Who is DOOMED next season?

[jennylovskt]

I'll admit it - I was thinking that Jeff Buttle was doomed - that he'd never equal his Olympic silver medal performance again. I'd say to my husband "Stick a fork in him, he's done".

Boy was I wrong!

I, therefore, will not predict doom for anyone else heretofore.

Linny

Jeffrey Buttle had won 2005 World silver and 2006 Olympics bronze. Those were the highest achievement before his this year's World gold medal.

Evan Lysacek isn't Canadian and he uses his programs for more than a season. most of the time... for him it works, IMHO.
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That was why Evan was called "Boring" by many on the internet. I hope he could shake off that name.

 

[Tonichelle]

Evan's considered boring even when he changes up the music. People will like whom and what they please. I don't think he loses sleep over it, though.

 

[merrybari]

In 2005-06, Evan introduced "Carmen" mid-season, so only used it for a season and a half. Continuing with it the following season, IMO, allowed it to reach it's full potential - magnificently - instead of abandoning it before then just for the sake of doing something new. Prior to that his FS programs were new every year.

I don't think there's anything wrong in repeating a program if a skater feels there's still more he/she can do with it - take it to another level of performance.

With the CoP I think it's a judgement call for each competitor to decide how best to maximize their opportunities. If that means continuing to improve a current program, that's fine with me. If it means returning to an old one mid-season because the "new" one isn't working, well, frankly from a competitive point of view, that makes sense. Why would they want to keep skating to something that doesn't work?

BTW: I quite agree, I don't think he loses any sleep over it either.

 

[Tonichelle]

he's been pretty notorious for using the same SP music over and over, though he didn't re use either this season - just seemed to reuse themes and choreography....

I only mentioned Evan not to say 'hey we allow him' because I don't see that at all, many people complained about Carmen being reused. I was just using him as an example who uses programs over and over.

 

[hockeyfan228]

IMHO the irony was that Berezhnaya and Sikharudlidze were the ones than should have gone back to their previous year's program, Charlie Chaplin. This was their signature masterpiece (IMHO), while Meditation was little more that generic pairs blah.

A duel between Charlie Chaplin and Orchid would have been awesome!

"Meditation" was a re-hash of choreography and images (ex: he in spiral, she in spread eagle with flexed back) that Moskvina had given B/S for years, with some of the most egregious musical cuts I've heard in skating, where there have been many rivals. It even included the flip-over circusy lift that was completely out of character with the choreography and music, but it was one they knew.

"Chaplin," on the other hand, was a masterwork, and the greatest pairs performance I've ever seen was theirs at 2001 Cup of Russia.

I agree that "Chaplin" vs. "Orchid" would have been awesome and ideal from a spectator's standpoint, if not a competitive one.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

"Meditation" was a re-hash of choreography and images (ex: he in spiral, she in spread eagle with flexed back) that Moskvina had given B/S for years, with some of the most egregious musical cuts I've heard in skating, where there have been many rivals.

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umm....Actually, they didn't make a single cut to that piece of music. It just ran uninterrupted from start to finish, and that's what they did for La Cena from Lady Califfa for their short program too. They didn't make any cut to their music whatsoever that olympic season.

 

[Mathman]

^ In my opinion, what gives that intermezzo its charm is the saccharin lament of the almost unaccompanied solo violin. The version that B&S used was way over-orchestrated, to me.

 

[chuckm]

Many people complained about Lysacek using "Carmen" for a second season because it is very unusual for US skaters to do a FS for a second year. But Evan had also had the same SP for 3 seasons in a row. Some skaters (Sasha, for example) would use the same SP for 2 seasons, but she never repeated a FS.

Some US skaters who've never made it out of Nationals to Worlds have used programs over and over again (Derrick Delmore, for example) but as these skaters haven't even skated in a GP, the only people aware of it are US fans.

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm a huge American fan and I loved Carmen... and I was hoping and very happy when Johnny pulled Otonal out and used it again...

it was acceptable to reuse programs/music in the 70s and 80s and even the 90s... it's not *just* a Canadian thing and it's not something Americans are immune to. Or Russians. Or anyone else

 

[Fozzie Bear]

^^Actually, he skated to that SP for 4 seasons, a whole Olympic cycle. :frown2:

I loved both of B/S's Mediation, though I agree that the City Lights program was a cut above. Probably would have elicited a bigger response from the audience with that program (which probably would've influenced the judges subconciously, I think). If they loved the schmaltz of Love Story, they would have gone wild for Chaplin.

Anyway, what was this thread about again?

 

[hockeyfan228]

umm....Actually, they didn't make a single cut to that piece of music. It just ran uninterrupted from start to finish, and that's what they did for La Cena from Lady Califfa for their short program too. They didn't make any cut to their music whatsoever that olympic season.

The ending was grafted on. Their musical cut is not the way "Meditation" ends, and the grafting was awkward and blew off the structure. Moskvina added a false ending.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

"Meditation" was a re-hash of choreography and images (ex: he in spiral, she in spread eagle with flexed back) that Moskvina had given B/S for years.

In regards to this, who doesn't recycle their elements? All G & G's elements stayed EXACTLY the same throughout their career, only their choreography was different.

The ending was grafted on. Their musical cut is not the way "Meditation" ends, and the grafting was awkward and blew off the structure. Moskvina added a false ending.

