinking is that at age 18, when Kimmie looks back at her accomplishments of only 2 short years ago--World gold at the age of 16--it must be terribly frustrating to see herself currently struggling for bronze (or less) with little hope for anything more in the forseeble future. Over the hill at 18? A sad thought. But that's what it must look like to a youngster. Let's face it, these skaters live and breathe skating--and have been doing so for years. In hindsight, luck (a la Kimmie's 2006 World's gold) can be a cruel thing. Perhaps too much too soon raises unrealistic high expectations. This, In turn, exacerbates the huge pressure on a success-oriented young adult to excel at such a highly competitive sport--on an international level. It's a difficult situation to find oneself in.
Whats going on with Kimmie?!?!
- Thread starter Phobiamaster856
- Start date
If one could only look at it in that way! My thinking is that at age 18, when Kimmie looks back at her accomplishments of only 2 short years ago--World gold at the age of 16--it must be terribly frustrating to see herself currently struggling for bronze (or less) with little hope for anything more in the forseeble future. Over the hill at 18? A sad thought. But that's what it must look like to a youngster. Let's face it, these skaters live and breathe skating--and have been doing so for years. In hindsight, luck (a la Kimmie's 2006 World's gold) can be a cruel thing. Perhaps too much too soon raises unrealistic high expectations. This, In turn, exacerbates the huge pressure on a success-oriented young adult to excel at such a highly competitive sport--on an international level. It's a difficult situation to find oneself in.
Perhaps, but in the end, I think looking back Meissner will be happy with her accomplishments... Honestly, I just don't think Meissner or her team is shocked finding herself in the position she was in. Sure maybe others put pressure on her to win, but I'm sure Kimmie knew that things would change once Mao and Yu-na came onto the scene.
Of course she knew, after all, in an interview for the japanesse press she said Mao was that complete package skater anyone would dream to be
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
In your thinking, what is your impression of skaters who never attain a gold world's medal?
Joe
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
After watching her performance I think it was skating after MAO that got to her. She was not herself. She got no lift off some of her jumps. So, I think it was just a bad performance. But, I still feel she needs some help in every direction. I just want to shake her and show her how to do a Layback spin. I don't feel that anyone that works with her makes an effort to show off her strengths. I feel more of her weaknesses are still on display. She has those long arms and legs just hanging around doing nothing. I don't know if that is a coaches job or a choreographers job, but they aren't helping her at all.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
I think we all needs to come down now. The GPF was probably just a bad nite. I mean her short program was good. Puberty idk about that I don't c a change at all. It's hard to predict what will happen next since mao and yu na are inflated and overmarked. I love those two but I mean it is getting clearer and clearer the judges favor them. Kimmie's just going through a lil slump. People have expect so much from her its hard to live up to it. She still made so nice improvements last year and her artistry has gotten better with this Nessun Dorma program. She'll do fine all skaters have their ups and downs this isn't the end. Just like Mao not skating a good short program this season. It's not the end of any skater.
My thinking is that 90 percent of skaters who spend the time and money on a competitive career are in it to win. By the time they get to the major International competitions, they will have won some competitions (or placed high) in order to get those assignments. Those who love skating (and most do) will stay in to reach their goals, including those who have modified their goals to reality along the journey. Kimmie's story is different. She won a surprising Worlds' gold at the age of 16! This was only the second year of her senior career! And most of her major competitors were retiring (Cohen, Arakawa). It was a young career that looked extremely promising. Kimmie has been struggling ever since. Not making the GPF last year, ending up off the podium at 2007 Worlds. Squeaking by with the recent Skate America (with a flawed program beating out other flawed programs) followed by a distant last place in this GP final must be devastating. I don't think USFS, Kimmie or her family, or coaching staff expected this scenario two short years ago. It must be terribly difficulty for everyone to put this in perspective. Those at a distance can sometimes see the forest easier than the inner circle. I predict that unless Kimmie repeats her National's title in St. Paul, and reaches a podium at Worlds, there will be serious reassessments regarding her future. Once one has reached the mountain peak, it is difficult to dwell in the foothills
P. S. I'm also reminded of Katy Taylor, described as one of Kimmie's best friends during their Junior skating years. They were silver and bronze to Miki Ando's gold at World Junor Championships in 2004 (?) Very strange that all are experiencing such peaks and valleys in their senior careers.
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It is a little unsettling but I don't think it's QUITE time to say, ok, she's done. Let's see what happens at the Nationals first, and unless she completely collapses, she will be on the '08 team so let's throw in worlds as well. I want to give her another chance, but this time I'm doubtful.
