Which two for World Team

[Tonichelle]

IIRC it was a little more complicated than that. Nancy Kerrigan petitioned (successfully) to be on the Olympic team, citing injury.

Tonya Harding won the U.S. championship, with Michelle Kwan second. The USFSA wanted to take away Tonya's title and kick her off the Olympic team for her part in the conspiracy to assault Kerrigan. Harding's legal team threatened to sue the USFSA if they did. So they let Tonya particpate, and Michelle was out.

Later as part of Tonya's plea barganining it was agreed that the U.S. title would be vacated. So, after the fact, there was no U.S. champion that year (and Michelle ended up with only 9 U.S. titles instead of 10. )

I was trying to AVOID the whole court mess that was Harding's life at that point - which is why I posted the vague comment that I did lol. She had a killer legal team, that's all I'll say.

 

[PolymerBob]

By now, we've all heard of the new rules which allow USFSA to use all sorts of criteria to decide whom to send to international comps. But my understanding is these rules go into effect next year. So gentle readers, whoever wins Nationals goes to Worlds, period. The only choice USFSA will make concerns the second spot. The smart thing to do will be to send Miss 2nd, Miss 3rd and Miss 4th to Four Continents to see how they fare in front of international judges.

 

[Alsace]

The smart thing to do will be to send Miss 2nd, Miss 3rd and Miss 4th to Four Continents to see how they fare in front of international judges.

A skate-off at an international competition is something the USFSA has never done. It would be interesting to see them try it.

 

[samba]

My prediction is Flatt and Wagner for the top two spots. Flatt has been more consistent on her jumps and Wagner has been making progress since switched to Priscilla Hill. You can see that she transformed Ashley to a better skater, on her look and skating skills. I hope that by next January, Ashley will be more consistent in LP, not only SP. I like what I saw at NHK . Mirai and Caroline have lots of work to fix their jumps. They could get downgrade badly, same as Kimmie.

 

[flying camel]

A skate-off at an international competition is something the USFSA has never done. It would be interesting to see them try it.

I actually think that would be worth a try for maybe the girls who place 2nd & 3rd to have a skate off. I guess it would have to be four continents.

 

[R.D.]

A skate-off at an international competition is something the USFSA has never done. It would be interesting to see them try it.

I think an exception might have to be made this year. There is a lot at stake now.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the rules have changed since I was corrected in a recent post. The USFS has total control of sending the two skaters to Worlds and is not obligated to send the Nats winner.

Since I am not a member of their Think Tank, I'm really predicting what they may come up with. Certainly it will be Zhang. She is the bailerina-like skater which most fans enjoy and moreso expect from a lady skater. The second one would have to be anti bailerina type to balance off the pros and cons of style. In that respect I think they would like Rachael Flatt. That's whom I think they will choose provided they both skate their best at Nats.

I have no reason to select the team at this point but will wait till I see them skate in Cleveland and probably argue with their selection because I'm not a big fan of judges' judgements.

 

[Mathman]

The USFSA by-laws require that the national champion be sent to Worlds. The criteria for chosing the second representative are:

Placement in the last two National Championships;
Placement at last year's Worlds;
Placement at the "most recent" Four Continents (that usually means last year's, but I suppose they could hold off on making the selection until this year's became the "most recent");
Placement in other international events; and is also based on
"The current USFSA International Committee Ranking System placements" (I'm not sure what this system takes into account).

None of the American girls placed well at last year's Worlds, won Four Continents, showed much in the Grand Prix, or did any of the things that might command special attention. The best is Rachael with a Junior Worlds title, second at 2008 Nationals, and respectable Grand Prix results. I doubt if this would be enough to set aside the silver medalist at 2009 Nationals, though.

 

[Bill508]

Certainly not Kimmie or Emily which would give the USA a zero chance of being on the podium. Sadly, not much to choose from considering the competition but I guess Flatt and Wagner.

 

[visaliakid]

I would like to see USFS decide to use Four Continents as a skateoff if they are undecided after nationals. National Champ by rule earns a place on the World Team but the second lady may not be best one to send, depending on Nationals results.

IMO Caroline and Mirai should not even be in the picture... both having very rough seasons this year...Katrina Hacker is not at the level needed to help secure three slots for the Olympics next season... neither is Alissa unfortunately.

I think Ashley Wagner is our best skater of the girls so far and I am hoping she wins nationals. Next best I would say is Rachel Flatt at this point. If Sasha were to come back to compete at Nationals next month (which she still gets a bye to as an Olympic Medalist in 2006) that would certainly help the U.S. situation. Getting the magic number 13 or lower has to be earned in Los Angeles. Ashley would be the best choice of our currently active competitors.

 

[ChrisH]

... I doubt if this would be enough to set aside the silver medalist at 2009 Nationals, though.

The criteria are too iffy for Caroline and Kimmie. They both need to win or at least blow away the rest of the competition if either are the silver medalist.

 

[gold12345]

I would hope that Nationals would be good enough to determine who should go. If not, I think it would be okay to use Four Continents to determine the team, but then I would be worried about the skaters peaking too early just to get on the World team, rather than having enough in the tank for the competition that is truly critical, Worlds.

Here, my new Kimmie video, we need somethin cheery not to stress us out, coz seriously none of our girls except for Rachel, who flutzes seem reliable.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7kd2u_kimmie-running-out-of-time_sport

Nice video. Where did you get the footage of Kimmie's LP from CoR? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

 

[McWicked]

Nice video. Where did you get the footage of Kimmie's LP from CoR? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

I recorded it.

 

[R.D.]

I thought the National rules were changed so that the champion is no longer guaranteed a place on the world team.

 

[feraina]

IMO Caroline and Mirai should not even be in the picture... both having very rough seasons this year...