I think she jazzed it up just for the olympics. Yeah, that was some unfortunate synthesizing work that was done there. But she didn't cut any piece of music out. that's what I was just saying.

 

[Particle Man]

I would suggest an 80% score for Tech and a 20% score for presentation and forget about all those PCS categories.

Woo hoo! Worst idea I've ever heard!

The sport is already being killed because artistry doesn't matter as much as it did under 6.0. Your solution is to kill artistry further. Brilliant. Maybe we should ditch the pretense of a program entirely, and just have a jumping contest?

 

[Tonichelle]

artistry was just as subjective under the 6.0 system as it is now....

as long as you have that mark, you're not going to have true sport, it's just a beauty pagent/popularity contest on ice.

 

[debdelilah]

artistry was just as subjective under the 6.0 system as it is now....

as long as you have that mark, you're not going to have true sport, it's just a beauty pagent/popularity contest on ice.

There are many options for people who just want to watch "true sport"--most things on espn, for instance. Many things in the Olympics. Speedskating.
Take away the artistic mark, and you take away the music as well as any attempt to interpret it...it would cease to matter.

 

[museksk8r]

BTW, what is it with the Canadian skaters? Except for Mira Leung, they all repeated programs from last season. It seems as if they keep the program for a second season because then they get comfortable with it by its second presentation at Worlds.

I get the feeling that we will see new programs next season from Buttle, Rochette and D/D, but then they will keep the same programs for the Olympics, so as to give themselves an edge over the other skaters.

But that could backfire. Olympic judges tend to expect new programs for the Olympic season ..... :frown2:

Most top skaters don't repeat programs. Thank goodness, because imagine how boring it would be if ALL the skaters did the same as the Canadians.

Why complain as if the Canadians are the only nation to repeat programs? Lysacek repeated Carmen in '07, Lambiel repeated Poeta albeit after only 1 international outing with it in '07 at the Worlds, Van Der Perren repeated his LP at this year's Worlds from a previous season, Joubert repeated Matrix in '06, Butyrskaya was known to repeat programs, Kwan repeated her Rach SP and skated to various East of Eden edits for more than one season, Shen/Zhao repeated their Turandot LP in '03, Slutskaya's '05 LP was a repeat, Arakawa's '06 Olympic LP was a repeat, Kostner repeated her Pachelbel's Canon SP over many seasons, Ando repeated her Scheherazade SP and Firebird LP over a couple of seasons, Baiul's '94 Olympic LP was a repeat, and Cohen certainly repeated music over many seasons as well. Do you not consider them as top skaters because they repeated their programs? Many skaters from many nations do it . . . why must you always fish for some bogus reason to rag on the Canadian team? Jealous of their success, much?

 

[jyshin]

I would love to see Lamibiel repeating his LP again

 

[chuckm]

Why complain as if the Canadians are the only nation to repeat programs? Lysacek repeated Carmen in '07, Lambiel repeated Poeta albeit after only 1 international outing with it in '07 at the Worlds, Van Der Perren repeated his LP at this year's Worlds from a previous season, Joubert repeated Matrix in '06, Butyrskaya was known to repeat programs, Kwan repeated her Rach SP and skated to various East of Eden edits for more than one season, Shen/Zhao repeated their Turandot LP in '03, Slutskaya's '05 LP was a repeat, Arakawa's '06 Olympic LP was a repeat, Kostner repeated her Pachelbel's Canon SP over many seasons, Ando repeated her Scheherazade SP and Firebird LP over a couple of seasons, Baiul's '94 Olympic LP was a repeat, and Cohen certainly repeated music over many seasons as well. Do you not consider them as top skaters because they repeated their programs? Many skaters from many nations do it . . . why must you always fish for some bogus reason to rag on the Canadian team? Jealous of their success, much?

As I said previously, Lysacek was lambasted on the boards because of his repeats.

Van Der Perren hadn't competed at Worlds since 2005; Slutskaya repeated programs in 2005 that she hadn't been able to skate well in 2004 due to her illness.

MANY skaters repeat SPs and there is no problem with that. It's repeating free skates that is somewhat unusual. And if I singled out the Canadians, is was that so MANY Canadian skaters were repeating free skates this season: both men, Joannie Rochette and Dube/Davison. And that is very unusual.

 

[museksk8r]

Slutskaya repeated programs in 2005 that she hadn't been able to skate well in 2004 due to her illness.

Yes, I know that, but the same applies for Buttle and Dube/Davison, yet you conveniently neglect the fact that they were suffering from injuries and freak accidents, which took them out of competitions during the season and caused them to lose training time in 2007. You excuse Irina, but not them . . . why is that?

 

[chuckm]

Yes, I know that, but the same applies for Buttle and Dube/Davison, yet you conveniently neglect the fact that they were suffering from injuries and freak accidents, which took them out of competitions during the season and caused them to lose training time in 2007. You excuse Irina, but not them . . . why is that?

Buttle and D/D are only two of the repeaters. Chan and Rochette had no injuries or illnesses, either, but they repeated their FSs as well.

All I can say is I hope all the Canadian singles and pairs skaters come up with interesting programs for the forthcoming season, because we will likely be seeing them again for the Olympic season as well.