The one thing that I kind of raised an eyebrow at, though, is that some poster said that she was struggling with jumps in practice (and I am assuming it's reliable info just for the sake of this argument). So this "meltdown", although somewhat surprising given the degree in which it occurred, isn't completely shocking or out of left field for me. the question should be, can she turn it around in six weeks?
Perhaps it may have even worked in her favor if she missed the final yet again this year.
The one thing that I kind of raised an eyebrow at, though, is that some poster said that she was struggling with jumps in practice (and I am assuming it's reliable info just for the sake of this argument). So this "meltdown", although somewhat surprising given the degree in which it occurred, isn't completely shocking or out of left field for me. the question should be, can she turn it around in six weeks?
Perhaps it may have even worked in her favor if she missed the final yet again this year.
Did I anger the skating gods by picking Kimmie 3rd? It's not like I said she would win easily.
Here's how I saw her jump passes:
3F, fall -- land-able
3Lz, fall -- land-able
2A+3T< -- 2A was okay. The 3T was her best of the season, IMO. It must have been a close call on the downgrade.
3Lz, fall -- unland-able, would've been downgraded by a strict caller
3Lo -- okay
3S -- sketchy
2A -- good
The technical panel here was definitely less strict than the ones at her two GP events (those were the strictest).
Well, at least Kimmie went for 5 different types of triples, including 2 triple lutzes. She is not that far off.
BTW, funny stuff about puberty, blooming, 'filling out', and such.
Here's how I saw her jump passes:
3F, fall -- land-able
3Lz, fall -- land-able
2A+3T< -- 2A was okay. The 3T was her best of the season, IMO. It must have been a close call on the downgrade.
3Lz, fall -- unland-able, would've been downgraded by a strict caller
3Lo -- okay
3S -- sketchy
2A -- good
The technical panel here was definitely less strict than the ones at her two GP events (those were the strictest).
Well, at least Kimmie went for 5 different types of triples, including 2 triple lutzes. She is not that far off.
BTW, funny stuff about puberty, blooming, 'filling out', and such.
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Eddie the thing is though that 99.9% of skaters eventually come accross someone who is better than they are. Somewhere in their careers. As the great Olympic champion Elena Davydova (gymanst) said everyone works hard, only one person wins. It's just life, no matter how good you are there is always going to be someone better than you. Unless you are that one special person (and even then, eventually someone will come up whose better than you)
If you can't handle the fire get out of the pot. Yes, maybe it sucks to be on top, and then not on top, but that's life. At least Kimmie had a moment on top, that's something most skaters never get. I don't feel sorry for Kimmie (although I do feel bad for her missing her jumps) that people came out who are better than her. I don't feel sorry for Mao that she learned that Yu-na with a fall can almost beat her, and I don't feel sorry for Yu-na if Mao eventually beats her that's sports and it's the risk you take when you lace up your boots.
If you can't handle the fire get out of the pot. Yes, maybe it sucks to be on top, and then not on top, but that's life. At least Kimmie had a moment on top, that's something most skaters never get. I don't feel sorry for Kimmie (although I do feel bad for her missing her jumps) that people came out who are better than her. I don't feel sorry for Mao that she learned that Yu-na with a fall can almost beat her, and I don't feel sorry for Yu-na if Mao eventually beats her that's sports and it's the risk you take when you lace up your boots.
Imo
I totally agree with Eddie Lee on this. I think she is done and her body HAS changed. If she is smart, she will got to college after one more year of skating (give it one last attempt if she wants to). She has declined steadily over the past few years. I mean that even if she wins nationals in 2008. She won't remain competitive unless she gets her jumps back and I don't see that happening. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
I totally agree with Eddie Lee on this. I think she is done and her body HAS changed. If she is smart, she will got to college after one more year of skating (give it one last attempt if she wants to). She has declined steadily over the past few years. I mean that even if she wins nationals in 2008. She won't remain competitive unless she gets her jumps back and I don't see that happening. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
So if she's smart, she'll skate 08/09, but not 09/10? She should give up another chance to attend the Olympics and why... because age 20 is over the hill?
What's fascinating to me is the RESPONSE to Kimmie's 3-fall "mini meltdown." Doomsday predictions over a few events. Look how badly Carolina has failed for a while, and she managed a GPF bronze. Kimmie has been a consistent competitor, not on the level of the asians, but certainly a force otherwise. Maybe it's nerves, training, body changes, or whatever. She has plenty of ability to change things and overcome it for next season.