The criteria are too iffy for Caroline and Kimmie. They both need to win or at least blow away the rest of the competition if either are the silver medalist.

I don't know why people are so pessimistic about Caroline. Mirai and Kimmie, I can understand, since they are both having serious jumping problems despite obvious improvements in presentation. Caroline twisted her ankle and also had tendonitis leading up to SC, so she actually did pretty well considering her inability to practice triples for weeks. At TEB, she made a mistake in the SP (skipping the 2A) and had low levels on her spins and spiral sequence (a problem she's often had early in the season), but had a good LP skate that was basically clean (except for the downgraded 3F-3T).

I agree that Rachael has been one of the most reliable ladies this season, and she obviously got the highest placement (silver) as well as the highest total score (I think). But I don't think she's so far ahead of Caroline. Their PCS are comparable, they both flutz, they are the only two US ladies attempting 3-3's, and they each got one 3-3 ratified so far. Rachael popped two jumps in the LP at SA and fell out of a jump in the SP at CoR. Caroline fell twice and popped a jump at SC, and skipped a 2A at TEB, so in terms of execution of jumps, perhaps Rachael has been a little more consistent (though again, Caroline was coming out of injuries at SC). In terms of spins, Caroline gets higher GOE's, so she's a little ahead there. Also, Caroline is the ONLY American lady who has attempted 7 triples this year. Rachael attempted 4 at SA, and 6 at CoR.

I would say that these two are the front runners among the US ladies, and they are both showing improvements over the season.

Ashley is also showing lots of improvements this season, especially in presentation, which is reflected in her higher PCS. But her jumps are lower and more UR'ed than ever. I think she has stamina problems or something, because both her LP's lost energy (and the jumps became more UR'ed) toward the end. Until she can overcome this problem, I wouldn't put her on top of the pile. The others, Kimmie and Alissa, seem to be getting worse over the course of the season. Alissa started the season very strong, both technically and in terms of presentation, but seemed to have peaked even before her first GP, and is now "falling" back into her usual self.

Anyway, there are still two long months until National's, so anything can still happen. Last year, Mirai, Rachael, and Ashley all got much better in the interval, while Caroline & Kimmie got worse. So we'll see!

 

[Sylvia]

I thought the National rules were changed so that the champion is no longer guaranteed a place on the world team.

No, that's the 2010 Olympic team selection criterion that was revised -- see:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25073

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

MM. I had thought the rule changed since I mentioned what you said about winning US Nats, but if it is still valid, then we should be talking about who will win the Nats. I like Zhang but I do not see her as a shoe-in. I like Wagner because she is gutsy. I like Rachael because she takes criticism and works on it. I like Alyssa who is arguably the most beautiful skater but, you know what happens. I like Mirai because she is delightful.

Which one will get the easy road to Worlds after Nats? I dunno.

The choosing of the second one, only the USFS team will argue that, and we all will argue their decision.

BTW. How do skaters qualify for the 4CC? Can anyone go?

 

[Sylvia]

How do skaters qualify for the 4CC? Can anyone go?

Usually USFS will offer 4CC to the top 3 age-eligible finishers in each discipline at Nationals and it's up to the skaters to decide whether or not they want to compete there.

 

[dorispulaski]

I don't know why people are so pessimistic about Caroline. !

I wasn't until I saw the really strange jump technique she used at TEB. If you haven't seen it, it is way different (and worse) than last year. I'm just hoping she can fix whatever has gone so terribly wrong by nationals.

As to Rachael:
Cup of Russia:
No jump errors listed in the short, other than a problem with the landing of the 3F. (no UR or flutz)

http://www.isuresults.org/results/gprus08/gprus08_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

No jump errors listed in the LP either (plus she had by far the highest base score and TES for the event)
http://www.isuresults.org/results/gprus08/gprus08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Earlier at Skate America, she had some problems , a UR on the 3F in the SP and a slight flutz (the ! kind) on the lutzes in both programs:
http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf
http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa08/gpusa08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Either the caller at COR was more lenient, or Rachael improved enough between SA & COR not to get the call.

I'm thinking Rachael, for the consistency, needs to be one of the two going to worlds.

As to how her base score 60.78/TES 60.86 compares:
Caroline's best outing was TEB
Caroline TEB base score 53.78/TES 55.66

YuNa Skate America base score 57.75/TES 63.95
Joannie Skate Canada base score 57.21/TES 63.99
YuNa Cup of China base score 59.53/TES 66.43
Joannie TEB base score 55.09/TES 60.87
Carolina Cup of Russia base score 58.38/TES 56.22
Mao NHK base score 56.65/TES 64.25

So Rachael's got the skills-she just needs to add some speed and ( and some reputation to up the PCS) and she's right in there. In fact she's completed the highest base score of the year so far.

Plus Rachael is always a skater who peaks at the end of the year.

For the other, either Ashley or Caroline, whichever does better at Nationals.

 

[ManyCairns]

I'm thinking Rachael, for the consistency, needs to be one of the two going to worlds.

As to how her base score 60.78/TES 60.86 compares:
Caroline's best outing was TEB
Caroline TEB base score 53.78/TES 55.66

YuNa Skate America base score 57.75/TES 63.95
Joannie Skate Canada base score 57.21/TES 63.99
YuNa Cup of China base score 59.53/TES 66.43
Joannie TEB base score 55.09/TES 60.87
Carolina Cup of Russia base score 58.38/TES 56.22
Mao NHK base score 56.65/TES 64.25

So Rachael's got the skills-she just needs to add some speed and ( and some reputation to up the PCS) and she's right in there. In fact she's completed the highest base score of the year so far.

Plus Rachael is always a skater who peaks at the end of the year.

D*mn, I knew I liked this kid, and now I know part of the reason why! I hadn't noticed her base value was so good.