Now, if she gets knocked off the podium at NATIONALS, you can start worrying...
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
The few years ago would pit her against Cohen and Kwan. I don't remember her in Dortmud. I think Jenny was there. Did she not win Novice that year? In her first years in Seniors (05) she was not in Moscow. Sixth in Olys 06. first in Worlds (06) and for 20007 gold and silver in GPs but a sinker in the GPF. I see the loss but I don't see the overall decline.
Would you also think that Miki Ando is done after that disasterous skate at COR? I kow the thread is about Kimmie, but she runs parallel to Miki.
I believe Internatiional Fans (those who don't hold on to a specific natioality) are anxiously awaiting to see more skating by Kimmie and Miki before writing them off.
Joe
Huh? Every young girl's body changes. Do you think Kimmie looked the same in 2006 as she did when she was a Junior in 2004? Of course not. Has her body changed again? Sure, but it's nothing she can't overcome.
Nobody should be written off after one bad skate. How quickly we forget that Kimmie had her best GP results ever this season, and claimed her first GP gold. This was her first time even at the Final!
How has she "declined steadily over of the past few years"? Few years? A few years ago, she was a Junior. I think Kimmie will be just fine. Her lutz is very good, and any issues with it may be attributed to the fact that she's trying to fix her flip.
Kimmie's a fierce competitor. I think she'll be just fine. You can't ever count her out. Why would you even suggest that she should quit skating a year before the Olympics? Makes no sense. You don't have to be a fan of hers, but why suggest things like that?
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So if she's smart, she'll skate 08/09, but not 09/10? She should give up another chance to attend the Olympics and why... because age 20 is over the hill?
What's fascinating to me is the RESPONSE to Kimmie's 3-fall "mini meltdown." Doomsday predictions over a few events. Look how badly Carolina has failed for a while, and she managed a GPF bronze. Kimmie has been a consistent competitor, not on the level of the asians, but certainly a force otherwise. Maybe it's nerves, training, body changes, or whatever. She has plenty of ability to change things and overcome it for next season.
Now, if she gets knocked off the podium at NATIONALS, you can start worrying...
agreed. It's just too soon to spell doom and gloom just yet. However, I don't blame the fans for being concerned about her.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2006
first post!
Long time lurker, first time poster and former novice skater here.
1 point: Alot has been said on this forum and in this thread about the dominance of Asian or Asian-American skaters and how this can be attributed to body type. While I think that there is SOME degree of truth to that, It's very frustrating to me that very little analysis seems to go into other aspects that might make them dominant in the sport. For example, almost half of Asians living in the US live in California, which we all know to have numerous rinks and established coaches. Also, the average Asian-American family is better off economically than every other racial group, and again, we all know skating requires a high level of committment financially. We also all sometimes seem to forget the impact of Michelle Kwan on the generation of young Asian-American girls/Asian girls coming up today. Any girl under the age of like, 15, who skates would have had Michelle as a dominant fixture in the sport throughout her lifetime. That's a pretty strong role model to have for a group that's underrepresented in basically every other aspect of the media. As for girls outside the US, well how is it a suprise that girls from wealthy,stable nations like Japan and South Korea can become world class athletes? It's not like the anatomy of Russian girls or Eastern European girls have changed.
I'm sure someone has mentioned all of this before, I'd just like to reiterate a point before we all decide that every Asian ethnic girl who enters the rink will succeed based on body type. Elisabeth Kwon anyone? Wasn't she our big hope for the future with her reported triple axel in practice as a Junior back in 1998? Who? Exactly.
2 point on topic: I'm not a fan of Kimmie Meissner and although I know she's a sweet girl, I think she can be criticized based on performance just the same as any other skater. She isn't a natural talent, she's a hard worker. That's not an insult, infact its incredibly commendable since the US has ran through more than its share of Nicole Bobeks who can't seem to spend more than an hour on the ice a week. I think Meissner's career isn't over, and it's still a damn good place to be when you're one of the top 10 in the world. I've seen the arguments about her win at Worlds and I agree that it was probably one of the weakest fields of that competition in years. But ultimately that doesn't matter, she could have skated against monkeys on roller blades, but as long as a competition is ISU sanctioned and someone comes out the winner, all of the other minutae is pretty trivial. I also agree with some posters' comments in other threads that the USFSA was so desperate to hold up a fresh face for the future of skating that Meissner got away with a bit more than she should have based on her technical merits. Her artistry has improved this year and that's great, but frankly it's a little too late. I hope she proves me wrong, because I'd like the US to have three spots so TV figure skating coverage doesn't have another reason to get shafted yet again. What happened in the GPF? She had a bad skate and she was outclassed by at least two of the other women there. If she hadn't have had such a bad skate I think she still would have been serious competition for Nakano, Koster, and Zhang.
Arguing about what the problem is seems silly because none of us can really know unless we talk to her doctors or bribe her therapist, lets argue about what she should do to be a contender again.
Coaching change? Wait it out? More sequins?
Long time lurker, first time poster and former novice skater here.
1 point: Alot has been said on this forum and in this thread about the dominance of Asian or Asian-American skaters and how this can be attributed to body type. While I think that there is SOME degree of truth to that, It's very frustrating to me that very little analysis seems to go into other aspects that might make them dominant in the sport. For example, almost half of Asians living in the US live in California, which we all know to have numerous rinks and established coaches. Also, the average Asian-American family is better off economically than every other racial group, and again, we all know skating requires a high level of committment financially. We also all sometimes seem to forget the impact of Michelle Kwan on the generation of young Asian-American girls/Asian girls coming up today. Any girl under the age of like, 15, who skates would have had Michelle as a dominant fixture in the sport throughout her lifetime. That's a pretty strong role model to have for a group that's underrepresented in basically every other aspect of the media. As for girls outside the US, well how is it a suprise that girls from wealthy,stable nations like Japan and South Korea can become world class athletes? It's not like the anatomy of Russian girls or Eastern European girls have changed.
I'm sure someone has mentioned all of this before, I'd just like to reiterate a point before we all decide that every Asian ethnic girl who enters the rink will succeed based on body type. Elisabeth Kwon anyone? Wasn't she our big hope for the future with her reported triple axel in practice as a Junior back in 1998? Who? Exactly.
2 point on topic: I'm not a fan of Kimmie Meissner and although I know she's a sweet girl, I think she can be criticized based on performance just the same as any other skater. She isn't a natural talent, she's a hard worker. That's not an insult, infact its incredibly commendable since the US has ran through more than its share of Nicole Bobeks who can't seem to spend more than an hour on the ice a week. I think Meissner's career isn't over, and it's still a damn good place to be when you're one of the top 10 in the world. I've seen the arguments about her win at Worlds and I agree that it was probably one of the weakest fields of that competition in years. But ultimately that doesn't matter, she could have skated against monkeys on roller blades, but as long as a competition is ISU sanctioned and someone comes out the winner, all of the other minutae is pretty trivial. I also agree with some posters' comments in other threads that the USFSA was so desperate to hold up a fresh face for the future of skating that Meissner got away with a bit more than she should have based on her technical merits. Her artistry has improved this year and that's great, but frankly it's a little too late. I hope she proves me wrong, because I'd like the US to have three spots so TV figure skating coverage doesn't have another reason to get shafted yet again. What happened in the GPF? She had a bad skate and she was outclassed by at least two of the other women there. If she hadn't have had such a bad skate I think she still would have been serious competition for Nakano, Koster, and Zhang.
Arguing about what the problem is seems silly because none of us can really know unless we talk to her doctors or bribe her therapist, lets argue about what she should do to be a contender again.
Coaching change? Wait it out? More sequins?- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
Great observations first-time poster!
About the sequin thing - you may be on to something, seriously.....I have always felt that Kimmie's costumes, while tastefully bejewelled and probably expensive, were always too much like an all-occasion evening dress. Didn't matter what the music was - the dress would do.
Michelle, Sasha, Irina etc. all had distinctive costumes for the most part, that went with the music and the story they were portraying on the ice. All the men wear great costumes that make a statement (even if they look like an overgrown giraffee or a plucked swan lol).
Instead of looking like a wallflower on ice, Kimmie should command the ice and the crowd with a dynamic costume and great choreography that breaks away from her comfort zone.
About the sequin thing - you may be on to something, seriously.....I have always felt that Kimmie's costumes, while tastefully bejewelled and probably expensive, were always too much like an all-occasion evening dress. Didn't matter what the music was - the dress would do.
Michelle, Sasha, Irina etc. all had distinctive costumes for the most part, that went with the music and the story they were portraying on the ice. All the men wear great costumes that make a statement (even if they look like an overgrown giraffee or a plucked swan lol).
Instead of looking like a wallflower on ice, Kimmie should command the ice and the crowd with a dynamic costume and great choreography that breaks away from her comfort zone.
